What changes do you expect?

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by donttreadonred on Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:58 pm

I'm not nearly as pessimistic about Markovic's future as some on this forum. I thought he had several good performances last season despite his obvious misuse, and his talent is undeniable. As for his attitude, I obviously can't attest to that. however, I would say that it would be easy for anyone to become disillusioned when being played sporadically, out of position, and being made a scapegoat more often than not.

It should be obvious that Klopp will adapt his approach for each new situation he moves into. No elite manager has one single approach to every match and every job. However, we can extrapolate gross generalities from his previous seasons at Dortmund, which was my intent in my previous post. He will likely setup in a similar fashion (roughly 4-2-3-1), but with a twist to suit his Liverpool squad. What will be more interesting to see is the direction after Klopp has had two-three transfer windows to put his mark on this squad.

As for the positional battles:
- GK: I have a hard time seeing Mignolet as a Klopp-style keeper. If he sorts himself out and takes his chance, he amy well stay. My gut feeling just says that he wont… purely my opinion. Kudos to him if he proves me wrong.
- DM: Perhaps the term was somewhat misleading. Klopp doesn’t necessarily use a “DM” in the sense of a deep-sitting controller, ala Busquets and Makelele. However, he has used (wuite frequently) a physical, sudo-destroyer type midfielder. I don’t mean to slag off Bender by using those loaded terms. However, I would say that the roles were far more specialized in his Dortmund sides than we will be capable of replicating at Liverpool (at least in the immediate future.
- Sturridge, Benteke, and Ings: The use of these three players will be interesting to see. My personal opinion is that Sturridge is the obvious choice for the #9 position. He’s more mobile, has better vision, and can finish as well as anyone in England. However, reports that Klopp fancied Benteke while at Dortmund might suggest that our (elder) Belgian isn’t necessarily Klopp’s Andy Carroll. Perhaps shouts for Benteke at the #9 and Sturridge in the “Reus” role aren’t too far off base. Then, of course, Danny Ings has only come in and scored several important goals in recent weeks and must be considered the “in-form” striker. How does he fit into Klopp’s vision? Only time will truly tell.

Please don’t confuse my excitement for naïveté. I fully understand that things will not change immediately. That said, I wouldn’t rule out anything for this season. The league is not particularly strong, and there are no standout performers. Arsenal and City are the closest thing to powerhouses at the moment, and both have shown their faults in the relatively small sampling of fixtures to date.

The thing that Klopp brings is “hope” and experience setting up a sustainable structure at a club. Despite all of our issues, Liverpool are much further along than Dortmund when he took over. Assuming he is given the tools and purview to affect changes, he should have every chance of replicating Dortmund’s success in time and possibly exceeding it. Here’s hoping that comes to pass.

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Red Alert on Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:11 am

Changes?

Let's see...

Positive football.
He'll give us a winning mentality.
He'll bring the 12th man back.
Gegenpressing or whatever it's called.
Players will go back to playing with confidence.
Committee gone; DoF in charge?

I really can go on. Sacking Rodgers and hiring Klopp has literally no negatives. Unless you want to count that we didn't make the switch earlier....


Last edited by Red Alert on Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Lucifer on Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:21 am

Also wasn't Can supposed to be next Gerard. Would lyk more responsibilities on him.
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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Don't call me James on Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:25 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
BVB was in terrible shape when Klopp took over. It's easy to forget this but it's no comparison to present day Liverpool.

For Liverpool fans, the only thing to do now is to be 100% happy. No other emotion necessary. You get the best possible manager you could get. No ifs and buts. 100% happiness.

Allow yourselves to be happy, god is smiling at you, you miserable bastards.


Hans you beautiful bastard Proud

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Helmer on Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:44 am

@Red Alert wrote:Changes?

Let's see...

Positive football.
He'll give us a winning mentality.
He'll bring the 12th man back.
Gegenpressing or whatever it's called.
Players will go back to playing with confidence.
Committee gone; DoF in charge?

I really can go on. Sacking Rodgers and hiring Klopp has literally no negatives. Unless you want to count that we didn't make the switch....

I am not too sure about that!

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by mr-r34 on Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:44 am

Pirloisjesus wrote:Also wasn't Can supposed to be next Gerard. Would lyk more responsibilities on him.


What Lol, yeah Okay.

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Art Morte on Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:35 am

Can was supposed to be the new Lucas (or just a new DM) and ideally that's where I'd like him to succeed, but I have become worried about his defensive lapses and average defensive reading of the game. Right now I see Henderson's, Milner's, Can's (and Allen's) best positions as pure CMs with Lucas the only truly defensive-minded midfielder at the club. We'll see if that changes under Klopp.
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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Helmer on Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:43 am

Pirloisjesus wrote:Also wasn't Can supposed to be next Gerard. Would lyk more responsibilities on him.

Can really needs good coaching otherwise his talent is going to go waste.

I think under Klopp he suits second best for the Bender role after Henderson.

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Lucifer on Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:54 am

@Helmer wrote:
Pirloisjesus wrote:Also wasn't Can supposed to be next Gerard. Would lyk more responsibilities on him.

Can really needs good coaching otherwise his talent is going to go waste.

I think under Klopp he suits second best for the Bender role after Henderson.
he is indeed massively talented wouldn't mind him leading in midfield
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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Red Alert on Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:30 am

Can was always going to be an understudy for Henderson as a box-to-box alas more defensive minded.*


So naturally we just played him as a CB / RB.


*NOTE: NOT A DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER.

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Red Alert on Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:32 am

@Helmer wrote:
@Red Alert wrote:Changes?

Let's see...

Positive football.
He'll give us a winning mentality.
He'll bring the 12th man back.
Gegenpressing or whatever it's called.
Players will go back to playing with confidence.
Committee gone; DoF in charge?

I really can go on. Sacking Rodgers and hiring Klopp has literally no negatives. Unless you want to count that we didn't make the switch....

I am not too sure about that!


FSG always wanted a DoF.

Only reason this "committee" was made because of Rodgers. lol

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Helmer on Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:39 am

I know mate but who would you appoint as DoF ? Specially whether it depends on with Klopp wants to work or it depends upon FSG want someone of their choice. So I dont see an immediate appointment of DoF.
And also it seems like FSG trust in the committee by now

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Red Alert on Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:45 am

There's not much happening to say that the committee is working though.

I have full faith whatever happens it'll be under the decision of Klopp. If he wants a DoF, he'll get one. If he wants to keep this committee, well let's just hope they fix the internal issues and break that trust between them and the manager. Everyone should be on the same page.

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by donttreadonred on Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:59 pm

I think the whole discussion surrounding a DoF vs "The Committee" is really arguing a variation on the same point. Do we really believe that a DoF personally scouts every single player? Would he not have some sort of advisory group (at the risk of sounding like something out of the Lord of the Rings, I'm leaning toward the term council...) consisting of scouts and knowledgeable individuals that would recommend players? Is that not the concept behind "The Committee"? Now we can certainly discuss the effectiveness of the individuals on the  committee, but the setup really isn't all that odd. The only difference between the committee and a DoF setup is a prominent footballing figure at the head of the group to do the decision-making and impose an over-arching strategy to the transfers.

While Rodgers was at the club, he was attempting to serve as some strange amalgamation of the two roles (manager & DoF). He certainly wasn't in the classic, all-powerful manager role, signing players on a whim and generally being all things Harry Redknapp. Instead, he was working under the advice (and sometimes against the advice) of a group of individuals (The Committee), theoretically funneling the advice into a coherent transfer strategy and imposing general direction in the overhaul of the squad. In reality, he ended up pushing back against their recommendations and refusing to play the suggested players.

My personal belief is that The Committee will stay. However, I don't think Klopp will have much of an issue with the group. It should be fairly similar to the structure he worked under at Dortmund, and it's a similar structure to what's found in most "front-office" setups across Europe. The only question here is whether a single, prominent individual is appointed to lead the group and give it clear direction and a single point of contact with the manager/media/ownership/etc. Would I be in favor of it: sure. I think it streamlines the process and lends an additional degree of responsibility to the committee. However, I'm not convinced that the position is a necessity, especially with a more experienced manager in place.

As for Can, I'm not convinced he was brought in to replace anyone. I think he was brought in as a young, high-upside player that fit in a position (CM) where the squad was aging and would soon have a fair amount of turnover. Nothing more, nothing less.

My feelings on Can are that he is a blank canvas at the moment. He has the physical tools and the skills to play in almost any role across midfield and defense. However, he's not necessarily been coached into any single role, and his performance in specific roles has suffered to an extent because of it. MY guess would be that Klopp will see Emre as an incredibly opportunity to mold a player into exactly what he needs. Therefore, I could imagine Can being a player that Klopp installs as a central feature in midfield and builds the squad around.

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:41 pm

^As always, an excellent, comprehensive, superbly written post.

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by iftikhar on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:31 pm

The theory behind “the committee” (Jeez, if I replace the C with K, it will sound right out of Pravda 1950) was to create synergy from collective wisdom. The philosophy of the manager infused with knowledge of the scouting team and polished with the financial acumen of the CEO was supposed to get the most suitable talent for the best price. The key driver in this case is Collaboration.

In my view, the system should have worked like as follows. The manager says “I want one of Art, Albert and Arqu for position X”. The committee does the groundwork and says, “Look, we can’t afford Art but we will get you Albert”. On the flipside the committee says “We got Helmer, James and Cujo who look really promising”. The manager does his homework and says “Yap, Cujo can be useful”.

But what happened in reality was compromise, which in effect neutralised the knowledgebase of all involved parties. The manager had a bunch from his list and the committee had a bunch from theirs. And as it always happens with dual-rule, nothing happened aside wastage.
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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Nishankly on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:40 pm

I want a strong team to play in the EL matches.
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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Red Alert on Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:08 am

@Nishankly wrote:I want a strong team to play in the EL matches.


It won't be treated as a joke that's for sure.

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Curtinho on Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:45 pm

If we're assuming that Klopp is going to try and implement the same style that brought him success in the BuLi and fill the 4-2-3-1 I imagine this is the base he starts with as players that really fit into his system and philosophy:

Clyne - ??? - Sakho - ??? (Moreno?)
Henderson - ??? (Lucas?)
Sturridge - Coutinho - ???
Benteke

Now others that probably fit as well and work as depth are guys like Firmino, Milner, Lallana, Can and Ings and it's too early to tell with guys like Origi, Ibe, Rossiter (high hopes, he could be the Lucas replacement), Markovic, Ilori and Gomez.

Should be interesting to see how he builds on that base. What kind of players are willing to come in and how he accommodates players like Sturridge/Benteke and Coutinho/Firmino as well as Henderson/Milner/Can/Lucas.

I expect that at the very least Skrtel and Mignolet are not going to last long, and potentially Lovren could be gone as well. Allen I'm on the fence about because in theory his skillset fits well into what Klopp would like to accomplish.

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by DeletedUser#1 on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:06 pm

Skrtel is definitely not a Klopp defender. He's the anti-presser. I expect us to be in market for CB/CM/Winger . I think both Clyne and Moreno are very well suited to pressing game

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by DeletedUser#1 on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:06 pm

Mignonet will be binned too. I recall Weidenfeller rushing off the line in BVBs CL games to clear through balls. Mug older never ever does that

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Helmer on Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:26 pm

suddenly life is so romantic Heart

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Curtinho on Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:04 pm

After seeing his interviews it's pretty interesting. He thinks there are good players at every position here and he said that he took the job partially because he wants to work with these players. Probably not many changes coming any time soon.

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Don't call me James on Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:25 pm

Of course he's gonna say that. He's not gonna throw players under the bus in a press conference Laughing

But we'll see changes in both January and the summer. And for the better.

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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Sri on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:04 pm

Klopp is too classy to throw people under the bus.

He'll even manage to make scrubs look like world beaters.

#SaveThemKlopp
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Re: What changes do you expect?

Post by Unique on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:10 pm

srigooner wrote:Klopp is too classy to throw people under the bus.

He'll even manage to make scrubs look like world beaters.

#SaveThemKlopp
:bow: :bow:

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