Brexit: Should the UK stay or go?

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Post by Unique Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:40 pm

CBarca wrote:Out of curiosity, if you're here Unique, did you switch your prof pic to Churchill in a show of support for brexit? I don't know a whole about Churchill or English history, but didn't he fight hard for the unity of the UK? Which now looks in jeopardy with brexit occurring?

I could be completely wrong tbh, anybody is welcome to answer, I'm just kind of curious. Cuz if so I find it kind of a weird change
no. people were having a pop at England so I put the great man in my sig. nothing to do with the EU. cheers cheers

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Post by Unique Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:47 pm

rwo power wrote:Actually, I'm pretty sure that Churchill would have strongly advised against setting up a referendum on such an important issue. After all, one of his famous quotes is "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

this was the best one.

“Lady Nancy Astor: Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea.
Churchill: Nancy, if I were your husband, I'd drink it.” rofl rofl rofl
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Post by DuringTheWar Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:05 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Also this is amazing:
Spoiler:
Still waiting to see any data indicating #Regrexit is anything other than a fantasy.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:07 pm

Well it has been less than a week. Give it some time. So far, only anecdotal evidence.
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Post by RealGunner Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:34 pm

Leave campaigners' claims before and after brexit

Immigration

The campaign claim: Immigration levels could be controlled if the UK left the EU. This would relieve pressure on public services.

The current claim: Immigration levels can't be radically reduced by leaving the EU. Fears about immigration did not influence the way people voted.

Reality Check verdict: During the campaign, some Leave campaigners sent a clear message that the referendum was about controlling immigration. Some are now being more nuanced, saying the UK's decision to leave the EU would not guarantee a significant decrease in immigration levels.

Contributions to the EU budget

The campaign claim: We send £350m a week to Brussels, which could be spent on the NHS instead.

The current claim: The claim was a mistake, and we will not be able to spend that much extra on the NHS.

Reality Check verdict: Some of those who campaigned for Leave are now distancing themselves from this claim. Some have gone as far as admitting that it had been a mistake.

Vote Leave's Gisela Stuart was among those to make the claim, saying "Every week we send £350m to Brussels. I'd rather that we control how to spend that money, and if I had that control I would spend it on the NHS."


The single market

The campaign claim: Some on the Leave side suggested the UK does not need preferential access to the single market.

The current claim: The UK should get preferential access to the single market but will not have to accept freedom of movement to get it.

Reality Check verdict: The position has shifted from claims the UK could trade under World Trade Organisation rules to one which suggests the UK will continue to have preferential access to the single market, but at the same time having some control over immigration levels.

During the campaign, some Leave campaigners said that the UK outside of the EU would not need preferential access to the single market and would just trade under World Trade Organization rules.

This was the basis of research by Economists for Brexit, who said the UK should unilaterally remove all tariffs on imports.

But writing in the Telegraph on Monday, Boris Johnson quoted German employers' organisation the BDI as saying there would continue to be free trade and access to the single market.

The BDI later denied this.

If the UK wanted to retain preferential access to the single market, many European politicians say it would have to continue to accept freedom of movement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36641390
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Post by VendettaRed07 Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:44 pm

Lex wrote:Good thing no-one's talking about stopping immigration, the discussion is to stop uncontrolled, unmonitored, unchecked immigration


And the terms of which, as it has been stated time and time again, will not be up to the UK if you plan on staying in the single market and take a deal similar to Norway.
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Post by rwo power Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:26 pm

@RG

About the EU budget thing... Here's what the UK really pays:
Brexit: Should the UK stay or go? - Page 26 _8903410

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35943216

So leaving the EU would actually "only" free 161 mio GBP per week which is not needed to offset the UK subsidies that make up 115 mio GBP per week and which the current recipients have to trust they will still receive after they are no longer paid by the EU.

Hm. This reminds me - Norway currently pays about 83% per capita less to access the single market than the UK pays for full membership.

So if the UK wants entry to the single market, I doubt the EU will agree to the rebate in the first place (why should they? For the mess the UK caused they can't expect any favourable special treatment anymore) and consider the full 361 mio GBP per week as basis for the calculation, 83% of which would be 299.6 mio GBP per week.

So it is likely that the UK will have to pay 299.6 mio GBP per week just for tariff-free market access and they wouldn't get EU subsidies out of it anymore. Looks like bad business again, if you ask me.
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Post by Blue Barrett Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:21 pm

Nigel Farage on CNN giving compliments to trump and bashing Clinton and Obama. Shocker. Laughing
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Post by rwo power Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:43 pm

I guess needed to let off some steam as he got dissed by Juncker today:
Spoiler:
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Post by Kaladin Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:48 pm

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/747730290294980608
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Post by Kaladin Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:50 pm

Farag tells the EU parliament that there will be no trade deals with the UK
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Post by Unique Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:38 pm

if leaving the EU is only bad for Britain why is the rest of Europe so pissed off about it.
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Post by rwo power Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:43 pm

@Unique

Do you know the term "divide and conquer"? With the UK out of the EU, the weight of the EU will be slightly diminished which will be favourable for superpowers like Putin's Russia, China etc. The more countries are organized in the EU, the easier they can stand up against the other big boys.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:23 pm

Unique wrote:if leaving the EU is only bad for Britain why is the rest of Europe so pissed off about it.
Because it's obviously bad for everyone: the UK, the EU and the west in general. The only people that stand to gain anything from this are Russia and China.
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Post by Unique Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:28 pm

rwo power wrote:@Unique

Do you know the term "divide and conquer"? With the UK out of the EU, the weight of the EU will be slightly diminished which will be favourable for superpowers like Putin's Russia, China etc. The more countries are organized in the EU, the easier they can stand up against the other big boys.
Russia are not a super power. they have the biggest country in the world and every thing they need to rule the world but they don't have the brains.
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Post by rwo power Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:05 am

But don't you think that makes Russia even more problematic? The Baltic states fear that Russia could invade them like they did with the Ukraine, and it is pretty much only their closeness to Europe in the EU that gives them a certain sense of security. If the EU disintegrates more, it looks more than likely that Putin will continue to expand his modern tsardom further.
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Post by Blue Barrett Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:14 am

ES wrote:https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/747730290294980608

What an absolute *bleep* rofl he really only went there to gloat in their faces rofl
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:15 am

Unique wrote:if leaving the EU is only bad for Britain why is the rest of Europe so pissed off about it.


Because it's bad for the entire world, and we're pissed off England chose to piss into everyone's champagne just because they had an off day.

England you utter twats.
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Post by Unique Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:18 am

VivaStPauli wrote:
Unique wrote:if leaving the EU is only bad for Britain why is the rest of Europe so pissed off about it.


Because it's bad for the entire world, and we're pissed off England chose to piss into everyone's champagne just because they had an off day.

England you utter twats.
we had a off day Shocked
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:19 am

A passing moment of retardation, if you will. I refuse to believe that over 50% of Britain are imbeciles.
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Post by Unique Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:20 am

Blue Barrett wrote:
ES wrote:https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/747730290294980608

What an absolute *bleep* rofl he really only went there to gloat in their faces rofl
yes he did. but I bet he felt good saying that rofl rofl
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Post by Unique Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:21 am

VivaStPauli wrote:A passing moment of retardation, if you will. I refuse to believe that over 50% of Britain are imbeciles.
how long have you lived in Britain
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Post by rwo power Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:24 am

Well, let's say it was a couple of off-weeks with this idiotic campaign where both camps threw around lies, insults and managed to split England apart in several layers.

And all of this was just the attempt of an egomaniac to fortify his power in his party, while another fascistic racist sociopath jumped into the fray to cause as much mayhem as he could to gloat and grab more power for himself.

Oh and don't forget the media mogul Murdoch who just wanted to kick the guys at Brussels into the parts where it hurts most as they patently ignore him and don't jump on his whims.

You don't think any of the culprits would have spared even one thought about what the people really wanted - they just agitated them until they reiterated the party-lines and voted without really thinking about the ramifications.

Too bad that the gamble misfired badly, and now practically everybody is worse off, except for the sociopath who obviously delights in the suffering of the people and basks in the feeling that he had the power to ruin practically everything.

So yeah, you could probably best call it an off-season...
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Post by Unique Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:43 am

who is this sociopath racist you speak of
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Post by rwo power Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:03 am

Unique wrote:who is this sociopath racist you speak of
Who else but this callous demagogue?

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/28/watch-the-european-parliament-boo-nigel-farage-while-he-defends-the-brexit/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/28/nigel-farage-european-parliament-petty-rant-ukip
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:13 am

ES wrote:https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/747730290294980608

I was laughing throughout the whole video, particularly over this line:

"Now, I know that virtually none of you have ever done a proper job in your lives or worked in business or trade or indeed ever created a job"

He's trying to convince other countries to keep trading with his country and yet he tells them that rofl

This dude is a legend, incredibly stupid, but a legend nonetheless. He would kill as a stand-up comic rofl
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