Winter Window

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Don't call me James on Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:04 pm

If Klopp is planning on playing him purely as a CF, he does have the body type of Aguero /Tevez. So it could definitely work. He's definitely a goal scorer watching his videos and looking at his scoring stats for the past 2 seasons especially. And it takes away our need to ever rely on Sturridge's fitness again.

Alex/Dan
Phil - Bob - XXX

The XXX has to be an outright winger/wide player in the mould of Douglas Costa, the role he plays for Bayern. 3 AM's behind the CF (who likes to drop deep as well) congests the middle too much. Something we should address in the summer. Sane has been linked and I guess it makes sense as he is primarily a RW for Schalke. Otherwise if we wanna stick to a Brazilian flavor Lucas Moura is a RW and might just be looking for a way out of PSG.

And if nothing comes to fruition, I really hope Markovic gets a full season as a starter in that position along side the 3 Brazilians. I really think he can have a break through season and fulfill his potential which, in fact, could be higher than anyone we can possibly sign. He seems like a perfect fit in Klopp's counterpressing football. He's a very intelligent pass and move player even if he is lacking in finishing and production at the moment.

Alex
Phil - Bob - Lazar

Now if the plan is to play Teixeira as an AM or a wide forward and have him inject goals into our midfield then again it leaves us in the need of a CF. And I don't know how on earth we're gonna play all 3 of Phil, Bob, Alex as none of them really suit the wide role that well. Even Phil's best position is as a CAM not LW/LAM.

XXX
Phil - Alex - XXX

Means we have to address 2 positions still and means both Bob and Dan (a lot of talent) coming off the bench if they are available. Lacazette is an interesting one in this scenario. Inaki Williams being linked as well. I'm personally hoping, our planning is not to play all 3 of Alex, Phil, and Bob behind a CF. Though better than having Milner, Ibe, or Lallana playing in those positions it's still too unbalanced.

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Curtinho on Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:27 pm

I would take Williams and Ibe over Markovic in a heartbeat right now, but Williams just signed an extension and won't be moving any time soon I'd wager, especially if we're buying Tex. Maybe if we don't buy him he's an option in the summer but then we still have a huge hole at CF.

Sane is a left footed RW that cuts in as well so I'm not sure he would really address the congested middle.

Lucas Moura would be a fantastic buy, but again unless we're missing out on Tex that's a huge amount of money on the way out...

Still, if it were an ideal situation come this summer we'd buy Teixeira now, grab one of Williams/Lucas in the summer add Matip and a CM and we'd be solid as hell. There's almost no question that we'll be moving a lot of bodies this summer in terms of sales so let's see how that goes.

Clyne/Flanagan - Matip/Skrtel - Lovren/Sakho - Moreno/Smith
Henderson/Allen - Xhaka?/Can
Williams/Lucas/Ibe/Kent - Firmino/Teixeira/Lallana - Coutinho/Lallana/Origi/Ojo
Teixeira/Sturridge/Origi/Ings

If only we'd not re-signed Mignolet it would almost be a perfect team to storm the top of the table and even make a run at the title.

EDIT: And just to be clear I am a fan of Markovic. I love this blend of skills and speed. Most reports are that he's not going to last at Liverpool though (I would love for him to stay and get a chance though). I'm a big fan of old-school wingers as opposed to the common trend now to have outside players playing so often as forwards with opposite feet to their positions.

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Unique on Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:56 pm

http://metro.co.uk/2016/01/24/alex-teixeira-appears-to-drop-hint-on-instagram-about-liverpool-transfer-5641638/

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Re: Winter Window

Post by donttreadonred on Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:03 pm

Nice post Don't Call Me James: all very well through-out and detailed in your take on the situation.

That said, after doing a bit of research, I would be surprised to see him playing as a false9 for us. My guess would be that he finds himself playing as either the CAM behind a striker, a wide-AM (either side), or wide-forward.  

To be perfectly honest, I think his main position (if he comes) will be more dependent on Firmino than on his own merits. My feeling is that Klopp (justifiably so) wants to keep Firmino in the center of the park as much as possible. In other words, when Firmino plays, he will play as a CAM, CF, or Striker. Given our current striker situation, I can see Firmino being used as a striker/false9 for the majority of the remainder of the season, which opens up some interesting possibilities for Teixeira.

[Disclaimer: below options are meant as solutions through the remainder of this season.]

Option 1: Winger/Wide-forward
1.1 Right-sided
Coutinho/Lallana——-Firmino——-Teixeira——-
—-Can—-Henderson
Lucas

In this set-up, Teixeira would be used almost as a SS, staying high and looking looking to act more as a partner for Firmino than as a true wide-player. The two of them could dovetail very nicely, playing dummies and one-twos in the final third. Firmino would finally have the player running in behind to whom he could thread through-balls. Moreover, Firmino’s movement would seem far less frivolous with someone playing behind him that is perfectly suited to look for the runs, reward the runs, and then play off of the runs.

In this particular scenario, Coutinho or Lallana would be the most suited to complement the Brazillian duo, as they are both more prone to dropping off into the left-hand channel to receive the ball rather than run in behind. In this way, they could act as playmaker and midfield support, allowing Firmino and Teixeira to focus mainly on the attacking third. This set-up also allows Henderson/Clyne a great amount of space up the right-hand side to bomb-forward and join in on attacks.

1.2 Left-sided
Teixeira——-Firmino——-Milner
—-Can—-Henderson
Lucas

In this variation, Teixeira’s role stays very similar. The main difference is on the opposite wing. In this case, Milner seems most suited to the role, as this calls for more of a traditional winger, staying wide and spreading the defense laterally. In this set-up the onus would be on Moreno and Can to provide width down the left-side (something both players are quite used to and do on a regular basis already.

Option2: CAM
Firmino
Coutinho—-Teixeira—-Milner/Ibe
—-Can—-Henderson

As DCMJ said above, this line-up keeps allows us to keep one true wide player in the lineup (Milner/Ibe in this case), allowing Coutinho and Teixeira to play as the central creative outlets. The big question here is whether Klopp sees Firmino as a long-term option at ST. Personally, I would opt for buying a real striker in the summer. However, that discussion is somewhat out of the scope of this post. (Speaking of outside the scope of this post, Markovic would be a nice option on the right for next season, wouldn’t he…?)

Option 3: Wide-AM
Origi
Coutinho—-Firmino—-Teixeira
—-Can—-Henderson

This is basically the formation DCMJ wanted to stay away from. However, I’m not as dead-set against it. Behind the striker, you have an incredible trio of creators (and finishing ability in Firmino and Teixeira). The benefits here are that you get the movement of a true striker (regardless of polished finishing ability) and the creation/goal-scoring of Firmino and Teixeira behind him. Combine that with the creative and industrious ability of Coutinho (with multiple options in-front of him), and you have a frighteningly potent attacking set-up, even without a mature striker. (Imagine a fit Daniel Sturridge or Alexandre Lacazette at the spearhead of that attack… Wow.)

Yes, it does congest the center of the park a bit, and it is a bit top-heavy. However, it would be a good option for use against teams looking to set-up to defend away from home. When considering the width, keep in mind that we do have two fullbacks that love to bomb-on and contribute to the attack. I’m not saying that I’d play this line-up away at the Emirates, but I would certainly consider it at home against mid-table and relegation-scrapping teams.
__________

In summary, I believe Teixeira could be a vital piece in our attack as it would give Firmino the striking partner he desperately needs. Especially with Coutinho out of the lineup, he has looked isolated at times, with no one capable enough (or positioned closely enough) to pick out his good movement. With the midfield and now the wide positions manned mainly with “workers” (Henderson, Milner, Can, Allen, Lucas, Ibe, Milner, etc.) rather than “creators”, he’s had trouble receiving the ball in quality positions. He’s also lacked a partner to whom he can feed in the box. Benteke’s movement doesn’t play into Firmino’s service; Coutinho doesn’t make the runs; and Origi has been wasteful (due more to immaturity than lack of quality). With Teixeira, Firmino could finally have the attacking partner he’s been craving since Sturridge fell into his black-hole of injury woes.

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Re: Winter Window

Post by iftikhar on Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:35 pm

In what way Alex is different (or better) than Firmino? Because it seems to me that he is a goal-scoring wide/attacking midfielder, the same role/trait Firmino has been touted with.

Another point that's really bugging me is his goal-scoring ability. True, he has scored ton of goals over last two seasons; but in Ukrainian League. Not exactly a testament of ability.

I think we don't need a player like Alex. What we need is a player like Sturridge who can fit-in with the likes of Firmino and Coutinho. True, there isn't any player available who can play like Sturridge; but signing Alex doesn't seem to be the solution either.
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Re: Winter Window

Post by Curtinho on Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:21 pm

@iftikhar wrote:In what way Alex is different (or better) than Firmino? Because it seems to me that he is a goal-scoring wide/attacking midfielder, the same role/trait Firmino has been touted with.

If you watch him play the difference is quite clear. Firmino is a creative player that can score goals. Teixeira is a goal scorer that just happens to not play at the striker position. If you watch all his goals the one thing that stands out from Tex is that he has a goal scorer's instincts -- his movement, his positioning and his composure are those of someone that is going to score a bunch of goals regardless of where he's playing (it's an aspect of Ronaldo's game that people often underrate, namely being in the position to score "easy" goals).

Firmino and Teixeira would work well together I'd imagine because Firmino is primarily a creator that has a knack for scoring goals and plays well as a forward because of his work rate and intelligence off the ball (obviously great technical ability) but he's not a natural goal scorer in the same way that Teixeira appears to be.

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Helmer on Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:05 pm

I dont know when you people will take me seriously, Firmino is player who is not a pure AM. I have watched him in BL. His defined position might be like that but if you saw him playing there, his role was more of a SS, because he was asked to support the striker to create space for him, make runs, make passes for others when he cant be at the end of a goal.

He is an all action player. His passes in Norwich game and till now in other games prove that. He is not a typical number 9. He is no Suarez in terms of skill level and desire or commitment. But if you want to describe Suarez, he is a player who played a mixed role of (Striker, AM, Winger) everything for us. Firmino can also do very similar things. He is just slowly getting aquainted to the league.

So I think we should not hurry in signing Alex right now. We should wait till Summer. We already have Benteke and Sturride for a guest appearance for few games.

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Unique on Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:08 pm

@Helmer wrote:I dont know when you people will take me seriously, Firmino is player who is not a pure AM. I have watched him in BL. His defined position might be like that but if you saw him playing there, his role was more of a SS, because he was asked to support the striker to create space for him, make runs, make passes for others when he cant be at the end of a goal.

He is an all action player. His passes in Norwich game and till now in other games prove that. He is not a typical number 9. He is no Suarez in terms of skill level and desire or commitment. But if you want to describe Suarez, he is a player who played a mixed role of (Striker, AM, Winger) everything for us. Firmino can also do very similar things. He is just slowly getting aquainted to the league.

So I think we should not hurry in signing Alex right now. We should wait till Summer. We already have Benteke and Sturride for a guest appearance for few games.
tbh firmino has improved no end in the last few weeks.

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Curtinho on Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:26 am

Some of us have been saying this about Firmino from the beginning...he was just adjusting to the team and the league. He hasn't really improved so much as he has settled into the system and is getting used to his surroundings. Anyone could tell he was class from his technique and if you watched any of his BuLi stuff...there's a reason he was so highly rated tbh.

Helmer that's all fine but even with how great Firmino is he is not a pure goal scorer. I could see him being a 15-20 goal 10-15 assist player if he is playing with the right players around him. Teixeira would be one of those players...he's fast, intelligent, a pure goal scorer and very economical with the ball. They would complement eachother perfectly. Add any mix of Coutinho, Lallana, Sturridge, Origi, Ibe and whoever else to the mix (maybe Markovic, Ojo or Kent?) and it would be dynamite.

But you still need guys like Sturridge and Teixeira there who are the real goal scoring threats on a consistent basis to make this team a real contender.

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Red Alert on Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:58 am

@Helmer wrote:

So I think we should not hurry in signing Alex right now. We should wait till Summer. We already have Benteke and Sturride for a guest appearance for few games.


Alex is not a striker.
The best time to get him is now. So many other teams will be interested in the summer, no one really needs him right now.

EDIT: Also Firminho is a lot like Suarez. He obviously lacks Suarez winning mentality, and determination but ability wise Firminho comes close. Not saying he'll be as good as Luis (I doubt we'll ever see a player like him at Anfield again) but Firminho is very very good.

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Curtinho on Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:21 am

Can you not spell Firmino?

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Red Alert on Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:23 am

He has the skills to belong in the 'inho' bracket. Stay mad.

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Unique on Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:32 am

@Red Alert wrote:
@Helmer wrote:

So I think we should not hurry in signing Alex right now. We should wait till Summer. We already have Benteke and Sturride for a guest appearance for few games.


Alex is not a striker.
The best time to get him is now. So many other teams will be interested in the summer, no one really needs him right now.

EDIT: Also Firminho is a lot like Suarez. He obviously lacks Suarez winning mentality, and determination but ability wise Firminho comes close. Not saying he'll be as good as Luis (I doubt we'll ever see a player like him at Anfield again) but Firminho is very very good.
rofl rofl rofl rofl firmino has talent. but to say he is like suarez rofl rofl rofl rofl

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Art Morte on Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:24 am

Yeah, Firmino's got decent skill, but not close to Suarez. I'm not sure have I seen Firmino even attempt to dribble past a defender. Suarez used to drive at them like mad.
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Re: Winter Window

Post by Don't call me James on Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:29 am

Other than a few posters here, most notably Morty and Hank, I don't think the rest of us wrote off Firmino at all. He's clearly quality and it was obvious even in his first few months here. I'm not worried and never was about him.

Benteke on the other hand.

Alex is not a striker but I can definitely see him seamlessly transitioning into one if he does sign with us and Klopp decides to play him there.

Tready had a great post about it just above if you wanna read into more detail about the possible options of where we could play him.

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Red Alert on Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:18 am

@Unique wrote:
@Red Alert wrote:
@Helmer wrote:

So I think we should not hurry in signing Alex right now. We should wait till Summer. We already have Benteke and Sturride for a guest appearance for few games.


Alex is not a striker.
The best time to get him is now. So many other teams will be interested in the summer, no one really needs him right now.

EDIT: Also Firminho is a lot like Suarez. He obviously lacks Suarez winning mentality, and determination but ability wise Firminho comes close. Not saying he'll be as good as Luis (I doubt we'll ever see a player like him at Anfield again) but Firminho is very very good.
rofl rofl rofl rofl firmino has talent. but to say he is like suarez rofl rofl rofl rofl


Are you 41 years old or did you score 41 in an IQ test? *bleep* hell.

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Unique on Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:12 pm

@Red Alert wrote:
@Unique wrote:
@Red Alert wrote:


Alex is not a striker.
The best time to get him is now. So many other teams will be interested in the summer, no one really needs him right now.

EDIT: Also Firminho is a lot like Suarez. He obviously lacks Suarez winning mentality, and determination but ability wise Firminho comes close. Not saying he'll be as good as Luis (I doubt we'll ever see a player like him at Anfield again) but Firminho is very very good.
rofl rofl rofl rofl firmino has talent. but to say he is like suarez rofl rofl rofl rofl


Are you 41 years old or did you score 41 in an IQ test? *bleep* hell.
sorry about that. I was drunk and you were saying funny stuff cheers

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Unique on Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:16 pm

window so far with 4 days left.

players linked with.
alex teixeira
Granit Xhaka
Joel Matip

players signed.
steven caulker
marko grujic

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Helmer on Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:28 pm

For this window, I am not sure what we need but I want us to try for Xhaka!

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Art Morte on Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:33 pm

It's been reported that we offered £25m for Teixeira but Shakhtar want £35m-40m. I hope we don't raise our offer, it's already a very very good offer and I'd rather leave Shakhtar thinking what they could have done with that cash instead of bending over to them.
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Re: Winter Window

Post by Curtinho on Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:12 pm

So you'd rather not get a bonafide goal scorer so they can wonder 'what if?'

I'd rather they pony up some money for Teixeira. A year after Shakhtar sold Willian for 35m euros he went to Chelsea for 30m pounds. Look at the inflated transfer fees in the EPL. Do you really think they'd take less than 30m for Teixeira?

I mean I'm not going to be gutted not to get him, but I'd rather pay the 30+ and bring him in if he's a legitimate target that will score goals.

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Art Morte on Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:06 pm

Shakthar's revenue is probably no more than £50m per year. I think it's stupid to pay them over £30m for a player. Somewhere there has to be the line where you acknowledge that "this £25m would already be a huge money for you, if you can afford to turn it down, fine". You've got to play hard, in the long-run that will be more beneficial for you. If Shakthar's president thinks they are better off keeping a star player than adding 50% to their year's revenue, that's his decision then. Frankly, it would be an immensily stupid decision for a self-sustained club, but their owner is some billionaire, he can turn down any offer if he's just not in the mood. But my point is that there should be some correlation between a club's revenue and how much you're going to pay them for a player. If Shakthar didn't have a billionaire owner they would be insane not to accept a £25m offer. And on the other hand it's stupid of us to offer them what a billionaire would like instead of what makes sense to the club.
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Re: Winter Window

Post by Curtinho on Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:08 pm

The problem is that you can't look at it as just the team. Unfortunately they are owned by a billionaire oligarch with a ton of power and really who probably doesn't care a whole lot about what the players want or what his team makes. I mean let's be honest...he paid 6m euros for Teixeira and he'll come close to getting 10x that to sell him to the highest bidder if he can continue the form he's in.

So we either pay what they want or we move on. I'm not opposed to the latter, but having a clinical finisher in the side sure would be nice.

If we're talking about summer transfers a guy like Wijnaldum sure would be nice, but again I've wanted him forever. Not sure why Liverpool were linked with him for like a billion years and never made the move.

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Re: Winter Window

Post by donttreadonred on Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:57 pm

I simply don't see us going back in for him in the summer.  He currently has 2 1/2 years left on his deal*. Therefore, there is no reason to expect Shakhtar to significantly lower their valuation (assuming the €50m, not the rumored increase to ~€75m). Moreover, we will likely face more competition. In this window, we've been blessed by a relative lack of a bidding war. Chelsea, Man City, etc. have failed to respond to Shakhtar's veiled pleas for a bidding war. Should Teixeira maintain his form, this will likely not be the case in the summer. Waiting for the summer could actually see us spend more on the player, should another financial powerhouse enter the fray. With this in mind, I fully expect Teixeira to either happen in this window or not at all.

Should this move not materialize, I also think there are better uses of the funds in the summer. If you assume we will have at least the same amount to spend on "marquee" attacker in the summer, we could likely acquire one of Lacazette or Icardi (maybe even Morata with Dybala's maturation at Juve) for a comparable amount, and we could almost certainly afford one of Batshuayi or Berahino with cash to spare. Considering we will already be getting back Markovic and may be looking into another young wide option, we may not need/want to invest that much in another AM/wide-attacker. We may opt to spend it on a first-rate ST and save any remaining amount for use on another area of the pitch.

I could certainly be wrong. However, I get the sense that Teixeira was a player identified as the best available option, with the least amount of transition required. In other words, he could be an easy plug-n-play attacker that would not require a drastic reshuffle to accommodate, and he could also fit into Klopp's long-term vision for he attack. I don't necessarily think he is the only end-game for Klopp's attacking overhaul. With more players on the market in the summer and more time for integration and acclimatization, we could see a whole different set of attackers identified in the summer.

Just my two-cents.

* http://www.transfermarkt.com/alex-teixeira/profil/spieler/66515

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Re: Winter Window

Post by Art Morte on Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:57 am

Apparently we turned down a 3m offer from Watford for Sinclair, quite stupid of us if true lol. He'll be a free agent in the summer and isn't signing a new deal.
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Re: Winter Window

Post by Curtinho on Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:40 pm

@Art Morte wrote:Apparently we turned down a 3m offer from Watford for Sinclair, quite stupid of us if true lol. He'll be a free agent in the summer and isn't signing a new deal.

Maybe he will sign a new deal? Klopp has used him twice now.

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Re: Winter Window

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