Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
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VivaStPauli
free_cat
CBarca
M99
McAgger
McLewis
VendettaRed07
Sri
futbol
RealGunner
Raptorgunner
rwo power
Pedram
Hapless_Hans
Kaladin
El Gunner
Lucifer
BarrileteCosmico
DeletedUser#1
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Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ??
Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
RealGunner wrote:gays adopting children: no.
any particular reason?
Maybe not a scientifically logical one but I believe a child should have a mother figure as well as a father figure when growing up. I'm not sure about the psychological disadvantages for a child when everyone around him has a mom and a dad but he has two dads or moms. The child WILL at some point ask why he is "different" and doesn't have what basically everyone has and what seems normality. How that will affect a child is anyone's guess. Less than 5 % of human population is gay, says a quick Google research. This means homesexuality will never become the "acceptable norm" and children with gay parents will inevitably get mocked from other children.
Now you could argue that people also do divorce and that's also not good for children but you can't force people to stay together forever once they get children or prohibit them to make children to begin with. That's a risk that you can't prevent without enforcing totalitarian rules. On the other hand you don't have to actively promote gay couples raising children. If they are gay they must accept nature's laws that they can't make children.
What I'd find acceptable however is if gay couples can adopt, let's say 16+ year old children. At that age kids should be fully aware and be able to decide if they want to live in a gay household.
futbol- World Class Contributor
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
That's the point though, if a thing constitutes 5% of totality, it may never be the 'norm' but why can't it be 'acceptable'?
The principle of protection of minorities is not that they need to become majorities to be granted same rights.
The principle of protection of minorities is not that they need to become majorities to be granted same rights.
Hapless_Hans- Forum Legend
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Sri- Wer ko, der ko
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
Well, "protection of minorities" is a law that only applies to ethnical groups. It doesn't apply to homosexuals.
But let's pretend for a second that it actually does what you thought it does. What are you protecting exactly? Adopting children is not a human right. The well-being of the child is above your lifestyle wish ("wanting to have children", gay or not gay, if you are younger than 25 you can also not adopt). The principle is that the youth welfare office chooses the parents. Parents don't choose children.
But let's pretend for a second that it actually does what you thought it does. What are you protecting exactly? Adopting children is not a human right. The well-being of the child is above your lifestyle wish ("wanting to have children", gay or not gay, if you are younger than 25 you can also not adopt). The principle is that the youth welfare office chooses the parents. Parents don't choose children.
futbol- World Class Contributor
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
I'm Ghandi confirmed:
futbol- World Class Contributor
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
Lots of libertarian left in the GL. probably because we're all young tho, i've heard people tends to become more conservative as they age.
Pedram- Fan Favorite
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
Pedram wrote:Lots of libertarian left in the GL. probably because we're all young tho, i've heard people tends to become more conservative as they age.
I'd like to think that its the 'environment' that changes, while we're the ones stationary
Kaladin- Stormblessed
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
@futbol - I know it was only a fly-by suggestion but you said it anyway so I'll speak on it.
Where's the fun in adopting a +16 person?
Isn't the trials and tribulations, birthdays, first day of school, etc etc (you get the drill), all a part of the emotional bond and experience of being parents?
Where's the fun in adopting a +16 person?
Isn't the trials and tribulations, birthdays, first day of school, etc etc (you get the drill), all a part of the emotional bond and experience of being parents?
El Gunner- An Oakland City Warrior
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
BTW, here's my result in the no-nonsensical graph instead of that fancy certificate print they offered, too:
rwo power- Super Moderator
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
Fútbol you are missing the point. We are talking about adoption, so these are kids that by definition do not have a two parents already. So the question you should ask yourself is not "is it better to be raised by hetero or home couples?" but "is it better for these kids to spend their childhood in 'the system' or for them to be raised by 2 loving parents?"
BarrileteCosmico- Admin
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
futbol wrote:
But let's pretend for a second that it actually does what you thought it does. What are you protecting exactly? Adopting children is not a human right. The well-being of the child is above your lifestyle wish ("wanting to have children", gay or not gay, if you are younger than 25 you can also not adopt). The principle is that the youth welfare office chooses the parents. Parents don't choose children.
Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that being raised by a same sex couple somehow negatively effect a child and their wellbeing
It's complete and total nonsense and you have nothing to base it on
Also if adopting a child isn't a "right", drinking out of certain water fountains isn't a "right" either. Nor is going to certain movie theaters or eating in certain restaurants. Yet we had to make laws that stopped people from banning black people from doing all the same things and going to the same places white people were able to go to.
There is nothing inherently inferior about the health and relationship of same sex couples compared to heterosexuals and they should be allowed all the same rights heterosexual couples have
VendettaRed07- First Team
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
BarrileteCosmico wrote:Fútbol you are missing the point. We are talking about adoption, so these are kids that by definition do not have a two parents already. So the question you should ask yourself is not "is it better to be raised by hetero or home couples?" but "is it better for these kids to spend their childhood in 'the system' or for them to be raised by 2 loving parents?"
Not relevant enough quantitatively. The ratio of declined to accepted applications for adoption is 7:1 anyway. My research says there have been 4060 adoptions in Germany in 2013 and more than half of them were actually adoptions from step-parents. Now imagine that only less than 5 % of the population is gay. And now imagine how many of that < 5 % actually WANT to adopt children AND satisfy the required criteria to adopt children in general (age, income, no criminal history etc.). We might be talking about 3 - 5 cases per year? Which in itself makes the whole thing a very theoretical topic to begin with which is only there to fill political talk show time, when I think about it.
futbol- World Class Contributor
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
I'm pretty sure gay couples would be disproportionately represented in adoption applications if they were allowed to apply since, you know, if they want a kid they don't have a biological option.
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
About what I expected.
McLewis- Admin
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
VendettaRed07 wrote:futbol wrote:
But let's pretend for a second that it actually does what you thought it does. What are you protecting exactly? Adopting children is not a human right. The well-being of the child is above your lifestyle wish ("wanting to have children", gay or not gay, if you are younger than 25 you can also not adopt). The principle is that the youth welfare office chooses the parents. Parents don't choose children.
Your entire argument is based on the false assumption that being raised by a same sex couple somehow negatively effect a child and their wellbeing
It's complete and total nonsense and you have nothing to base it on
Also if adopting a child isn't a "right", drinking out of certain water fountains isn't a "right" either. Nor is going to certain movie theaters or eating in certain restaurants. Yet we had to make laws that stopped people from banning black people from doing all the same things and going to the same places white people were able to go to.
There is nothing inherently inferior about the health and relationship of same sex couples compared to heterosexuals and they should be allowed all the same rights heterosexual couples have
Why is that a false assumption? Many gay people themselves don't come out (you know any gay, active footballer?) and hide it for a long time until they are stable, independent and mature enough. Then why deliberately expose little children to deal with the same social conflicts about their parents? There is a theoretical part and then there is reality.
The analogy with black people and restaurants is alluring but different. In the case of prohibiting black people to visit certain restaurants you are restricting them from doing something which they are naturally capable of doing. Moving from A to B. Which is wrong.
If you are gay you are naturally not able to reproduce. And since homosexuality is not an illness/disfunction (unlike, say, infertility) but something natural, this means you are naturally not meant to have children. From this I logically deduct that allowing gay couples to "workaround" their inability to have children is actually unnatural and therefore children mustn't be exposed to something unnatural. So if the state is prohibiting gay people to adopt children, it is not actually hindering them from doing something which they are naturally capable of doing. Unlike the restaurant analogy.
futbol- World Class Contributor
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
Your logical fallacy is: Appeal to Nature!
BarrileteCosmico- Admin
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
I guess this might make some gays turn to employ surrogate mothers in countries where this is not illegal. Dunno if that is something the authorities would wish for, but if they get a woman to carry the baby of one of the guys to term for a certain fee, that baby would be the biological child of one of the guys and they would have the right to raise it.
Unfortunately this leads to other problems, though, as loan mothers likely desperately need the money and then might get into psychological problems. Thus it would probably be the better solution to let them go through the proper procedure of adoption which would likely lead to less trouble for all involved.
Unfortunately this leads to other problems, though, as loan mothers likely desperately need the money and then might get into psychological problems. Thus it would probably be the better solution to let them go through the proper procedure of adoption which would likely lead to less trouble for all involved.
rwo power- Super Moderator
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
Goddam was trying to get Hitler
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
It's a shame that gay people won't get to reproduce.
Studies have shown Gays are among the top 3% smartest people on earth....if they don't reproduce, their genes won't pass on and humanity will suffer as a whole in the long-term.
I wish they could get some girl pregnant in a one night stand, before marrying their love-guy...so at least a baby can be born that carries the intelligence of usually exceptionally talented gay people.
Studies have shown Gays are among the top 3% smartest people on earth....if they don't reproduce, their genes won't pass on and humanity will suffer as a whole in the long-term.
I wish they could get some girl pregnant in a one night stand, before marrying their love-guy...so at least a baby can be born that carries the intelligence of usually exceptionally talented gay people.
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
Lmao, I got this
Right on point
Right on point
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
u mean Gandhifutbol wrote:I'm Ghandi confirmed:
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
Not many rightists
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
Didn't think I was that far left. I didn't care too much for the questions, though. As Hans and Futbol have pointed out, whenever you ask this kind of stuff in a format like this and only have four options, it doesn't give you the proper ability to respond in a way you feel is most appropriate for yourself. That being said, this is probably one of the better ideology tests I've taken.
Not surprised to see I'm in an area that caters more to the European population than American
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
Having posted this, I don't like to classify my way of thinking. Ideologies are categories that simplify the world but are not useful to rightfully decide wether something is good or bad. They are irrational. So I try to analyse issue to issue my stance on it depending on the pros and cons.
This means to many issues I don't have any stance, as I didn't have the time to get informed. Currently the TTIP is an important issue in Europe, and tbh I have no idea if I'm for or against it, for example. Being "center-left" as I'm supposed to, I should be against TTIP.
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Re: Where in the Political Spectrum do you stand ?
And here's me, you beautiful, Bavarian bastard.Hapless_Hans wrote:
(Me favoring regulation probably pushed me a bit into the autoritarian direction)
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