Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Sri on Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:49 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
No.
This is a match between hyped managers, not between all good managers.

Besides, Everton, probably West Ham, and surely Leicester, are not teams of the same caliber as the big six.
We need a table where the performance of the manager plays the most meaningful role, and the number of star players the least meaningful.


Tottenham are a smaller club than you credit them for, in that case. So we should only really be talking about City, United, Chelsea (tier 1) and Arsenal, Liverpool (tier 2+).

If you want to focus on the big managers, then why does Pochettino get a place at that table? Bilic, Raineri and Koeman are of comparable calibre. With TV money, these teams have also done significant strengthening (ok, maybe not Soton or Spurs).

Take all of them in, and the performance of managers is what would count, with the entire squad at their disposal.

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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:51 pm

Pochettinio gets a place at the table so that he can sit at the bottom of that table and we can rub it in BC's face

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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Lucifer on Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:53 pm

Hans sure knows how to spice things up. Only if he had done same in his marriage Arte wouldn't have left him.
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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:56 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:How is that a great idea smfh.

Why should an away win count more than a home win?


hmm

not sure

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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Sri on Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:00 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Pochettinio gets a place at the table so that he can sit at the bottom of that table and we can rub it in BC's face


You want a real deathmatch or you want to script some story that you think would make a good read? hmm
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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Sri on Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:02 pm

Lucifer wrote:Hans sure knows how to spice things up. Only if he had done same in his marriage Arte wouldn't have left him.
Spoiler:
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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:04 pm

Sri wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:Pochettinio gets a place at the table so that he can sit at the bottom of that table and we can rub it in BC's face


You want a real deathmatch or you want to script some story that you think would make a good read? hmm

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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Sri on Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:06 pm

I call a vote.
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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:07 pm

A vote on what?

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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Sri on Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:09 pm

For GL to decide if Koeman, Bilic, and Raineri deserve to be included as well.
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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:10 pm

Denied.

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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Sri on Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:17 pm

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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by iftikhar on Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:37 pm

Sri wrote:
rofl
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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:54 pm

ok so we scrap that stuff with 4 points away win. It's 3 points win, 1 point draw. Only direct duels between Pep, Klopp, Jose, Wenger, Conte and Poch.

So far
Arsenal - Liverpool 3-4
Spurs - Liverpool 1-1
Man United - Man City 1-2
Chelsea - Liverpool 1-2
Arsenal - Chelsea 3-0


Standings
Klopp 7 points 3 games
Pep 3 points 1 game
Wenger 3 points 2 games
Pochettini 1 poit 1 game
Jose 0 points 1 game
Conte 0 points 2 games

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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Sri on Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:11 pm

Sri wrote:For GL to decide if Koeman, Bilic, and Raineri deserve to be included as well.
FFS let down by all three of them.

Still think away games should have a slight edge though :coffee:

Also, include Points Per Game as a metric - or it is not reflective when each has played a diff number of games.


Also, Pochettino should not be anywhere near this. But let him stick around while Spurs have their run, I guess.
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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Don't call me James on Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:14 pm

Ranieri should be included even if you don't want to include the rest. He's just won the PL ffs.

Also because Klopp gets more points.

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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Unique on Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:19 pm

I think klopp  poch will inflict peps first defeat of the season on him. I can feel it in my bones. Thumbs up


Last edited by Unique on Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by CBarca on Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:23 pm

Spurs against "typical" top 5 2015-2016
United: 3 points of 6
City: 6 points of 6
Liverpool: 2 points of 6
Chelsea: 2 points of 6
Arsenal: 2 points of 6

Points per game wise you might not be impressed, but against the "typical" top 5 last year, Poch won 3, drew 6 and lost just one in 10 games. When you take into account that Poch wasn't responsible for Spurs players choking the NLD's away even though Spurs should have won both as well as the infamous 2-2 at the Bridge last year, it looks like Poch has done pretty well. Could easily be W6 D3 L1. I think he deserves a seat at the table.

Still in command of a bunch of chokers tho Laughing
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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:25 pm

I explained before why Ranieri isn't included. I can explain again. After that, I'll expect the incessant questioning and second guessing of my design to stop.

This is a match between the hyped big name managers of the Prem.
Ranieri is too much of a grand-dadly, honorable gentleman that I would want him involved in this circus.
Besides, his managerial achievement of last season is beyond competition and it wouldn't do justice to this achievement, and neither the man, to have him sit at the end of this table, as he surely would. Leicester won't win many games against top teams this season. It's not a fair contest.

All right?
Moving on then.

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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Unique on Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:26 pm

CBarca wrote:Spurs against "typical" top 5 2015-2016
United: 3 points of 6
City: 6 points of 6
Liverpool: 2 points of 6
Chelsea: 2 points of 6
Arsenal: 2 points of 6

Points per game wise you might not be impressed, but against the "typical" top 5 last year, Poch won 3, drew 6 and lost just one in 10 games. When you take into account that Poch wasn't responsible for Spurs players choking the NLD's away even though Spurs should have won both as well as the infamous 2-2 at the Bridge last year, it looks like Poch has done pretty well. Could easily be W6 D3 L1. I think he deserves a seat at the table.

Still in command of a bunch of chokers tho Laughing
poch is a poor mans mourinho :coffee:

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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by CBarca on Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:29 am

I'm not really sure how it works. I mean, in one sense I agree--their results against top sides look similar. Some winning, a lot of drawing and not much losing.

And I know you're just playing but if you watch Spurs against the top teams it's not like they ever play negatively. Poch doesn't set up his teams like Mou against the top teams. Spurs still try to play the way Poch's Spurs. I would concede there is a bit more of a conservative nature to the game, but that's to be expected regardless. For some reason Spurs just happen to draw a lot of the games against the top teams and I'm not really sure why. You know, other than the whole choking away leads against good teams cuz it's Spurs. Perhaps that's it.
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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by iftikhar on Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:12 am

Unique wrote:
CBarca wrote:Spurs against "typical" top 5 2015-2016
United: 3 points of 6
City: 6 points of 6
Liverpool: 2 points of 6
Chelsea: 2 points of 6
Arsenal: 2 points of 6

Points per game wise you might not be impressed, but against the "typical" top 5 last year, Poch won 3, drew 6 and lost just one in 10 games. When you take into account that Poch wasn't responsible for Spurs players choking the NLD's away even though Spurs should have won both as well as the infamous 2-2 at the Bridge last year, it looks like Poch has done pretty well. Could easily be W6 D3 L1. I think he deserves a seat at the table.

Still in command of a bunch of chokers tho Laughing
poch is a poor mans mourinho :coffee:
No he isn't.








He doesn't moan :coffee:
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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Sri on Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:26 am

Hapless_Hans wrote:I explained before why Ranieri isn't included. I can explain again. After that, I'll expect the incessant questioning and second guessing of my design to stop.

This is a match between the hyped big name managers of the Prem.
Ranieri is too much of a grand-dadly, honorable gentleman that I would want him involved in this circus.
Besides, his managerial achievement of last season is beyond competition and it wouldn't do justice to this achievement, and neither the man, to have him sit at the end of this table, as he surely would. Leicester won't win many games against top teams this season. It's not a fair contest.

All right?
Moving on then.


I find much fallacy and delusion in this post. So, as a forum of the posters, by the posters, and for the posters, I expect the incessant questioning and second guessing of your design to continue. This is no authoritarian regime.

Here are the Arsene-specific points, at the risk of nitpicking:

- Wenger is not 'hyped'. He's got 20 years at the top level. None of the others have matched that (yet). Mou and Klopp have already had their turns finishing mid-table. Pep is an exception(al manager). If 'hype' is your criteria, then Wenger shouldn't be on that list. Nobody is 'hyped' about Arsenal or Wenger. At best, realistically, we'll finish second or third.

- Wenger is also a grand-dadly and honorable gentleman. Heck, he's probably the only non-arrogant manager in that list. Klopp is also down to earth, but neither have ever publicly thrown their players under the bus - that is just one possbile measure of being gentlemanly. And in fact, Wenger is so much of a granddad that I find him to be a dinosaur, past his sell by date, and incapable of winning any major honors with his stubbornness and unwillingness to change.

Though I do not agree with your reasons, based on the first six game weeks, I can agree on the choice of the managers in the list. It would still be interesting to have the likes of Koeman and Rainieri in the pool, but I see the risk that it ends up becoming a case of statpadding.

I am still unconvinced by your (lack of) argument(s) on why away wins should not get more credit. :coffee:
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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Sri on Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:27 am

iftikhar wrote:
Unique wrote:
CBarca wrote:Spurs against "typical" top 5 2015-2016
United: 3 points of 6
City: 6 points of 6
Liverpool: 2 points of 6
Chelsea: 2 points of 6
Arsenal: 2 points of 6

Points per game wise you might not be impressed, but against the "typical" top 5 last year, Poch won 3, drew 6 and lost just one in 10 games. When you take into account that Poch wasn't responsible for Spurs players choking the NLD's away even though Spurs should have won both as well as the infamous 2-2 at the Bridge last year, it looks like Poch has done pretty well. Could easily be W6 D3 L1. I think he deserves a seat at the table.

Still in command of a bunch of chokers tho Laughing
poch is a poor mans mourinho :coffee:
No he isn't.








He doesn't moan :coffee:


It's not even a comparison.

Pochettino has some class, and probably the only Spuds manager I have (halfway) respected in over a decade. #EndOf
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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:30 pm

So far
Arsenal - Liverpool 3-4
Spurs - Liverpool 1-1
Man United - Man City 1-2
Chelsea - Liverpool 1-2
Arsenal - Chelsea 3-0
Spurs - City 2-0

Standings
Klopp 7 points 3 games
Poch 4 points 2 games
Pep 3 points 2 games
Wenger 3 points 2 games
Jose 0 points 1 game
Conte 0 points 2 games

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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:12 pm

UPDATE

Did you know? According to Mourinho, Klopp's Liverpool aren't the "last wonder of the world"? That's why holding them at 0:0 was such a great achievement, because logic.

Anyway.

Games played
Arsenal - Liverpool 3-4
Spurs - Liverpool 1-1
Man United - Man City 1-2
Chelsea - Liverpool 1-2
Arsenal - Chelsea 3-0
Spurs - City 2-0
Liverpool - Man United 0-0

Standings

Klopp 8 points 4 games
Poch 4 points 2 games
Pep 3 points 2 games
Wenger 3 points 2 games
Jose 1 points 2 games
Conte 0 points 2 games

Standings translated into a points per game table
1. Klopp 2 ppg
Poch 2 ppg
3. Pep 1.5 ppg
Wenger 1.5 ppg
5. José 0.5 ppg
6. Conte 0 ppg


Last edited by Hapless_Hans on Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ultimate Manager Death Match - Premier League 2016/17

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