Where does England's forward line rank?

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Post by Cruijf Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:02 am

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:His age is irrelevant considering he's been playing international football since he was 16 and has a very poor 11 goals in 45 games.

Doubt he'll magically get better tbh.


Age is irrelevant? Pretty sure Messi had a similar international record at 21 Laughing

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Post by S Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:31 am

Cruijf wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:His age is irrelevant considering he's been playing international football since he was 16 and has a very poor 11 goals in 45 games.

Doubt he'll magically get better tbh.


Age is irrelevant? Pretty sure Messi had a similar international record at 21 Laughing


Yeah,just made a little research on his NT record.

13 goals in his first 44 apps rofl

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:14 pm

rincon wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
S wrote:Muller and Reus dont count as WC forwards ?

I dont understand the point of this thread in that case.


Reus sure, but is Muller a forward? I get that he plays on the wing for Germany, but in my mind I have trouble thinking of him as one.


Where do see Muller then? hmm
He basically plays wherever he is needed from attacking mid to CF and everything in between
To me he's a midfielder, like everyone else that plays for Pep Proud
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Post by M99 Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:23 pm

Only counting CFs, is England's depth better than Spain? Kane, Rooney, Vardy vs Costa, Morata, Nolito. I think that is a very interesting battle.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:26 pm

S wrote:
Cruijf wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:His age is irrelevant considering he's been playing international football since he was 16 and has a very poor 11 goals in 45 games.

Doubt he'll magically get better tbh.


Age is irrelevant? Pretty sure Messi had a similar international record at 21 Laughing


Yeah,just made a little research on his NT record.

13 goals in his first 44 apps rofl

Mole Proud


Yeah and he was rightly criticized for it, plus as if Messi is only scoring goals Laughing

Messi can be the best player on the pitch and not score, if Lukaku isn't scoring he isn't doing anything.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:38 pm

M99 wrote:Only counting CFs, is England's depth better than Spain? Kane, Rooney, Vardy vs Costa, Morata, Nolito. I think that is a very interesting battle.
England wins quite clearly. Morata only has 5 goals to his name despite playing for the bes team in his league. Diego Costa has a very poor record for Spain (1 goal in 10 games).
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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:45 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
rincon wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:


Reus sure, but is Muller a forward? I get that he plays on the wing for Germany, but in my mind I have trouble thinking of him as one.


Where do see Muller then? hmm
He basically plays wherever he is needed from attacking mid to CF and everything in between
To me he's a midfielder, like everyone else that plays for Pep Proud


Get with the program BC.

2015/16 Pep plays only defenders and forwards, no midfield.
Midfield is sooo 2014.

Where does England's forward line rank? - Page 2 Fc-bayern-muenchen-olympiakos-piraeus-formationen
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:48 pm

Interesting. A good example for all the people that think that Pep is an inflexible manager.
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Post by Curtinho Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:49 pm

England could look really nice going forward actually, though I'm not quite sure what formation they've been using.

Kane
Sterling - Alli - Sturridge
Barkley - Henderson

The only problem is it's young and you also know Rooney will be involved regardless of whether it's the best fit or not.
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Post by S Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:53 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
S wrote:
Cruijf wrote:


Age is irrelevant? Pretty sure Messi had a similar international record at 21 Laughing


Yeah,just made a little research on his NT record.

13 goals in his first 44 apps rofl

Mole Proud


Yeah and he was rightly criticized for it, plus as if Messi is only scoring goals Laughing

Messi can be the best player on the pitch and not score, if Lukaku isn't scoring he isn't doing anything.


Messi would be rightly called out because of the insane numbers he produces for his club.13 goals in 44 apps is very average no matter which way you look at it and he's one of the best players of all time now.

Its pretty ridiculous to write off someone's NT career at the age of 22 while taking his goal tally of how he fared as a kid into context.

I have already mentioned he's having the best season at club level in his career so far.You only have a point if he continues to produce average numbers for his NT for the next 3-4 yrs.
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Post by Cruijf Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:57 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
S wrote:
Cruijf wrote:


Age is irrelevant? Pretty sure Messi had a similar international record at 21 Laughing


Yeah,just made a little research on his NT record.

13 goals in his first 44 apps rofl

Mole Proud


Yeah and he was rightly criticized for it, plus as if Messi is only scoring goals Laughing

Messi can be the best player on the pitch and not score, if Lukaku isn't scoring he isn't doing anything.


Whether he was criticized is irrelevant, the point is he turned it around. What he was like at 21 did not define his entire NT career Laughing

And yeah goals are not everything with Messi but his all round play was poor too. At 21 he was average, that's just the truth.
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Post by Ion Creanga Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:57 pm

Is someone seriously judging a player for what he's done until 21 at professional level? rofl
That's a new low level for common sense.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:00 pm

Cruijf wrote:
Whether he was criticized is irrelevant, the point is he turned it around. What he was like at 21 did not define his entire NT career Laughing

And yeah goals are not everything with Messi but his all round play was poor too. At 21 he was average, that's just the truth.


No he wasn't, he was involved in most of Argentina's goals and was unlucky not to score himself:


MS1 from Alfred Andrew on Vimeo.

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Post by McAgger Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:37 am

What the hell else would Muller be if not a forward?

People think he's a midfielder? Laughing
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Post by Cruijf Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:56 pm

He's obviously a forward for Germany but for Bayern no one really knows where anyone plays. Total Voetball (:

@BC

Regardless he was much less decisive then than he is now. The point is he's improved a lot for his NT since 21 and there's no reason Benteke can't as well.
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Post by Valkyrja Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:10 pm

Did I just read that Messi was average at 21 ?
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Post by S Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:21 pm

Maybe not average but compared to how he performed at club level,he was underwhelming at NT level at 21,yeah.
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Post by Cruijf Tue Feb 09, 2016 4:26 pm

S wrote:Maybe not average but compared to how he performed at club level,he was underwhelming at NT level at 21,yeah.

This. Not too hard to understand Laughing
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:04 pm

But you didn't say that, you said he was poor and average,which is patently false. Del Bosque called him the best player of the tournament.
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Post by Cruijf Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:20 pm

What tournament? Messi was 22 going on 23 in WC 2010. WC 06 and CA 07 he didn't do much, understandably.

But yes he was poor compared to both his club playing level and his NT level right now. I don't understand how that's even a questionable statement.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:32 am

Destroyed the world champions :bow:
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Post by Harmonica Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:50 pm

Cruijf wrote:What tournament? Messi was 22 going on 23 in WC 2010. WC 06 and CA 07 he didn't do much, understandably.
What?

18 WC05u20 champion, Golden Ball
19 WC06 6th, -
20 CA07 runner-up, Top 3 (MVP shortlist)
21 OL08 gold, (no individual awards, involved 9/9 goals on the field)
23 WC10 5th, Top 10 (Golden Ball shortlist)
24 CA11 7th, Team of the Tournament
27 WC14 runner-up, Golden Ball
28 CA15 runner-up, MVP
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