Lack of positional play, lack of coaching or lack of personnel?

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Post by sportsczy on Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:23 pm

He was bypassed because he can't be trusted with the ball under pressure or to pick out the right pass. The idea is to get the ball to the midfielders who are best equipped to make decisions with it AND not put Casemiro in a position where he will likely make a mistake.

Makes perfect sense to me.

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Post by halamadrid2 on Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:25 pm

Adit, in the away tie the problem was more when we did NOT have the ball. The CMs were very slow getting back to their positions (not singling out mind you). On the ball we started well but when Wolfsburg grew into the game we couldnt create anything. Casemiro in this game played furthest back. I could be wrong but thats the impression that i got from watching the game. I agree it was a huge problem with them so low down but no matter whether Casemiro is ahead of them or behind them they always have the problem of being too deep in our own half when we have the ball. If you look at games again and watch those 2 closely you will notice that the moment they release the ball to one of our attackers you wont see them in the screen anymore because they have dissapeared back to our own half. They dont follow through with the attack. Thats a huge problem we have right now but until we face a team like Atleti this issue will be masked by our goal scorers


Last edited by halamadrid2 on Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:30 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by halamadrid2 on Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:27 pm

@sport, Kroos is a pretty good example of what not to do when in your own half. I have lost count on the amount of time he lost the ball due to dwelling too long before releasing it when he was playing furthest down. It got to the point that i started expecting that of him. He still does it now but the difference is that there is Casemiro behind him to clean up

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Post by Adit on Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:34 pm

@sportsczy wrote:He was bypassed because he can't be trusted with the ball under pressure or to pick out the right pass. The idea is to get the ball to the midfielders who are best equipped to make decisions with it AND not put Casemiro in a position where he will likely make a mistake.

Makes perfect sense to me.


He can be trusted with the ball though. The way the tactics were one would think it was Pepe instead of Casemiro. Any way the Casemiro going up not only distorted our midfield shape but it also stiffied our attack as the attacker now had the DM to link up with. To have your least technical midfielder further forward is not the way of football Zidane wants to play i hope.

It made our DM leave his zone and weak defenders like Kroos at the hole again. No wonder Casemiro ran the most after carvajal as he was running back and forth.

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Post by Adit on Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:36 pm

@halamadrid2 wrote:Adit, in the away tie the problem was more when we did NOT have the ball. The CMs were very slow getting back to their positions (not singling out mind you). On the ball we started well but when Wolfsburg grew into the game we couldnt create anything. Casemiro in this game played furthest back. I could be wrong but thats the impression that i got from watching the game. I agree it was a huge problem with them so low down but no matter whether Casemiro is ahead of them or behind them they always have the problem of being too deep in our own half when we have the ball. If you look at games again and watch those 2 closely you will notice that the moment they release the ball to one of our attackers you wont see them in the screen anymore because they have dissapeared back to our own half. They dont follow through with the attack. Thats a huge problem we have right now but until we face a team like Atleti this issue will be masked by our goal scorers


Actually i noticed the Casemiro being furthest player in midfield in the away tie itself, i thought it was due to lack of preparation but i was deceived by Zidane.

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Post by sportsczy on Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:44 pm

I don't think so. Casemiro is technically limited and doesn't see the pitch well. He's very very easy to predict as a defender with the ball. You can just ignore certain options that you couldn't if Modric or Kroos have the ball. Not saying he's a bad player at all... But if you want to hold on to the ball and create danger from the midfield, Casemiro is the last player on our squad you'd want acting as the point man for it.

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:11 pm

This thread is a reminder of sharp vs dull minds in GL with this section leaning towards dull.

Adit, you need to realize nothing can be perfect and this team has too many flaws that only just tactics is foolishness.

Profiles, personalities, and tactics make for what we see on pitch. The front 3 has too much influence on the shape of our structure. All it takes is one variable to throw a wrench into planning. CR7 and bale not tracking back is well documented. And that not only forces the midfield to get out of shape, also forces the fullbacks to be more conservative. And since marcelo is an IDIOT defensively, we usually leave openings on the left flank.

Casemiro still new in terms of being in the starting team, ofc Ramos and epep dont trust him that well enough. It doesn't help that both are idiots too. Ramos in particular screwing with the organization pushing up or playing someone onside when he should be commanding it. This is why modric and kroos have to stay back. Compound that with CR7 and Bale not tracking back and you got a midfield who is being asked way too much trying to do everything and the shape looking like nonsense at times.

We can't do much about CR7's ego and Bale seems to be following his example. Ramos not going anywhere anytime soon.
Marcelo never changing. There is only so much a coach can do before the last 2 options which is to bench or sell. And right now we cant do those to any of them so late into the campaign.

What are you asking Zidane to do? He has already done everything he can in the limited time he has been given. The players need to take more responsibility and stop being so arrogant.

And for the record modric and kroos CAN create but being forced to be conservative and safe from both front and back is doing them no favors. James, Isco can do it too but they will leave a hole in midfield doing so which will open a whole other can of worms by itself.

Makes me strongly appreciate the best rb in the world that is Dani Carjaval. Dude is a monster for playing well being put in shit circumstances. If we had another carjaval at lb, you would find kroos and modric having an easier time.

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Post by Turok_TTZ on Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:15 pm

Casemiro is improving sports. Never forget casemiro originally was a b2b mid. I have no problem with him pushing up since he already has shown intelligence of when to push up and when not to. That and he isnt slow, if he messes up he comes back quickly enough. More concerned about our chance creation. Need to get benz, modric and kroos more involved but team isnt letting the latter two do so.
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Post by guest7 on Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:12 pm

Just wanted to add: we're not Barcelona, all of our players aren't meant to track back....

Only manager that makes all of his players track back and press is Pep and his teams are known to be burnt out...
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Post by chad4401 on Sat Apr 16, 2016 5:07 pm

amazing james and isco non existent in midfield again Proud, useless kroos making tackles all game :bow:.

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Post by FennecFox7 on Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:59 pm

@chad4401 wrote:amazing james and isco non existent in midfield again Proud, useless kroos making tackles all game :bow:.

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Kroos making tackles against Getafe, wow, amazing!

Although Isco and James are still shat imo.
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Post by Valkyrja on Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:02 pm

we need to upgrade the midfield this summer. i would offload 2 of kroos, james and isco. bring a dm and a cm.

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Post by FennecFox7 on Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:03 pm

We don't need a dm. For the last time

We do need a cm however. Or, CM's I should say. Pogba, Kante, im looking at you.
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Post by Valkyrja on Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:09 pm

@FennecFox7 wrote:We don't need a dm. For the last time

We do need a cm however. Or, CM's I should say. Pogba, Kante, im looking at you.


casemiro is good, but we can do better. i would like us to go after pogba though. pogba and modric would complement each other imo

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Post by sportsczy on Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:48 pm

Lass is about to transfer to PSG to take over Motta's role... so he's gone. Other than Kante, I really don't see any available player for that role out there... there are others. But they're already at elite teams and can't be had.

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Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:32 pm

Bruno Soriano of Villarreal, Kyrchowiak of Sevilla we have two excellent choices from LaLiga alone

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Post by sportsczy on Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:44 pm

I watched Kyrchowiak for years in Ligue 1... he's not Madrid quality. Good player though. Plays hard. He got bullied in Ligue 1 which is why Bordeaux shipped him out to Reims and Reims sold him to Sevilla for a box of cookies. La Liga is a soft league so that doesn't get exposed. In CL, he'd get crushed.

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Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:55 pm

Kyrchowiak has dominated our midfield like so many times. Also past form does not translate to current form. There is a reason PSG are after Lass despite being meh for us. People change they get better with more experience. You wont get better experience than LaLiga as a midfielder

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Post by sportsczy on Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:14 pm

Not as a DM though, which is what Kyrchowiak is.  You can't sneeze on a player in La Liga without a foul being killed.  It's far far different in CL.

Looks the same to me at Sevilla except that nobody's allowed to get too close to him.  He was always good if you just let him play. But when you got under his skin, he got out of sorts... had a temper on him too.

If the idea is to use him only in La Liga and CDR, I'm all for it.

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Post by Adit on Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:30 pm

Kante is not playing as a DM as well. His strength is stamina and we are not going to use it by paying him as DM. Neither is he tall enough to be a lone DM in our already short roster in defensive end.

I don't think Kyrchiowak is good enough on the ball as well. If Casemiro isn't good enough for Z then Kyrchiowak isn't either.

Zidane will need to buy his ideal DM if he wants to continue next season. No point playing like we are currently playing.
If a DM with great qualities on the ball is must for his game to work then he must make it priority .

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Post by SuperMAG on Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:19 pm

looking for a CM, there are many great choices, say pogba if you wanna spend much, want cheaper, andrea gomez of valancia is incridible, also bazoer from ajax and Özyakup.

if you look at the stats, these are all good midfielders who score and assist like pogba.

see the stats:

Pogba 43 matches, 9 goals and 12 assists.
Oguzhan 35 matches, 9 goals and 8 assists.
gomez 35 matches, 3 goals and 7 assists, but great player.
bazoer 38 matches, 5 goals and 5 assists.

vs ours:

modric, 37m, 2g, 4a.
kroos, 36m, 1g, 11assists, but mostly set piece i think.
casi, 29, 1g, 4a.

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Post by Valkyrja on Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:33 pm

modric is better than all that guys combined

we should push for matic or martinez. 40-50 million doesn't matter. we spend lots on players we don't need, at least spend big on someone we are actually in need of. if we want someone younger, probably BVB's Weigl. great great player, similar to busquets

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Post by terrance511 on Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:50 pm

possible to get veratti ?

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Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:21 pm

Veratti would dribble in our own penalty box and cause penalties and fks in dangerous areas almost at a gamely basis. Lol he can stay in that nothing league. Matuidi on the other hand hmm

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Post by Valkyrja on Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:09 pm

@terrance511 wrote:possible to get veratti ?


Verratti is too similar to Modric. He's a better player than Pogba but the French IMO is more suited to our needs. Moreover, I expect Ceballos to be Modric's eventual replacement. We still have 2 WC seasons from the Croat left.

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Post by sportsczy on Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:53 pm

Verratti is not better than Pogba. Come on now. He has a very defined role at PSG that he does very well. But he's also very well surrounded by other guys to help him. Pogba is asked to carry a much bigger load at Juve.

Also, Verratti just can't stay healthy, which is a huge concern.

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