Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

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Re: Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Post by CBarca on Tue May 16, 2017 10:07 pm

You've gone through all of this and I don't think you've actually made a point?

@ES wrote:Except that is exactly how it works you halfwit, this is exactly how entities use financial indicators, cashflow forecasts, NPV, Payback periods etc to measure the level of return for their investment. No one spends money to make to make a return in 5 years team, in the case of football, intangibles such are factored in. Those examples you mentioned mean nothing.

If you want to throw out a bunch of buzzwords go ahead. You're wrong. I'll call up every club and tell them to stop buying young players. I will tell teams like Madrid that they should have sold Modric after a year because he flopped his first year in La Liga. They should have replaced him with someone Spanish who would have delivered instant results. I will tell Man City to sell John Stones ASAP because even though he is young, since he has not provided instantaneous results, he should be sold. The return on investment for him has been lost. If this was supposed to be your point, it's incredibly stupid.

City started spending like crazy in the summer of '09. It took them until 2011-2012 to win the league title and become a powerful team in the EPL. They finished fifth the season after they started spending like crazy. Real Madrid spent insane amounts of money in 09-10 and didn't win anything worthwhile until the 11-12 season. You say my examples mean nothing but you've completely ignored them. Why do the mean nothing? Because they don't fit your agenda?

You've literally gone on a tangent to my entire post, ignoring the most important part. You had two relevant points, Spurs and Chelsea. For Chelsea, the fact remains that the examples of teams spending insane money and achieving instant results is much less than the other way around. I can concede Chelsea because there are occasional exceptions.

The other relevant point is that of Spurs, which is pretty fair. Most of them flopped. However Eriksen and Lamela have been very good signings (Eriksen especially is now one of the best in the league). It was my mistake as I had misattributed the signings of Dembele, Lloris, and Vertonghen to Bale when they had previously been funded by the sale of Modric. When you combine Bale and Modric's money, you see that Spurs have spent over a hundred million pounds on the spine of a team which would only become a good team 4-5 years later.

My point is that Mou and Pep will be more fairly judged next season than this. This is why I never judge the worth of a transfer until a full season has passed, and usually wait to judge until that next season. Even though Andre Gomes is the most useless player I've ever seen, I still want him to stay on and I would like to see him playing with us next season. I cannot be more critical of Mourinho than I have been. I have said Pep and Mou's first seasons have been failures. However, the idea that both clubs spent a lot of money in the summer and should have expected to win the title is flawed. Should they have both done better? Probably, and Pogba too, but ask any Man U fan whether they regret spending the cash they did on one of the world's best midfielders, who can give them multiple years of prime service because of his young age, and grow and adapt, I don't think they'll say they regret it. The same thing applies to the managers and to the clubs who have spent this money.

Patience is a virtue and you don't seem to understand that simple concept.

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Re: Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Post by RealGunner on Tue May 16, 2017 10:23 pm

Fantastic counter attack by CBarca
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Re: Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Post by Thimmy on Tue May 16, 2017 10:25 pm

Truth: I only upped ES' comment because he posted that hilarious image of Man Utd's away goals stats. Didn't actually read the comment :coffee:

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Re: Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Post by Firenze on Tue May 16, 2017 10:31 pm

will take RG's word for it, ain't nobody got time for these posts

feuds with Unique have spoiled me tbh, only have to dissect a one sentence post with 5 grammatical errors in it on average
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Re: Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Post by Firenze on Tue May 16, 2017 10:31 pm

@Thimmy wrote:Truth: I only upped ES' comment because he posted that hilarious image of Man Utd's away goals stats. Didn't actually read the comment :coffee:


Would just like to say that post is outdated. We scored a goal away at Spurs this weekend.
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Re: Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Post by ES on Tue May 16, 2017 10:32 pm

@CBarca wrote:If you want to throw out a bunch of buzzwords go ahead. You're wrong. I'll call up every club and tell them to stop buying young players. I will tell teams like Madrid that they should have sold Modric after a year because he flopped his first year in La Liga. They should have replaced him with someone Spanish who would have delivered instant results. I will tell Man City to sell John Stones ASAP because even though he is young, since he has not provided instantaneous results, he should be sold. The return on investment for him has been lost. If this was supposed to be your point, it's incredibly stupid.

What f*cking buzzwords? These are f*nancial measurement techniques, just look them up. BC can vouch for me even here. So don't you dare discredit something beyond your minute comprehension. I don't know what you're trying to say with the rest of that paragraph? I've already stated that intagibles should be be prevalent when discussing these, but it seems to have flown over your head.

@CBarca wrote:City started spending like crazy in the summer of '09. It took them until 2011-2012 to win the league title and become a powerful team in the EPL. They finished fifth the season after they started spending like crazy. Real Madrid spent insane amounts of money in 09-10 and didn't win anything worthwhile until the 11-12 season. You say my examples mean nothing but you've completely ignored them. Why do the mean nothing? Because they don't fit your agenda?

My agenda? What agenda? That teams spending insane amounts should have something to show for? Yeah, i'm sure the Real faithful loved that period of 09-12, incredible years, lots of achievements. Your examples meant nothing because you are arguing that teams should wait with fingers up their asses until the investment 'comes good' whatever that means, the fact of the matter is, it is a failure, fans love to attach 'grace periods' and 'oh they'll come around' but in the truly financial sense, it is a failure, in the footballing sense, you have nothing to show for, it is a failure. Performance wise, you can show that the team is improving and getting better, but like i said, people don't watch football for performance, otherwise Sassuolo would be a top 10 supported club.

@CBarca wrote:You've literally gone on a tangent to my entire post, ignoring the most important part. You had two relevant points, Spurs and Chelsea. For Chelsea, the fact remains that the examples of teams spending insane money and achieving instant results is much less than the other way around. I can concede Chelsea because there are occasional exceptions.

Let me offer you and antithesis; How about Milan? We've spent 100m last season, will we 'come good' in the following years because of that? None of our talents and best performers are from that batch. Hence, it is a failure. What about Liverpool in 2014? Lambert? Markovic? Balotelli? Is this the reason that Pool is finishing in top 4 this season? Its the same with Inter.

@CBarca wrote:The other relevant point is that of Spurs, which is pretty fair. Most of them flopped. However Eriksen and Lamela have been very good signings (Eriksen especially is now one of the best in the league). It was my mistake as I had misattributed the signings of Dembele, Lloris, and Vertonghen to Bale when they had previously been funded by the sale of Modric. When you combine Bale and Modric's money, you see that Spurs have spent over a hundred million pounds on the spine of a team which would only become a good team 4-5 years later.

Its no spine if 1 player becomes a core member lol

@CBarca wrote:My point is that Mou and Pep will be more fairly judged next season than this. This is why I never judge the worth of a transfer until a full season has passed, and usually wait to judge until that next season. Even though Andre Gomes is the most useless player I've ever seen, I still want him to stay on and I would like to see him playing with us next season. I cannot be more critical of Mourinho than I have been. I have said Pep and Mou's first seasons have been failures. However, the idea that both clubs spent a lot of money in the summer and should have expected to win the title is flawed. Should they have both done better? Probably, and Pogba too, but ask any Man U fan whether they regret spending the cash they did on one of the world's best midfielders, who can give them multiple years of prime service because of his young age, and grow and adapt, I don't think they'll say they regret it. The same thing applies to the managers and to the clubs who have spent this money.

I agree with this, very good articulation[/quote]

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Re: Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Post by Thimmy on Wed May 17, 2017 1:48 am

ES thought he was on a roll, but then CB was like, "do you even lift, bruh" hmm





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Re: Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed May 17, 2017 1:48 am

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/279379/Fixtures/Gabriel-Jesus

City have not lost a single game where GJ has played in. I really wonder where their season would be if he had not been injured.

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Re: Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Post by RealGunner on Wed May 17, 2017 5:20 pm

2nd comfortably

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Re: Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Post by Firenze on Wed May 17, 2017 6:06 pm

he's a bit of a tap-in merchant IMO, good positioning and movement but not convinced he's the solution long term to a declining Aguero

at least from what he's showed so far
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Re: Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Wed May 17, 2017 6:10 pm

That's all they need though, his movement is absolutely vital to how they play.

I have only seen 3 games so far from him but what he does for their team shouldn't be underestimated imo.

Just allows so much more room for the central players and allows Sane and Sterling to basically isolate the fullbacks constantly.

I feel from what i have watched their attack is very fluid with him, they just need to get better mentally and improve defensively.

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Re: Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Post by Glory on Thu May 18, 2017 6:21 am

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:That's all they need though, his movement is absolutely vital to how they play.

I have only seen 3 games so far from him but what he does for their team shouldn't be underestimated imo.

Just allows so much more room for the central players and allows Sane and Sterling to basically isolate the fullbacks constantly.

I feel from what i have watched their attack is very fluid with him, they just need to get better mentally and improve defensively.


Iheanacho was a tap-in merchant as well. The guy's nowhere to be seen now after being dubbed as (one of the) next best things last seasons.
Let this guy hit a bad patch and let opposition teams start 'noticing' him more. We will see whether he's got it or not then.

Personally I am still on the fence re:GJ. Rashers offers more imo. Sane on the other hand looks legit.
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Re: Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Post by chemicalboy99 on Thu May 18, 2017 7:18 am

@Glory wrote:




Personally I am still on the fence re:GJ. Rashers offers more imo. Sane on the other hand looks legit.


When do we accept Rashford is the next Macheda Januzaj. Is it because he's English that the hype train is still plowing on beacuse if he was Marcus Gashfjord the Swedish sensation then 2 goals in his last 29 appearances is well Victor Janssen levels of ineptness.
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Re: Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Thu May 18, 2017 11:14 am

It's not wise to compare Jesus to Ianeacho tbh, talking about the goals they score is completely missing the point.

City where nowhere near as fluid in attack with Ianeacho, he just happened to score goals as part of it rather than improving the team as a whole around him.

The whole thing just fits, he stretches CBs which allows more room for Silva and De Bruyne which then allows the wingers to either isolate the fullbacks or get in behind.

I honestly do doubt this part of the team is going to fall apart, what they need to get better at is better defensively, when they are on top take advantage and do a better job of retaining momentum during a game.

From what I have seen of them so far, they are not punishing teams when they are dominant, defensively everytime they give up a chance it seems like it might go in and when they allow teams back in they seem to struggle to retain momentum.

All things which champions do not do, so unless this part improves I don't feel like buying 200m worth of players will change much.

Which isn't that surprising because most of the team isn't particular filled with winners and a lot of them haven't even experienced title success.

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Re: Pep Guardiola's adventures in Manchester City

Post by Unique on Thu May 18, 2017 11:35 am

@Firenze wrote:will take RG's word for it, ain't nobody got time for these posts

feuds with Unique have spoiled me tbh, only have to dissect a one sentence post with 5 grammatical errors in it on average
don't waste your time on how I type stuff it could be time better spent on educating yourself about football because god knows you need it. Very Happy

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