Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:36 am

I need to rewatch the first half again, but i saw two very clear improvement from anything we had done before in this game.

MIdfield spacing was very disciplined, specially Isco who maintained shape and was following the ball to provide an passing option, more so than running forward to await a pass.

The forwards were CONSISTENTLY dropping back in turn to allow the midfielders to pass forward, and to generate runs on either side. I saw CR doing it, Bale did it and savaged the right side with carvajal, and Benzema played even deeper this game than last (i need to compare how many touches he had between both games to test my theory).

Hope it continues this way

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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by halamadrid2 on Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:37 am

Thats something i noticed too. We saw too much of a big space between the mids and attackers in Rafa and Carlo days. Many times youd literally see a 424. In the last two games though i have seen Bale immediately drop back into the midfield when we have the ball similar to how Ronaldo did it on the other side a couple of seasons ago

Our formations looks like a 4222 when attacking with Isco doing what Bale does but on the other side. That leaves Ronaldo to roam around and Benzema to go where Ronaldo isnt. I have to say i actually enjoyed this Madrid for once. Winning the ball back quick and everyone being involved. Kroos also has his Carlo role back thank god because he is a guy that does the simple stuff good and when he is asked to do more struggles alittle bit. I love those diagonal balls of his, always where it needs to go

Soon we will be playing Malaga away, Roma and Atleti. If we play like this then, i am going to be ecstatic
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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by vanDEEZ on Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:44 pm

Can't really judge anything in the second half. The game was killed off and the players knew it. Sporting were never going to pose a threat in the second half.
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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by vanDEEZ on Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:45 pm

@sportsczy wrote:
@The Demon of Carthage wrote:So instead of playing Kova in his natural position and James in his, it's better to play them both out of position because it's the only way James can survive at Real Madrid? I'm sorry, it's a little bit tough to swallow.

I still think his subs were quite messed up.

It is because James has absolutely no future on the wing for us... none. So you either need to make a him a CM or you have to sell him. The more data you have, the better you're able to make that decision.

The game wasn't in doubt. So it was all about data gathering, good or bad.


Sports - what makes you say James has no future as a winger for us?
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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:52 pm

Bale, three weeks out.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:02 pm

I hear what Sports is saying in that when you play a 433, you want your wide attackers to provide speed and the 1v1 quality to beat players and create chances. James is not at all that kind of player.

If someone ask us to build our perfect 11, choosing any player we want, most wouldnt even suggest James up there.

To leverage James talent we need to line up differently, like a 4222 or 442, something like that. So do we love james so much that we need to adapt the system to him? i personally i wouldnt do it

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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:25 pm

It shouldn't even be a question. The team comes first. If James (or anybody for that matter) has to be sacrificed for us to be playing like gods I wouldn't even waste a blink of an eye on it. He knows the deal when he signed up for it. Real Madrid is the toughest club in the world and every single player knows it.




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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by sportsczy on Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:52 pm

Or you basically have to make Carvajal a wingback and drop Modric into more a cover role so James can roam inside without killing the team shape... that's what Monaco did with Fabinho/Toulalan or Obbadi. It allowed James to be a quasi 10 although his starting position was wide.

The other big issue with it is that Monaco always played a pure 9 as did Porto. So there was room for a creative winger/10 to operate. With Benzema, you don't need it. It's basically wasting a position.

Also, I think Modric is a much better player than James so i wouldn't sacrifice him like that.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by futbol_bill on Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:03 pm

So we are basically back to Flo again.

1. Why did we buy Bale
2. Why did we let Ozil and DiMaria go.
3. Why did we buy Kroos as our deep mid
4. Why have we kept Ronaldo
5. Why did we buy James

I love what Zidane is doing, but I still feel we will be inferior to Barca until we get someone else besides Flo in charge of player transfers.

By the way, it sure looks like if the appeals (fifa and cas) are not successful, there will be huge pressure on Perez to resign over the transfer ban.
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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by sportsczy on Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:15 pm

If there's heat, Flo will just buy a bunch of superstars and spend lavishly so people's attention is diverted... he won't resign.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:17 pm

I think you should stop asking yourself why we bought Bale. He's turning out to be one heck of a player.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by Nicolas Cage on Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:28 pm

Back in the other madrid forum i think several posters (including myself) did a good job at rationally explaining Bale's weaknesses as a player. This included topics such as work rate, positional awareness and intelligence, agility, ball control and management, turn control, ability to function in small spaces, ball hugging, right foot use, etc.

What Bale has recently done is actually get closer to do the job of a smart and hard working footballer but i think he still hasn't reached the intensity and consistency levels needed in top level competition and which James showed from the get go as RAM and even Jese showed (and i guess still does).

Good example of this was the embarrassing difference in positioning that was noticeable when Bale cost us the game against Valencia last year and Carlo subbed him off for Jese, who proceeded to move, run, and defend better than Bale.

Its actually not a great reflection on Bale for him to be showing positive signs this late, and he has already done so in spurts anyways such as against Bilbao and Getafe last season so what we are seeing now is not really revelatory. I'd personally sell him and Ronaldo in an instant.
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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by sportsczy on Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:34 pm

Hard to say... Bale has been consistently good this season. Now he's taking the step to being great. Granted, it's not against the best competition so the jury is still out on that one. But i see very good progress. Let's hope he keeps it up.

Given that Martial went for 80 mil (confirmed today as the actual contract was leaked), James for 90, etc... the market has actually caught up with his pricetag lol.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:46 pm

@Nicolas Cage wrote:Back in the other madrid forum i think several posters (including myself) did a good job at rationally explaining Bale's weaknesses as a player. This included topics such as work rate, positional awareness and intelligence, agility, ball control and management, turn control, ability to function in small spaces, ball hugging, right foot use, etc.

What Bale has recently done is actually get closer to do the job of a smart and hard working footballer but i think he still hasn't reached the intensity and consistency levels needed in top level competition and which James showed from the get go as RAM and even Jese showed (and i guess still does).

Good example of this was the embarrassing difference in positioning that was noticeable when Bale cost us the game against Valencia last year and Carlo subbed him off for Jese, who proceeded to move, run, and defend better than Bale.

Its actually not a great reflection on Bale for him to be showing positive signs this late, and he has already done so in spurts anyways such as against Bilbao and Getafe last season so what we are seeing now is not really revelatory. I'd personally sell him and Ronaldo in an instant.

I'd argue that James might be a better RW than Bale, though with the latter's recent scintillating performances, I'm finding it harder and harder to keep thinking that way. But to put Jesé ahead of Bale? That I respectfully disagree with.

Bale is now tracking back, thinking more, ball-hogging less, less selfish and way more intelligent. Even his dribbling seems to have improved and he's more clinical than ever.

What we need to do in order to be fair to our players is to make sure to admit that they have improved or regressed. In Bale's case, not only has he improved,  he has also become one of our best players. In James' case, not only has he regressed, he has also become very unprofessional on and off the field.

Now, if you had asked me which one would I pick for my starting eleven a month ago, Bale or James, I'd go for James. If you ask me the same question now, I pick Bale.

And of course everything could change again a month from now. Everything changes, and you need to be just and fair every time to make the right decision.


Last edited by The Demon of Carthage on Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by futbol_bill on Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:46 pm

I wasn't saying that Bale, Kroos or James etc are bad players. The point I made was Flo is always buying what he believes is a marketable player and no consideration of team needs nor position.

Bale as been utterly crap for us until this season and it was he more than anyone else that disrupted the balance. And then he and his agent, made this demand / plea for him to play a more natural position. Rafa relented and although Bale was not the problem, his playing in a 10 role was again one of the factors in an unbalanced squad.

What has Zidane done, but to put him in the exact same role that he was demanding to be moved from. Difference this time is he is playing the role properly and thus far (against two mediocre teams) is good.

So although Bale has been much better this year, I'm still not convinced he was a good buy as long as Ronaldo is here. If you remember we got him because we couldn't get Neymar. Neymar is a much better player, but even there you have to ask, where would he play? Exact same side as Ronaldo. Hence the problem with Flo?
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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by sportsczy on Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:50 pm

Deportivo isn't mediocre though....  not at all.  That was a good win.  They played 3 games against Atleti and Barca this season and they haven't lost. They're not elite either though. Those are the true tests.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by Nicolas Cage on Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:53 pm

@futbol_bill: If Neymar would have been bought the year Bale was bought then maybe James or Isco would not be here and Neymar could be playing in a 442 on the left. Food for thought.

@The Demon of Carthage: Regarding Jese i was referring more in terms of movement, positioning, and thinking, can't really judge Jese atm but if i remember correctly, from what i have seen from Jese in some matches of 13/14 and 14/15 i THINK show better stuff than what Bale is showing atm in terms of that aspect of the game.

I agree that we should rate players in terms of present ability (something many in the Spanish press failed to do with Casillas for example) but the subject is also more complicated imo.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by futbol_bill on Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:35 pm

Food for thought! You keep looking for some rationale to Flo's purchases! There is none only marketing considerations.

If Neymar came, it would have been exact same situation as with Bale. Isco was already with club, Ronadlo and Benz were set at left and centre forward positions. Midfield was Xabi and Modric (Khedira on bench). That left the RW or RCM and a midfield (or AM) spot between Neymar, Ozil, Di Maria and Isco. Ozil would leave as he did with Bale and Neymar would have to be content with playing on the wrong side. Do you really think Neymar would play on same side as Ronaldo??? LOL
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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by Doc on Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:33 pm

@Hala
Zidane got that 4-2-2-2 from Madrid legend Luxemburgo and his stupid ass head set.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by Perucho21 on Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:48 pm

Looks like Benz trained with the team and is ready to continue

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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

Post by Onyx on Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:41 am

Good to see us finally playing a pure possession style. Pressing in the opposition half is good, so is the link up play, freedom from attackers, high line etc, it's all there.

Only thing is we sit back in our own half instead of pressing as a unit. Sitting back with a highline is never a good idea.

With Isco there's better control in the midfield. However I don't really see a structure to the possession. Too much of it is in our own half and it's all very predictable. I liked the way we played against Liverpool last season, when we had James/Isco/Modric/Kroos all playing. It was all 1-2 touch and beautiful to watch. Hopefully with time Zidane implements something like that.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Sporting Gijón

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