Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

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Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by FennecFox7 on Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:36 pm

I think that game proved that BBC isn't the problem. Let's be honest, we've been hard on our front three for not defending 100%, but I rewatched parts of the game, and I have never seen worse defending in my life. Pepe and Ramos have to go. I'm sick of it. There is no tactical awareness from the two and they leave giant gaps between the lines. Also, Marcelo and Danilo are a disaster defensively.

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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by sportsczy on Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:13 pm

Those two depend entirely on athleticism and brawn... which is normal as a younger player. Usually though, as a CB gets older, he learns positional play and transitions into that. Our two beauties haven't adjusted at all. It's just not in them.

As far as Danilo and Marcelo... they're Brazilian fullbacks. That's just how all of them are. Not sure why it's such a shock. Unless you happen to land on a Cafu or Roberto Carlos... they're all going to attack without a conscience and forget how to defend.

Our defense looks exactly like Brazil's in WC 2014.

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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by Thimmy on Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:43 pm

Roberto Carlos was a pretty unreliable defender, from what I remember Razz
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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by titosantill on Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:34 pm

carlos became unreliable in his latter years....i think ronaldo influenced him; he used to be very serious, but that period where florentino had a brazilian football fetish and kept signing a bunch of brazilian players including a brazilian coach in luxemborgo, and joga bonito was the in-thing, its like carlos lost his mind and started playing unreliable footy (pulling his socks during a free kick at the world cup, makaay's goal and other stuff)

(unrelated to the above) i found him more reliable at free kicks in those last few unreliable years, compared to his younger days, simply cos in his older years he took them from reasonable areas, and becks too the bulk of them. i'd still take carlos in his unreliable years over any of our full backs last night, hell i'm sure he'd have more sense than pepe and ramos if i threw him at cb....and his shot won't lead to a counter attack like marcelo's almost did
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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by titosantill on Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:42 pm

there's also a difference between being unreliable and getting schooled by a talented player. i remember effenberg schooling carlos, but carlos wasn't having a bad game; effenberg was just in top form that day. what we saw against wolfsburg was something else.....remember at some point before becks joined madrid, it was like carlos was his kryptonite. i'm never confident these lot can shut anyone down without major major help from the team as a whole....btw our defense is a problem, but its not the only problem....in these games we can't thread any balls through the middle, and creativity is really lacking
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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:47 pm

Last night, all those problems didn't matter, because on paper, we had a team strong enough to beat Wolfsburg.

We lost because most of our players, if not all, didn't play with heart. It looked like they were playing a friendly against a third division team on New Year's Eve.

We played Wolfsburg. They are 8th in the league and had just lost 3-0 to Leverkusen prior to coming up against us. Don't tell me we needed Maldini at the back and Makelélé in midfield to beat them. The team we fielded last night should've disposed of Wolfsburg with relative ease. They didn't because they lacked grit, didn't bleed for the shirt and didn't play with intensity. They didn't even bother to fight back after going 2-0 down. Bunch of prima donnas.

And Z had the nerve to say in the post-game conference that "Clasico exertions may have cost Madrid". Please, let's be real and call it what it is instead of cowardly hiding behind pathetic excuses.

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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by Hapless_Hans on Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:44 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:
We lost because most of our players, if not all, didn't play with heart. It looked like they were playing a friendly against a third division team on New Year's Eve.

We played Wolfsburg. They are 8th in the league and had just lost 3-0 to Leverkusen prior to coming up against us. Don't tell me we needed Maldini at the back and Makelélé in midfield to beat them. The team we fielded last night should've disposed of Wolfsburg with relative ease.


The first sentence is explaining the second and vice versa.
That's the nature of complacency.

A team one 'should be beating with ease', while it's of course implied that this 'with ease' only works if you perform to your standard, or in CL at your best.
But even a tiny amount of 'ease' in the players attitude makes you perform less than standard and far less than your best.

That's what always happens with big teams. Happens in cup competitions every round in every country.

Still can't see Wolfsburg defending this lead at the Bernabeu.

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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by FennecFox7 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:53 am

I saw Bale, Modric, and even CR bust tail although CR was pretty average that day. Benz definitely went hard. Like I said, that doesn't mean jack if our defense is bad.

We got lucky at times against barca despite BBC's impressive defending. It's not the front three guys. It's those useless sacks of crap we have defending.

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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by chad4401 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:33 am

@fen agreed don't listen to anyone blaming the bbc, that always been an round about way to hate on certain players, because their having a good season, bale and benzema run a lot more than fans give them credit for, but since no one wants to single out cr, so bbc gets judged as whole, been saying this all season cause it obvious, madrid fans in general love criticizing and don't know who or what to criticize, as long as its not the popular players.

on the defense ramos is supposed to be the leader,but he lacks the most discipline, he has made 0 progress from when mou moved him, he is not a defender just a player who was never good enough to be an attacker and had to settle, basically playing off reputation more than anything.

pepe even though better than ramos imo, he is done and been done since varane had that breakout year, only reason he is on the team is probably cr sticking up for him behind the scenes.

marcelo one of the guiltiest player on the team when it comes to defense, yet dribbling give best player/half the team hype, he does a grand total nothing other than dribbling, that why dribbling is overrated, makes even the most awful performance decent to the casuals.

danilo is new which is not really an excuse unless your isco of course, but he is in new team and such, so next season is probably is last chance giving how this season went.

carvajal gotten pretty overrated thanks to danilo being shat, but he also gets dribbled a lot and make rash decisions, that leads to pens and such, but he is serious about defending so he has a lot of upside to him.

other than carvajal,varane and nacho, the rest of the defenders are more interested in showboating than actually defending, fans need to stop blaming the likes of kroos, for players not tracking back on his side cause he is not some dribbler.

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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by Adit on Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:34 am

We ran the lowest kilometers in our history  against Wolfsburg... That includes BBC as well. Did they defend? Did they help a bit? Not even the usual bale tracked back. The defense is collective effort, if every one put the same heart and energy into the game  like they did against Barca then we would have won with flying colours.

The lack of running was from everyone.. Zidane blamed the mobility of all the players including BBC so I don't know where are you going with the BBC weren't the problem sentence. They were part of the team and they played their part both offensively and defensively in this lose.

Completely agree with DoC. Last night every single one played their part in the lose. The idiotic back line, lethargic midfield, useless and predictable front three. And the horrible ref who blatantly favored Wolfsburg on every call including a phantom penalty.

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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by Adit on Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:47 am

Zidane went retard with starting Danillo.. When asked he had no convincing answers. Especially when Carvajal has always been pretty good against tricky players and Danillo opposite.

Pepe and Ramos are lost cause. Marcelo is unpredictable defensively. The last generation is badly hurting the team with their lack of desire, ego problems and shit displays. We need fresh bloods and sell the common factors in the 1 league in 8 year period.

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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:25 am

@Adit wrote:Zidane went retard with starting Danillo.

I have to defend Z on this one. Danilo prior to the Wolfsburg game had been playing really well, for months actually.

Z must've thought that, though the Brazilian isn't as good as Carvajal, he would still get the job done against Wolfsburg based on his recent and very promising form.

Z wasn't wrong to think that way. But Danilo let him down.

I think Z should be blamed for a lot of things that went wrong, but the Danilo inclusion shouldn't be one of those things. Not subbing Danilo, that was something he should be blamed for. And if he plays Danilo again in the CL (in the return leg and beyond if we make it) after the Brazilian's horrendous performance, then he's got only himself to blame.

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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by Valkyrja on Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:41 am

Really well ? The standards are really low then.

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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:58 am

He had been playing really well before the Wolfsburg game. Even some of his most fierce critics on GL, including myself, Doc and Hala, acknowledged this. He upped his work rate considerably, improved his crossing and turned the tide for the better. It would be unfair on my part to ignore those efforts.

Against Wolfsburg though, he let us all down, and for that very reason, I think he should pay the same price Illarra had to pay after his horrendous performance against Dortmund: ride the bench until he gets sold.

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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by shadexticos on Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:53 am

Zidane is not to be blamed for using Danilo but he deserves to be blamed for not subbing him.We all predicted and expected Danilo to replace Carvajal in order to prevent any injury. Asides that, Danilo has been excellent in the past 5-6 games.

Imagine if Carvajal had played, we won comfortably but then he got injured, I bet Fans would have blamed Zizou for not using Danilo in a match we were expected to breeze through.

If Carvajal played and we lost, people would still have blamed him for not resting Carvajal.

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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by chad4401 on Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:55 pm

@shade 100% agreed that what i call seeing the bigger picture, no need to jump on the danilo hate bandwagon like sheep, when its clearly a rotation zidane been doing, as i said carvajal is getting overrated, just to crap on danilo is hilarious to me, considering all the pens and nearly pens, he gives up against tricky wingers, "selective ratings" only madrid fans Proud.

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Re: Our defense is the problem; And we need to shake it up

Post by sportsczy on Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:22 pm

Carvajal is more dependable...  but he is injury prone and i think Zidane wanted to conserve him after a very tough Barca game where we defended 80% of the time.  

We were just flat everywhere.  You can't say that Danilo was the only issue...  Pepe, Marcelo, Ramos, Danilo, Casemiro, Kroos, Bale, CR and the Benz injury were all big issues.  You can't sub everyone.  Once we were down 2-0, i think Zidane was more focused on making subs to help us score a goal because we needed one.

In the end, when a team is so generally off, there's not much you can do.

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