Zidane Sack Watch

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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by LeBéninois on Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:39 pm

I'm excited to see Zidane coaching tho. Can't wait.

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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by sportsczy on Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:46 pm

A lot of managers do that... SAF had Querioz and others do it for him after the 90s while he concentrated on being the general manager.  Deschamps has Guy Stephan.  Carlo has used Paul Clement in this capacity since his Chelsea days.

Initially, i think Zidane will have to do a lot of the technical work himself since he doesn't have his pick of staff in January.  But i expect him to hire a similar technical person such as managers like Carlo do in the summer unless this season works out really well... and even then.

Difference with Zidane and the guys like Blanc and Deschamps is that Zidane actually went through the formal training and got his license.  So he was taught the methodologies and passed the examinations.  Blanc and DD became managers without going through the training.

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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by LeBéninois on Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:49 pm

@sportsczy wrote:A lot of managers do that... SAF had Querioz and others do it for him after the 90s while he concentrated on being the general manager.  Deschamps has Guy Stephan.  Carlo has used Paul Clement in this capacity since his Chelsea days.

Initially, i think Zidane will have to do a lot of the technical work himself since he doesn't have his pick of staff in January.  But i expect him to hire a similar technical person such as managers like Carlo do in the summer unless this season works out really well... and even then.

Difference with Zidane and the guys like Blanc and Deschamps is that Zidane actually went through the formal training and got his license.  So he was taught the methodologies and passed the examinations.  Blanc and DD became managers without going through the training.


I get your point but the difficulty for Zidane is that he's taking over Real Madrid a club with no patience . SAF, DD, Blanc all had time when they started to coach.

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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by Kaladin on Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:52 pm

You could find many examples that support both sides of Zidane's appointment, heck you only need to look at Milan's last 2 coaches (Seedorf and Inzaghi) to get a picture of how unpredictable this appointment can go. (Seedorf: came from Botafogo in Jan., no license or anything,  instilled an identity with the team, played decent to great football, sacked because of clashes with what management wants, Pippo: very much like Zidane came from youth team, hired in the summer, had all the licenses, almost made me want to quit football)

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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by BarcaLearning on Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:37 am

Loool! Flo and Madrid at it again Very Happy I never really thought Real would be in slump for this long, just read that they last won the league in 11/12 I think it was. Surely they they dont look like winning it this season unless Zidane turns out to be a miracle worker. If what likely will happen is to happen meaning Atletico Madrid will not be beat Barca to the title again, than I would be really happy that Barca's domination continues, as I really thought our cycle was over, thanks to Enrique, MSN, etc., our era is really continuing it seems Very Happy As we all know now, Madrid is still the same with Flo, the stars, the demanding fans, it really is difficult for any manager to be in the Real job nowadays, especially with both Barca and Atletico doing so well, it must make FLo and their fans mad Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Zidane appointment is very interesting though, from what everyone said, it seems most tend to think he is just interim until Mou returns, but really? I mean Mou as we also know now destroys a club after three years at most Very Happy And its hard to imagine he could come back and repair the relationship with some of the Real stars that he obviously lost when he departed. I dont want to guess whether Zidane will succeed or fail, but he sure has a tough job, although he will be given a lot of patience I think by everyone, and needs to be.

But in the end, I think someone said it already, as long as Flo is the president, and he seems like dictating that the manager must pick his stars and play attacking, and largely ignores defending, than Real will never be able to find that balance needed to be a truly successful team. The results speak for themselves, its really ending up to be just Galaticos era v.2 it seems Very Happy

I want to ask though as Futbol mentioned, how Zidane does would shed light if Pep is a fraud? What do you mean by that exactly?

Also to Sport, what exactly is the philosophy you said Blanc has implemented to PSG?

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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by titosantill on Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:41 am

umm i'm not sure i'd give alex ferguson's success to querioz, hell, not i'm not sure , i WON'T give fergie's success to querioz. querioz has been the coach of other teams since united and has flopped with all of them. he took over a madrid side that just won the league, made it to the ucl semis, and signed beckham- a player querioz had worked with, and come the second half of the season he couldn't steer the ship

as for zidane, this appointment scares me, i take solace that its interim. if zidane wants to succeed (in the long term) from a manegerial stand point, he needs to put florentino on the hot seat. i see all these managers, they criticize florentino when they get fired or are about to get fired (due to results)...pellegrini only talked about wanting to keep sneijder and robben when he was out of a job. rafa, according to sid lowe only started talking about team balance after the valencia game, ancelotti defended the decision to get rid of di maria, a player he respected, just to appease flo

my point is, it seems these coaches just let flo sign who he wants, if they tell him "hey i need strength in defense", and he ignores them (which i doubt he will), freaking go to the media and say, "i asked for a defender, not another forward", you might as well, you'll get fired anyway if u don't get results. coaches need to quit sucking up and request who they want at the club. i heard rafa the other day saying there was an agenda against him and florentino. news flash, defending flo won't save your job, request players u want and don't want and if nothings done about it, put pressure on the president

mourinho did that when he wanted a striker and valdano kept giving him the run around. so when mou got fired there was a "hey we gave him everything or almost everything he asked for". it tires me when coaches only start becoming vocal when they're fired or almost out of the job
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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by sportsczy on Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:52 am

a lot more to being a head man than just being a technical guy... but Man U fans will tell you that they played their best under SAF when Querioz was managing the technical side of things. They'll also tell you that SAF had delegated the day to day duties of the club technically for years until the day he retired... he focused on man management; motivation and the overall direction.

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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by Bankz on Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:16 am

So madrid are basially replacing a pleb with an interm scrub only to replace him with a pos in the summer? Laughing
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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by titosantill on Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:22 am

he was only assistant manager at utd for about 5 years altogether. one year before he signed with us, and then after he got booted. utd and ferguson achieved a lot without him (and with him too), he wasn't there for their treble. i'm sorry i can't give queroiz those kind of props, and i doubt utd fans would too...the guy gave the green light on signing bebe for crying out loud (now he denies it). he had a madrid side that was supposed to do big things, and it seemed we were about to, but then lost to monaco, lost the league to valencia, and depor and barcelona (who didn't have the best of teams at the time) finished ahead of us.

if he had success with us, i'd be willing to concede this debate. his best times came working under ferguson. ferguson had achieved a lot even without queroiz, i also respectfully refuse to believe fergie just delegated out work and focused on man management/baby sitting. no manager who seeks respect does that...its a partnership, sometimes assistants might run some training sessions,  it doesn't mean all of a sudden the manager would lease all aspects of that side to them
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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by titosantill on Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:29 am

and besides, all these so called assistants that will be working with zidane, we know very little about them. for all we know its some dude who's biggest achievement is training with junior squads; that's the guy zizou is supposed to be getting technical advise from? i was so glad his assistant was NOT santi solari (who i liked as a player, injuries hurt him) as predicted....two novices. but hey, its worth a shot i guess. we've practically run through every coach, even descending to appoint rafa of all people
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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by Bankz on Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:37 am

Can't wait till all the excuses in the world start raining in for zidane from dem fanboys...


Suddenly the fans will now start asking for patience for a new manager Laughing
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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by sportsczy on Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:50 am

i'm just letting you know tito that, starting in the late 90s, SAF started to delegate most of the day-to-day technical aspects of management to his assistants:  Querioz was the one where they played their best brand of footy that's all.  Still won plenty without him...  but he brought some extra flair to Man U

Football evolved and so did SAF.  Very smartly, he realized that he couldn't be in charge of everything and do a good job at all of it...  so he became more of a CEO.  It doesn't mean he wasn't involved..  he very much was.  But he stopped handling the details.

As far as Zidane... this isn't interim imo. He will manage the club next season as well. I also expect him to make changes on his staff depending on how things go the next few months. Hard to bring on anyone in January.

It's also hard to judge him when he hasn't had a preseason to prepare the team, hasn't had a transfer window to tweak the roster... and really can't do much right now other than try to make achievable adjustments under the circumstances. His biggest role is going to be man management and motivational until next season.

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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by Bankz on Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:19 am

Why does zidane need the transfer window? He has madrid ffs so what other transfers does he need to make? If the fans are demanding success from carlo with this team then they should do thesame with zidane. Afterall, it shouldn't be that difficult to copy paste ancelotti's tactics according to you guys..

Excuses pouring in already?
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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by BarcaLearning on Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:33 am

@sportsczy wrote:i'm just letting you know tito that, starting in the late 90s, SAF started to delegate most of the day-to-day technical aspects of management to his assistants:  Querioz was the one where they played their best brand of footy that's all.  Still won plenty without him...  but he brought some extra flair to Man U

Football evolved and so did SAF.  Very smartly, he realized that he couldn't be in charge of everything and do a good job at all of it...  so he became more of a CEO.  It doesn't mean he wasn't involved..  he very much was.  But he stopped handling the details.

As far as Zidane... this isn't interim imo. He will manage the club next season as well. I also expect him to make changes on his staff depending on how things go the next few months. Hard to bring on anyone in January.

It's also hard to judge him when he hasn't had a preseason to prepare the team, hasn't had a transfer window to tweak the roster... and really can't do much right now other than try to make achievable adjustments under the circumstances. His biggest role is going to be man management and motivational until next season.

That would mean Flo would accept this season's results even if they turn out to be poor though? I mean, I think few would guess now that Zidane winning anything this season, the league looking like they may just finish 3rd, and however far they get in the CL, few would feel like they would feel it.

From a rivals POV would love to see Zidane fail simply becos its Madrid, but tbh if it werent it would be interesting to see how he does long term.

sport, could you explain what exactly philosophy u said Blanc implemented at PSG?

And lets see Zidane does stay long term, how do u think he can solve the eternal problem with Flo at the helm - finding balance in the team and keeping all the stars? happy?
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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by Doc on Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:14 am

@futbol wrote:Laughing

Anyway, now we'll see how much actual coaching and tactical mastery a team full of superstars really needs or whether it's just a case of keeping egos in check and motivated. He is a popular figure and an idol to many, the likes of Isco and James will certainly not dare to make faces when subbed if they don't want to get headbutted. Basically, the success or failure of Zidane will shed some more light whether Pep is a fraud or not. :coffee:

Proud For the very least, you always been consistent with your questioning of Pep's methods.

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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by futbol on Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:20 am

Holy shit, a wild Doc appears out of nowhere.

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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by rwo power on Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:21 am

Random fact: Did you know that Zinedine Zidane visited Pep Guardiola at Bayern in March 2015 to watch his training methods and everything?

Source: http://www.tz.de/sport/fc-bayern/zinedine-zidane-besuch-beim-bayern-4847014.html

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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by titosantill on Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:29 am

yeah marca where for whatever reason drooling over that, as well as publishing every sound bite he makes on his admiration for guardiola. matters very little to me, he can go and see those  three old women from macbeth for tips for all i care, all i want is some sanity at the club....never understood why that even made the dailys
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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by rwo power on Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:36 am

Well, I guess when a delegation of famous French footballers/coaches show up at Bayern, the TZ of Munich (a local newspaper) is expected to publish a tiny article ^^

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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by free_cat on Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:38 am

@sportsczy wrote:Nick Laughing

How it happens (and most big clubs work like this btw) is that, either the technical direction is mandated from the club or the senior club's management....  some follow the national technical direction for their youth teams.  

For Madrid, it used to be the national direction.  But when Mou arrived, he was adamant that Castilla was there to serve Real Madrid and not the national teams.  So that was changed to follow the senior team's technical direction.  Been that way ever since.


Absolutely no club follows order from the national team for their youths, and I don't know of any that forces a set in stone formation. Even at Barcelona, where the youth system is the most rigid in Spain, coaches have their autonomy. Luis Enrique used to play different formations at the B and especially different style.


Last edited by free_cat on Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by Art Morte on Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:43 am

@titosantill wrote:yeah marca where for whatever reason drooling over that, as well as publishing every sound bite he makes on his admiration for guardiola. matters very little to me, he can go and see those  three old women from macbeth for tips for all i care, all i want is some sanity at the club....never understood why that even made the dailys


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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:30 am

I don't know why some Barça fans think Zidane has fanboys here. Sports defends him because he's French and he's always had a soft spot for his countrymen.

But from my point of view and several other Madrid fans, Zidane has no excuse not to succeed. He has a great squad and Carlo's blueprints. If he doesn't win anything come June, he can show himself the door.

Nobody is making excuses for him and certainly don't want him to stick around if he fails to do at least as good as Carlo.

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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by Dante on Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:53 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:I don't know why some Barça fans think Zidane has fanboys here. Sports defends him because he's French and he's always had a soft spot for his countrymen.

But from my point of view and several other Madrid fans, Zidane has no excuse not to succeed. He has a great squad and Carlo's blueprints. If he doesn't win anything come June, he can show himself the door.

Nobody is making excuses for him and certainly don't want him to stick around if he fails to do at least as good as Carlo.

I agree , Zidane has no excuse really . He should be sacked if he doesn't do at least as good as Ancelotti imo . I mean , even Ancelotti himself didn't do at least as good as Ancelotti and was righteously sacked after all , why should Zidane be excused ? It all makes sense imo .

Totally , and like you said , Zidane has his blueprints too , he knows the title-winning Ancelotti ways . Zidane can simply copy pasta Ancelotti 2014 and raise his eyebrow , play the same way and just win stuff . Of course fans can only demand Zidane to be as good as Ancelotti , those few people saying he's inexperienced and have 0 expectations from him(wtf?) and all that are clueless , if he doesn't win anything with this super balanced galacticos V.3 team , it will simply be Zidane's fault for not doing an accurate copy-paste of Ancelotti's blueprints. I mean , who's to blame other than himself if he doesn't do as good as Carlo did ?

Of course , Carlo was doing at least as good as Carlo , following the Ancelotti blueprints , but he didn't win anything in his 2nd season , so the sack was the only reasonable thing to do obviously . In fact , i think even if Zidane manages to successfully copy paste the Carlo blueprints , i think if he somehow can only manage to win just the Cup.. i think he should be sacked , just in case.  Definitely , that is what sane Madrid fans should expect and much more importantly demand from Zidane , and dare i say it ? Every other coach that comes after , forever. And how it could be otherwise. Perez really knows where it's at and finally fans have begun to understand really.

Besides , Guardiola did it . Why Zidane couldn't ? Is there any difference whatsoever , no , so Zidane is expected to win or gtfo , logically speaking always . I hear Zidane also has deep admiration for Guardiola and his sporting policies , combine that with the fact that he also has the Ancelotti blueprints and what could possibly come to his defence , if he doesn't win anything?? Benitez had his fair chance , got 4 entire months and a preseason . He failed. Zidane will also have his fair chance , another 4 months and he won't even have to do a preseason , already half the work done for him lel
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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:24 pm

1. Take a deep breath, then count to three. Feel better? Now go to point number 2.

2. Carlo shouldn't have been sacked.

3. Rafa shouldn't have been appointed in the first place.

4. If you're not going to expect something from Zidane then why did you fire Rafa? If Zidane is going to get a free pass, finish third, crash out of the CL and round up the season trophyless then why did sack you Rafa?

5. I merely wanted to let those who started making excuses for Zidane already that he doesn't have a free pass. If he fails, he'll be let go. If he wins or comes very close to winning then maybe, just maybe he might be kept on.
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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by Art Morte on Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:59 pm

Obviously good results are expected from Zidane, just like from any Real Madrid manager. Maybe Zidane has it, like, 10% easier because of who he is and the fact he's taking over mid-season, but good results are still expected.

Surely the fact that there are so few proven, top class managers available right now contributed to Zidane getting the job. In that sense it's not such a sensational appointment; who were the alternatives?
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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

Post by Doc on Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:21 pm

@futbol wrote:Holy shit, a wild Doc appears out of nowhere.

Doc. Proud cheers

Yeah, last year Uni things. Had to do some very extreme methods to ensure I don't mess up final exams like hide my computer and laptop away so I wouldn't be distracted by God's gift to humanity that is PC gaming. So football and GL ended up feeling collateral damage as well.

It's proving tough to read all what I missed so I'm gonna assume Harmonica has finally accepted Neymar is a decent footballer?

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Re: Zidane Sack Watch

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