Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:32 pm

i do not want back ups content with sitting on the bench, neither do i want guys who when called upon can't do anything right. the term 'co-cf' is in the name alone; i avoid using the term 'backup' because i know we'll sign some guy who if we are thinking straight, we'll be too scared to give minutes to, because it will be a major major downgrade, so such player sits on the bench, and when benz gets injured and the backup player gets his chance, we start coming on here confused and asking ourselves "why the hell did we sign such a scrub as backup"


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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:35 pm

llorente in the box? look at the way marcelo and danilo (broken clock theory) cross the ball. most of marcelo's crosses (if we want to call them that) go low to mid-height, so it won't serve tall llorente any purpose.
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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:40 pm

@Tito, there are many players ok with sitting on a bench if that club is Madrid/Barca/Bayern heck Keylor nearly went to Bayern to sit on their bench. It just depends on their fighting spirit when they do come off the bench. They are hardly going to be benched all the time. They will still get their chances from start. I guess what I am trying to say is that it depends alot on the player. For example Id rather slit my own throat than have a defeatist like Hazard on my bench but wouldnt mind Chicha who is less talented than the former but someone you can count on to fight till the last second. This is also why Lucas for example is doing better than our former starters enough to start ahead of them despite not being as talented as them

Edit: what about Bale's, Ronaldo's, Lucas' and Carvajal's crosses. Danilo is not the guy to mention. He is useless
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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:43 pm

Llorente's finishing at Juve was horrific... really dropped off.

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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by Eneide on Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:54 pm

Speaking all Danilo and crosses...he has been the most decisive defender in La Liga with 5 assists(all decent crosses) and 2 goals...

I just wish he could actually defend better.

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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:57 pm

ronaldo only crosses when he plays on the right flank (granted he puts in some nice crosses), but he hardly plays there. bale can't cross with his right, bar some low shot-crosses, carvajal's okay, but even then, i just don't like llorente. and i've never respected that attitude of signing for a club to lounge the bench especially when said players are neither in the early nor late stages in their careers. a backup who the coach has little confidence in, is as good as having no backup. like sportsczy says, u can't just expect them to turn it up in a second after they've been benched for months. and i'm not saying the other cf should cost a hundred million euros. but the staff should do well to scout someone who can push himself and others....i just don't want saviola type backups

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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:57 pm

I read that stat too. But its so weird because I can swear he is absolutely horrendous with his crosses
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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:02 pm

@Tito, you'd be hard pressed to actually find a striker who can displace Benzema who wouldnt cost a dime. CFs are rare in this market. There is no reason why a Llorente, Aduriz, Kiessling wouldnt work well from the bench. And with Benzema's injury trouble they are hardly going to be rooted to the bench. A season is long, you need to manage your squad correctly. Rotations is one way to do that. Imagine paying 40 mill for a back up Laughing waste of money and squad spot. If you want to go the young player route then why not trust the Castilla graduates??
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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:10 pm

pardon me, i don't think i'm explaining this well. the idea isn't to sign an expensive striker, i won't sign say suarez for example only to have him and benz rotate. if you're signing a big name, one has to go. however if we scout well for someone decent, then we should be brave enough to give said player minutes and foster the belief of some competition- even though we'll all know who our starter is. my point is we can't bring in say llorente (since u brought him up), and then give him zero minutes, or have him play oviedo in copa del rey, then when benz gets injured in ucl semi finals, we expect llorente to beast
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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:10 pm

No manager is going to trust a youth product for goals...  energy and hustle, yes.  But the CF role in Madrid requires that you produce from day 1 at a world class level.

And Madrid can easily afford to play anything they want for backups... so why shouldn't they.

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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:12 pm

Or we can sign Griezmann who plays CF really well when needed...  and he plays wide too.  That would mean Ronaldo needs to go though

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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:15 pm

i don't mind promoting a graduate, but the questions are, how much minutes will he get (copa del rey games against oviedo, ponferradina et al excluded), and will he be happy with just being among the stars or actually try and fight for a spot? for me, its down to scouting, it doesn't have to be someone expensive, but shouldn't be some clown who we all know the coach will never attempt to start unless there's an injury or suspension, neither should it be an aged person like totti who might even pull a hip after playing 30 minutes
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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:25 pm

griezmann for cristiano is really pushing it. i respect what he's doing at atleti, i really do; and he is only 25, he's no cristiano, but its not a bad investment....however it seems a highly unrealistic move, considering atleti and simeone, who's probably the smartest guy in that institution.

plus, it changes nothing. the coach will probably have griezmann and benzema starting so it doesn't address any issues pertaining to a backup. and griezmann himself will need a proper backup (unless jese really steps up) he hasn't got cristiano type fitness.
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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by Valkyrja on Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:32 pm

It's borderline insane to replace Ronaldo with griezmann

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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by Valkyrja on Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:33 pm

sportsczy wrote:No manager is going to trust a youth product for goals...  energy and hustle, yes.  But the CF role in Madrid requires that you produce from day 1 at a world class level.

And Madrid can easily afford to play anything they want for backups... so why shouldn't they.


Well, it took Benz 2 seasons to start performing so that's not true

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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:55 pm

If there's anybody who should pack his bags and get out from the front three, it's definitely Benzema. Ronaldo stepped up when we needed him the most and his absence today was sorely missed and the attack became one-sided with only Bale capable of making the difference. The Frenchman is not reliable and his recurring injuries have become really irritating. It's a shame that there are no WC CFs available to replace him with, otherwise I would sell him in a heartbeat.

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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by Adit on Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:24 pm

Benzema injury aren't lengthy but be gets injured frequently and he plays like sheet when coming back and he frequently comes back lol.

He misses lot of important games . Last year quarter final against Atletico, semi against Juve...missed. This year PSG, Roma,... First clasico played injured... Second clasico came back from injury. What the hell.


We haven't won a single league after Benzema became uncontested CF . we last won it when both Higuain and Benzema were sharing minutes almost equally.

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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by Adit on Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:29 pm

I do not want a back up. How about we bring some one of starter quality? It's not like the current CF is tearing la Liga apart. Last time we had competition we won league.

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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:37 pm

@adit, too expensive. unless we're sure it'll guarantee us silverware, benz earns about 6 million euros, maybe more. a top forward will probably sign for more, in terms of wages. not to mention, we've still got bale, cron, james ramos all earning top draw. its something that those in charge will need to plan carefully about and not just rush into; as well as take the coach's decision and plans into account
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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:47 pm

The only problem is that the few CFs who happen to be superior to him are non-transferable. So whoever you're going to bring is not going to be an upgrade.

Having said that, I think it would be a good idea to bring an equally good or at least someone almost as good as him to compete with. That way, when he lets us down by getting injured at key moments in the season or simply by playing really bad, we'd still have someone to turn to.


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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:25 pm

Are you guys serious?  Who's been our top scorer against Barca for the past 2+ seasons?  Take a wild guess Laughing  

How many CFs have scored 153 goals in the last 5+ seasons?  

Of those CFs, how many have 75 assists or more in that span?

Finally, how many CFs have 27 goals this season and how many of them have a 0.87 goal per appearance ratio or better?  

LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

The list is as short as can be... namely Ibra, Lewa, Suarez and Aguero. That's it. Aguero has 161, Lewa has 166, Suarez has 160 and Ibra has 204. Benz has 153.


Last edited by sportsczy on Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:27 pm

Our fan base is so ridiculous sometimes it makes me want to cry....

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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by Turok_TTZ on Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:46 am

sportsczy wrote:Our fan base is so ridiculous sometimes it makes me want to cry....

I think even we are guilty of this too sometimes.
If this lot has this much hate on Benz, can't imagine how it would have been if Raul was playing. Benz is more focused on creative aspect, Raul was more upfront but both are extremely similar in playing style with exception that Raul was the absolute GOAT in terms of being at the right place at the right time. Raul also got similar stats to Benz as well. 20+ goals never usually went over 30 in a season yet few dared to question his quality and rightfully so. Raul was proper elite and remains my most favored cf.

It is because Benz is the closest to Raul's style that I have preference to him. Madrid's starting cf must be Raul archetype. One who can create, exploit space, and score.

Having said that, Benz's creative output recently is questionable though considering he was making assists left and right the last two games, that early knock he got must have really been affecting him this game.
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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by Adit on Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:56 am

Because like I said stats comparison is foolish to begin with. Back in Rauls days La Liga was actually quality and teams won league with 70-80 points. Now days La liga is a joke and 99 points won't win you league nor will more than 120 goals.

Pellegrini's team had the record for most point total in madrid history Laughing shortly after Mourinhos team best that record both in points and goals scored.

The 20 goals in those 70-80 points tough Leagues were actually worth it. How many leagues have we won with such high statistics players btw?

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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:04 am

The Demon of Carthage wrote:The only problem is that the few CFs who happen to be superior to him are non-transferable. So whoever you're going to bring is not going to be an upgrade.

If a person writes something like this, it means they rate him among the best CFs in the world. Granted, this statement alone shows how far the CF position has fallen in quality. But that's not Benzema's fault, I guess. Nobody is questioning his talent. Nobody is ignoring his personal achievements with the club, however minuscule.

Some of us are merely saying that we should get another proper CF (not a backup) and preferably not a criminal. That way if Benzema under-performs or gets injured, both of which happen more often than not now, we would still have a reliable option to take and not be let down at key moments.


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Re: Rayo Vallecano vs Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:29 pm

the lot of you have been pushing for Benz not to have any competition for several years and once that happened then you say we should have a backup and that he is injury prone.

The fact is that most big teams always have at least 2 CF and that is the position that mostly gets subbed in. Why, to bring fresh legs to this demanding position. last year we had a backup, but Carlo had no confidence in noone on the bench and instead ran Benz into the ground. same the year before. Zidane is doing better but he doesn't really have an alternative.

The club is planning on a backup next year!!! Morata!!

Although the lot of you have simply rejected it, probably remembering the player we sold as opposed to the player he now is. He is a far different player than the one who left here a couple of years ago, still developing and much better at this point than the one who was kept (Jese). he is not only going to make the seleccion, he may even be a starter.

He's not as good as Benz, you have said. Noone has said he is. He won't accept a bench role you have also said. He isn't a regular starter where he is now so why would he expect it at a bigger club. There is playing time for both, plus Morata has proven he can play as a SS or wing as well leading to more playing time for him. A move like this would also enhance Benz form, given his playing time is managed and he won't have those lazy moments we all seem to notice from time to time.


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