Roberto Martinez Sack Watch

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:10 pm

How does this thread not already exist?

Continuously weak results with a hugely talented team.

Occasional impressions of Everton playing well seem to flatter to deceive. hmm

We can clearly state that he's very probably not 'tactically more gifted than Pep', but he seems to be really, really great at dodging criticism and evading the discussion.

This stops now.

When will enough be enough?
Is he not strongly underperforming?
Should he be losing his job?

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Post by Firenze on Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:17 pm

will leave in the summer imo

aren't they close to a takeover from some american tycoon too

they can attract a top coach, this is the best everton side in forever, vastly underperforming under martinez
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Post by RealGunner on Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:57 pm

A Serie A manager would be good for Everton

Sarri would be ideal when Napoli sack him at the end of the season
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Post by Kaladin on Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:00 pm

I can see Zidane there next season

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Post by ExtremistEnigma on Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:03 pm

Shitty, overrated manager
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Post by M99 on Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:03 pm

Pippo.

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Post by free_cat on Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:17 am

Everton is a midtable team and they are midtable.

As long as Everton is not close to the relegation zone, he shouldn't be sacked at all. He's done well with Everton generally, he can slightly underperform for a season.

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Post by RED on Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:05 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:How does this thread not already exist?

Continuously weak results with a hugely talented team.

Occasional impressions of Everton playing well seem to flatter to deceive. hmm

We can clearly state that he's very probably not 'tactically more gifted than Pep', but he seems to be really, really great at dodging criticism and evading the discussion.

This stops now.

When will enough be enough?
Is he not strongly underperforming?
Should he be losing his job?


Hit the nail on the head by saying they're vastly under-performing.

Martinez's problem is that he can't build a defensive unit. His sides tend to be good offensively, capable of scoring 2 or 3 per game, but they also concede a ridiculous amount of goals.

It's a problem he seems to struggle rectifying.

Edit: My bad, it was Firenze who said they're vastly under performing. Laughing

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Post by free_cat on Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:36 pm

How are they vastly underperforming?
Everton clearly don't have anywhere near the best top 7th squad in the league, neither their spending power. So they position should be from 8 to 14th, exactly where they are.

You want underperforming, look at Chelsea or Newcastle, definitely not Everton.

Also, they are only 6 points away from 6th place, and 13 from the relagation zone.

#kneejerkmuch

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:02 pm

Considering Leicester and Spurs are 1st and 2nd your argument falls on it's arse tbh.

Also they are clearly underperforming, you only have to watch a few games to see that. Position in the table is irrelevant, Arsenal are 3rd but their performances say they are vastly underperforming.

In other words the table lies, he can't get a team to defend as a unit that's pretty much fact at this point and he keeps buying crap which don't belong on the same pitch as Lukaku, Deulofeu and Barkley.

He's doing a crap job tbh, also i never did understand the logic that said team is doing what their supposed to be doing so everything is all ok. Sport is about competing to be the very, very best you can be not accepting status quo. Otherwise why even bother? which is why we deserve to be relegated as we spit in the face of that very notion.

In a way Leicester and Spurs are shining examples of that idealogy, i think that's the main thing i hate about what money has done to the sport as a whole. Nobody wants to compete to be the best anymore, they are just happy to be on the gravy train and pick up the cheques.

If a manager can't consistently improve his team year in year out and show no signs of improvement then his position should be under threat, it's how it works in every other sport known to man and somehow that has been lost in a lot of places in football.
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Post by Kaladin on Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:27 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

He's doing a crap job tbh, also i never did understand the logic that said team is doing what their supposed to be doing so everything is all ok. Sport is about competing to be the very, very best you can be not accepting status quo. Otherwise why even bother? which is why we deserve to be relegated as we spit in the face of that very notion.



+1

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:34 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
In a way Leicester and Spurs are shining examples of that idealogy, i think that's the main thing i hate about what money has done to the sport as a whole. Nobody wants to compete to be the best anymore, they are just happy to be on the gravy train and pick up the cheques.


The interesting thing of course, in midst of the gold rush and spending craze that is the PL at this point in time, is that Leicester and Spurs indeed are examples of teams spending very little money.

It's almost as if they are at the top exactly because they didn't follow the spending logic.

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Post by Doc on Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:47 pm

Tottenham spent closed to 50 million pounds this season though and before that, I think around the 27 mil mark and the season before that, a cool 100 mil. Of course, they sold just as much during each period but Tottenham don't spend "a little".

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:49 pm

Well exactly, because they have spent their money on scouting and coaching. Obviously Spurs have spent a lot as well but a lot of their key players didn't cost massive amounts aside from maybe Lamela and obviously the Bale sale kind of messes the idea up.

It's a good example of how far you can go with having a philosophy, team chemistry and so on. Most of the teams in the league don't really give a shit about those things and don't really build a team.

Which is important, you can spend all the money you want but if you don't build a team you ain't achieving shit.
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Post by Doc on Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:54 pm

I don't know if I would give Tottenham all that much credit. It seems to me they just sign up a bunch of talented players and hope one or two of their bulk buys pan out so they can sell later on. A selling club trying to buy their way to the top. Fortunately, it has worked this season so kudos to them.

I would agree they improved on the coaching part and also on Roberto doing a crap job. Kinda bottling it there. Too bad Zealous isn't around to defend him, would have been fun.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:00 pm

I think i give Pochettino the credit more than Spurs tbf. Since he took charge the important signings have mostly been good.

Ali, Dier, Alderweireld and Kane's development have all been pretty important and he obviously has an idea of how he wants his team to play.

Obviously aside from that Vertonghen, Lloris and Eriksen was there and Lamela seems to have come good and you have a basis for a good team. I do think Pochettino is a bit overrated in some aspects and not shy about letting it known Laughing But in terms of team building and getting his team to play a certain way he clearly knows what he's doing.
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Post by futbol on Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:05 pm

We shouldn't ignore the most important aspect of all.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:10 pm

@futbol wrote:We shouldn't ignore the most important aspect of all.


I'm not sure where you're going here Laughing

Got a few ideas but i'm not sure which one it is hmm
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Post by futbol on Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:11 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@futbol wrote:We shouldn't ignore the most important aspect of all.


I'm not sure where you're going here Laughing

Got a few ideas but i'm not sure which one it is hmm


Listen to your heart. hmm

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Post by Doc on Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:13 pm

@futbol wrote:We shouldn't ignore the most important aspect of all.

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@futbol wrote:We shouldn't ignore the most important aspect of all.


I'm not sure where you're going here Laughing

Got a few ideas but i'm not sure which one it is hmm

hmm
@futbol wrote:Difference is the Premier League is absolutely garbage. Competition is Louis van Gaal's red army, Wenger's bottle boys and Tottenham (who are so irrelevant I can't even bother to give them a nickname). Napoli were competing against Sacchi's Milan, Platini's Juventus etc. Milan won back-to-back Champions Leagues in that era and Juventus also won the Champions League in 85. English clubs in this era can't even get past the round of 16. Laughing
Also, the shape looks good.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:16 pm

There's that Laughing

But at the same time it wasn't what i thought Futbol was going for hmm
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Post by futbol on Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:16 pm

Dawg knows me inside out. Proud

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Post by Doc on Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:12 am

Brothers, not by blood but by bond. Also, you complete me.

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Post by free_cat on Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:14 am

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Considering Leicester and Spurs are 1st and 2nd your argument falls on it's arse tbh.

Also they are clearly underperforming, you only have to watch a few games to see that. Position in the table is irrelevant, Arsenal are 3rd but their performances say they are vastly underperforming.

In other words the table lies, he can't get a team to defend as a unit that's pretty much fact at this point and he keeps buying crap which don't belong on the same pitch as Lukaku, Deulofeu and Barkley.

He's doing a crap job tbh, also i never did understand the logic that said team is doing what their supposed to be doing so everything is all ok. Sport is about competing to be the very, very best you can be not accepting status quo. Otherwise why even bother? which is why we deserve to be relegated as we spit in the face of that very notion.

In a way Leicester and Spurs are shining examples of that idealogy, i think that's the main thing i hate about what money has done to the sport as a whole. Nobody wants to compete to be the best anymore, they are just happy to be on the gravy train and pick up the cheques.

If a manager can't consistently improve his team year in year out and show no signs of improvement then his position should be under threat, it's how it works in every other sport known to man and somehow that has been lost in a lot of places in football.


The fact that some teams are overperforming, doesn't mean Everton are underperforming. That's logic 101, I shouldn't be explainig this.

A manager is not obliged to improve his team every year consistently. That's impossible. Two bad signings and you can't be better than last season. Just do the best he can and improve long term. If one season you are not as good as the last, you don't deserved to be sacked automatically. That's stupid. Luck plays a role too, you know. With your theory, Paco Jémez should be fired because he has Rayo battling relegation, whereas past season they sat comfortably at midtable.

Obviously Martinez is far from doing a crap job. Everton sits comfortably midtable and he qualified them once for Europa League. Truth is Everton team is average in comparison to how stacked are mid table teams in the premier league.

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Post by Helmer on Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:26 am

and why anyone cares about Martinez or Everton hmm

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