What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

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What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Valkyrja on Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:06 pm

This team is not working, that pretty much is clear. Even if through a miracle we win sth this year, we should rebuild from skretch, something like Barca did in 08.

1. BBC out. All of them. I'd rather see Jese run his heart out than these 3 poses not giving a shit. I thank Ronaldo for the legendary stuff he gave us, but his mind is not in Madrid anymore. Bale is shit. Benzema's mind is not at football right now. He's finished.
2. Sell that scrub Danilo. I've never thought that I could see a worse player than Faubert and Gravesen in a Madrid shirt. We sold Fabinho who is playing great for Monaco for this piece of shit. Buy Gaya as Marcelo's sub.
3. Bring a coach with balls and brains. Bring Carlo back if possible and give him full control. Bring anyone but sack Benitez, whom I'm sorry for since he seems like a nice guy, but this job isn't meant for him.
4. Break the bank for a top striker. There are not many. Maybe that Martial kid but I don't think United are willing to sell.
5. Unleash James. Build around him.
5. Bring back Morata and Asensio. I would also give Jese a bigger role. He had trouble with injuries but the kid is potentially world-class.
6. Buy Ceballos from Betis b4 Barca capture him.
7. Keep Pepe for another year. No need for another defender as we have Vallejo on loan.



8. FOR THE SAKE OF THIS TEAM, END THIS GALACTICOS POLICY.

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:13 pm

jese is not very good sadly

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:13 pm

Easy answer. Sell Ronaldo. Problem solved.

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:25 pm

it would be a start, but you also have to do the incredible by selling Bale and finding a manager that can actually get the players to play as a team, pass and move etc...

The chances for all of that to happen are near 0.

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by futbol on Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:32 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:Easy answer. Sell Ronaldo. Problem solved.


Meh. Perez is worse. I bet Benitez, if he had 100 % power and authority to have his way, would like to play differently. For example with Casemiro in a 3 man midfield, he seems to prefer that. But obviously he has to play all the stars and big money signings of the president, i. e. Ronaldo, Bale, James (with at least 2 of them doing absolutely 0 defensive work), so the coach can't even implement his own ideas.

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Donuts on Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:36 pm

You wanna sell Benzema, Ronaldo, Bale for Jese, Morata, and Martial kid?

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Valkyrja on Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:40 pm

@Donuts wrote:You wanna sell Benzema, Ronaldo, Bale for Jese, Morata, and Martial kid?


not necessarily. the main idea is to sell them.

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:44 pm

Threads like this, and sorry to put you on the spot, are not very well thought.

this fantasist sell this sign this, is the last thing we should be doing when building a team.

How do we want to play? what formation? what type of football? This decision has never been made, and so we sign players and hardly complement one another's weaknesses and we hope for the best.

It doesnt work like that. we have to decide what type of team we want to be first, when that's done, then you will know whether it's worth selling or buying x or y.

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:46 pm

I'm actually serious. Not that it would be ALL that needs to happen obviously, but everything else is secondary.

You don't HAVE to sell Bale. You don't HAVE to get an upgrade on Benzema. They are good players, they can be replaced or not.
What you have to get, is meaningful team spirit, tactical discipline and coaching authority. These three are dependent on each other.
You can argue whether Benitez is the right one, Carlo, Emery, Pardew, Tuchel, Quique Flores, or Pep, sure, but obviously it doesnt matter with Ronaldo.

You can argue which player to bench, how to line up, which upgrade player to bring in, how to use Bale if at all, etc pp, but it's all mute as long as you have one player locked as a starter who is exempt from these deliberations and hinders them.
What good is it to bring in a strong headed coach when Ronaldo has the power to bring him down?
What good is it to buy great players when you can't line them up optimally because Ronaldo must play, and always play, and never get subbed?

The presence of Ronaldo makes team spirit impossible.
He earns double the rest and doesn't see it necessary to be considered equal.
He doesn't follow the authority of coaching. Not saying he is disobeying or anything, but again I'd argue his presence undermines coaching authority.
He is a walking reminder for the other players too. Why must they be disciplined and selfless if he musn't? Etc.

The proof is for example in the free kicks. Had your coach (ANY coach) the authority over Ronaldo that is normal and professional for a coach to have over a player, Ronaldo would not take free kicks.

Of course, Real always was a star players' club rather than a star coach's club, that has advantages and disadvantages, but the disadvantages take over with a bad apple like Ronaldo, who isn't smart enough to think about the team.

If you have star players running the show, at least have star players who are smart enough to remember it's a team sport. Like Messi. Like Neymar, Suarez.

I'd argue that everyone of the rest, Bale, Benzema, Ramos, and so on, are smart enough, to adjust their behaviour or game, accept a different role, etc, but Ronaldo isn't because his vanity trumps any intelligence he might have eventually.

Sell Ronaldo, and the rest can be sorted out. With him, it can't be sorted out.

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by titosantill on Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:49 pm

first thing we need to do. change our mentality;
i have no problem with people who didn't want rafa here to begin with, saying they want him out. i have no problem with people who didn't want carlo fired, (not because he was great, barca won the treble, but because we felt most people available were a step down) complaining about rafa.

i have a problem when the same people who criticized him and those who championed rafa (cos he was born in madrid, smh), now want him out. i have a problem with that because, such people will be quick to blame florentino, not realizing, that money, wealth, economic awareness aside, they are no different from florentino
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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:52 pm

As much as i agree with you, and as i said it will be a start, it will take a bit more than that. Ronaldo has become a poison and he has been readying his way to PSG for the past few weeks. He will go on his own, specially now that he is the club top scorer. He will go, but we still dont know what kind of team we want to be, and that's just as big of a problem. i can argue that with this midfield built a different we could have very much accomodated CR even now, even with all his freedom

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by titosantill on Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:55 pm

Now what we really need to do, is let the season play itself out. we'll probably beat cadiz and one of the players will proclaim that "we can still win the treble". let's not fall for that. be patient, the season ends, then we can look at management and talk hiring/firing. But, if that's the case, the new manager should pick his team. if florentino decides he wants to get a new toy based solely on success at the euros, then we are screwed

as far as personnel, we are stuck with them for this year at least. who we should sign is not something for fans to answer now. the mentality needs to be developed first, and NOT "who is as good as msn that we can sign"? when the mentality develops, (and by mentality i mean management that can inspire players to fight and battle, and not feel inferior), then a coach can look at what we lack and rectify it

but so far, this project from 2010 till now, has been a disaster, and could have even been worse if not for ramos two years ago.
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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:11 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:As much as i agree with you, and as i said it will be a start, it will take a bit more than that. Ronaldo has become a poison and he has been readying his way to PSG for the past few weeks. He will go on his own, specially now that he is the club top scorer. He will go, but we still dont know what kind of team we want to be, and that's just as big of a problem. i can argue that with this midfield built a different we could have very much accomodated CR even now, even with all his freedom


Yes, but as you say, Ronaldo is a poison. You can think about what team you want to be after he's gone.

I'm absolutely convinced he is corrosive. He is the signal to his teammates that Real is not a meritocracy.

Sure, he scored lots of goals and is a great player, but what do you think the rest of the team REALLY thinks about him?

If he scores the meaningless 4th in a CL final and makes it about him, if he finishes moves created for him and makes it about him, how do you think his teammates really rate his contributions?

If he steps up with his routine to take every free kick, what do the other players think?

It's obvious what they think: "What a *bleep* idiot, and he's our star player and biggest earner" Laughing
You can't tell me anyone from the team actually really LIKES him. They have to put up with him, and given his exposure and centrality it's a lot to have to put up with.

You can't have that. That's a terrible thing to have in a team.


Your midfield: Modric, Kroos, Kovacic, Casemiro. You're telling me it's impossible to find a functioning configuration from that?

Isco, James, Bale, Benzema, Jese. You can't get goals and chances out of these players?

You wouldn't even need to replace Ronaldo with anyone Laughing

Of course, Perez' mindset would necessitate buying another huge name.

But chances are any big name you could possibly buy, let's say, Hazard, Aguero, Pogba, Reus, would no way be as corrosive as Ronaldo. Noone is as little a team player and as much self-obsessed as Ronaldo, he's pretty unique in that regard Laughing

If you can't completely oust Perez and the Galactico approach (guess you can't), getting rid of Ronaldo goes a long way.

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by sportsczy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:15 am

You need a president that knows how football works OR hires a sporting director with full powers that knows how football works.

Superstars can play together to become a great team BUT you have to find the right kind of superstars... namely those who crave winning trophies more than any individual award.

We don't need to make 100 changes. Just a few:
- Break up BBC. Put James on the right, Bale on the left and get a killer CF that's a scorer first. I say take a chance on Aguero and back him up with Aubameyang who can play the wings too. If he gets injured, so be it.
- Get a manager with a philosophy AND enough political equity to handle the pressure at Madrid. I think Blanc is a good choice but he won't leave PSG. After him, i'd go for Conte.
- Commit to 3 year plans minimum regardless of the results. After 3 years, then fire whoever you want if it fails. 1-2 year stints get you nowhere.

It's not that revolutionary.

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Valkyrja on Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:20 am

Aguero besides being injury prone has a worse big-game record than Higuaín.

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by sportsczy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:23 am

you can't be serious Laughing

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:30 am

@sportsczy wrote:You need a president that knows how football works OR hires a sporting director with full powers that knows how football works.

Superstars can play together to become a great team BUT you have to find the right kind of superstars...  namely those who crave winning trophies more than any individual award.


Wasn't Zidane sporting director?

Agree about the second part.

@sportsczy wrote:-  Commit to 3 year plans minimum regardless of the results.  After 3 years, then fire whoever you want if it fails.  1-2 year stints get you nowhere.


That's nonsense IMO. If a coach bombs and gets terrible results, by all means fire him even if it's after 4 months.

You don't get 3 years REGARDLESS of results at Real or any top club, that's madness.
Also, it doesn't take that long to get a team to play somewhat successfully, if you have some kind of prudent squad planning (your point about the sporting director). Just because van Gaal talks about 3 years of 'process' that's still BS Laughing

Heynckes' stint was 2 years. Enrique won the Treble in his first year. Pep, obviously, his teams beast after 3 weeks. That's in clubs where the squad has quality.
Klopp took 3 years to take Dortmund to a BuLi win, but that was a club on the brink of bankruptcy, that had sold any player of value in years before and during and were in midtable ruins Laughing

However, one trophyless season after a glorious CL win, or one Clasico defeat in an otherwise solid season that's barely 3 months old, are NOT terrible results that should be grounds for firing Laughing

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by sportsczy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:44 am

Zidane wasn't the sporting director for the senior squad.  After Valdano, we haven't had any.  He was the director in charge of the youth programs and then he just became the coach of Castilla.

Regarding the 2nd part...  that's because we're starting from scratch Hans.  I'm not saying that we can be horrible....  but if we are top 3 in La Liga, and reach the semis of CDR and CL, it shouldn't mean that a coach gets automatically fired.  Give him 3 years AND THEN demand a major trophy.  Let there be some consistency.  If you're going to fire the coach... then at least hire someone that follows the same philosophical traits.  You can't keep building from scratch.

Look at Man U. For better or for worse, they're giving Van Gaal 3 years. If they had knee-jerked after 1 year, he wouldn't be here this season. You can see the squad growing. He still has issues with the old guard in Rooney.... but other than having to accommodate Wayne, the rest are being built up.

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:51 am


@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:As much as i agree with you, and as i said it will be a start, it will take a bit more than that. Ronaldo has become a poison and he has been readying his way to PSG for the past few weeks. He will go on his own, specially now that he is the club top scorer. He will go, but we still dont know what kind of team we want to be, and that's just as big of a problem. i can argue that with this midfield built a different we could have very much accomodated CR even now, even with all his freedom


Yes, but as you say, Ronaldo is a poison. You can think about what team you want to be after he's gone.

I'm absolutely convinced he is corrosive. He is the signal to his teammates that Real is not a meritocracy.

Sure, he scored lots of goals and is a great player, but what do you think the rest of the team REALLY thinks about him?

If he scores the meaningless 4th in a CL final and makes it about him, if he finishes moves created for him and makes it about him, how do you think his teammates really rate his contributions?

If he steps up with his routine to take every free kick, what do the other players think?

It's obvious what they think: "What a *bleep* idiot, and he's our star player and biggest earner" Laughing
You can't tell me anyone from the team actually really LIKES him. They have to put up with him, and given his exposure and centrality it's a lot to have to put up with.

You can't have that. That's a terrible thing to have in a team.


Your midfield: Modric, Kroos, Kovacic, Casemiro. You're telling me it's impossible to find a functioning configuration from that?

Isco, James, Bale, Benzema, Jese. You can't get goals and chances out of these players?

You wouldn't even need to replace Ronaldo with anyone Laughing

Of course, Perez' mindset would necessitate buying another huge name.

But chances are any big name you could possibly buy, let's say, Hazard, Aguero, Pogba, Reus, would no way be as corrosive as Ronaldo. Noone is as little a team player and as much self-obsessed as Ronaldo, he's pretty unique in that regard Laughing

If you can't completely oust Perez and the Galactico approach (guess you can't), getting rid of Ronaldo goes a long way.
everything about CR, i agree with you, he is poison

and yes, we have quality players, yet i doubt the meritocracy would end with cristiano.

you know, what i like about barca, is the fact they know who they are, they know how they play, and not everyone can play for them, regardless of how good you are, you might now fit. That's an issue we still have in that, we just sign the first good player we see, and then we think about where we would play them.

It's just as big a problem as CR. My argument earlier was that, nothing could have stopped us from building a midfield with 2 box to box, hard working mids, to cover for the embarrassing attackers we have.

There are too many issues with how we think football and how we go about executing that thinking.

What i am saying is, ok sell CR, but then think about how you want to play, stick to it, and sign players that fit that style.

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:52 am

@sportsczy wrote:
Regarding the 2nd part...  that's because we're starting from scratch Hans.  I'm not saying that we can be horrible....  but if we are top 3 in La Liga, and reach the semis of CDR and CL, it shouldn't mean that a coach gets automatically fired.  Give him 3 years AND THEN demand a major trophy.  Let there be some consistency.  If you're going to fire the coach... then at least hire someone that follows the same philosophical traits.  You can't keep building from scratch.


Yeah sure, then I agree, if that's what you mean with 'regardless of results'.

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:06 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:

everything about CR, i agree with you, he is poison

and yes, we have quality players, yet i doubt the meritocracy would end with cristiano.

you know, what i like about barca, is the fact they know who they are, they know how they play, and not everyone can play for them, regardless of how good you are, you might now fit. That's an issue we still have in that, we just sign the first good player we see, and then we think about where we would play them.

It's just as big a problem as CR. My argument earlier was that, nothing could have stopped us from building a midfield with 2 box to box, hard working mids, to cover for the embarrassing attackers we have.

There are too many issues with how we think football and how we go about executing that thinking.

What i am saying is, ok sell CR, but then think about how you want to play, stick to it, and sign players that fit that style.


I might be more relaxed about this then you, but then I didn't watch the Clasico Laughing

Don't think one needs to make such as big a fuzz about 'identity' as Barca do.
Of course, you need good squad planning and a good coach, but that's about it. That's hard enough to find of course and won't always work, but that's normal.

But you have a good squad already. Problem is Bale and Ronaldo both need to be fed, they take more than they give. One of them maybe a team can accomodate, not two.

It's just a couple of bad decisions, it's not all bad decisions. Kovacic is a good buy, Casemiro back, Varane, Navas, that's all fine. Kroos is fine if you don't indulge his worst instincts as strangely you have done.

Probably, spending crazy money, De Bruyne would have been wiser than Bale. He's a provider and fantastic crossers.

Nothing a little bit of common sense couldn't fix, but Perez is going to be Perez. Nobody's perfect Proud

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:21 am

Not selling Di Maria in the first place would have been a good start, but then again, we cant rewrite history.

In my opinion, Real Madrid plays terrible. we went from Mourinho to Ancelotti to Benitez. There is never any continuation in terms of how we play, and i think it's a bigger issue. Twice now this season, we have been embarrassed at home, by psg and now barca. As much as i want CR, i want us to adjust how we play, to stick to a idea and to build around that.

In comparison, that's the reason barca have remained so consistent for the past 6 years. Same idea, same intentions, yes truly unique players, but they havent made wholesale changes in terms of who they are, and they have mostly signed players who fit what they do, and end up being highlighted by how the whole team play football. Can we say the same about Bale? James? they change position every week, and then for the clasico we expect the team to play miraculous football.

de bruyne Laughing

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by sportsczy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:42 am

Barca's consistent philosophy of play has saved them from otherwise pretty inept executive management...  we have the inept management AND no philosophy of play.

You have to at least have one or the other... preferably both Laughing

For example, the one thing Barca does emphasize is that every player coming in has a very high level of technical skill because you can't play their style otherwise...  but again, it's the philosophy limiting the idiocy their management can do.  They make plenty of mistakes but it's within context at least.

Can Madrid adopt a philosophy?  I don't think so.  We're not that kind of club.  HOWEVER, we can put people in positions of making football decisions that actually understand football.  Either Flo just decides on a whim or he's surrounded by incompetent people or both..  i think a lot of it is on Flo since he's the only constant.

As an example of an upcoming Barca transfer.... Pogba. Is he perfect? No. But he's very young and, most importantly, has the technical tools to adapt to their style of play. So he's a fit. They'll overpay for that especially since he combines it with physical skills they haven't had since Yaya. It may not work out but it makes sense.

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by sportsczy on Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:47 am

Even if you don't have a philosophy... any idiot knew that Bale wasn't a fit and that BBC was going to have a hard time working.  Any idiot knew that neither James and Isco are not CMs and that Kroos/Modric can't do the job defensively.

The two areas we've done pretty well is defense and goalkeeping.  But that's not enough obviously.

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Re: What SHOULD Happen Official Thread

Post by vanDEEZ on Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:06 am

I'm with sports.

It's about finding the right combination of players that we have at our disposal.

We are going to have to wait (maybe forever) for a quality coach/manager who could implement an actual philosophy.

For the time being we just need to get the starting XIs right, and clearly Benitez is not capable of doing that.
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