Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

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Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by Harmonica on Sat May 14, 2016 5:47 pm

Dani Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Most competitive team titles (no fixed or invitational)

35 D.Alves
34 Giggs
33 Iniesta
31 Eusebio
30 Messi
29 Pele
...
23 Cruyff
22 Di Stefano
21 Beckenbauer
17 Ronaldo
16 C.Ronaldo
15 Zidane
12 Maradona


Last edited by Harmonica on Tue May 24, 2016 2:08 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by sree999 on Sat May 14, 2016 6:47 pm

The way he use to attack the flanks in 2008 was a revolution in Barca

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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by B-Mac on Sat May 14, 2016 6:52 pm

I see a tie...with a certain Welsh lad
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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by futbol on Sat May 14, 2016 7:04 pm

Without much research: Xavi, Iniesta, Gerd Müller, Paco Gento and the likes are probably the most decorated. Alves, Messi, Giggs just have inflated amount of Community Shield/Super Cup trophies. Giggs has 9 Community Shields and 4 League Cups, that's more than a third of his entire trophy haul. No one cares.

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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by titosantill on Sat May 14, 2016 7:11 pm

@futbol wrote:Without much research: Xavi, Iniesta, Gerd Müller, Paco Gento and the likes are probably the most decorated. Alves, Messi, Giggs just have inflated amount of Community Shield/Super Cup trophies. Giggs has 9 Community Shields and 4 League Cups, that's more than a third of his entire trophy haul. No one cares.


This
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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by Harmonica on Sat May 14, 2016 7:14 pm

Every fanboy is welcomed in this thread, please share your onions.

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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by rincon on Sat May 14, 2016 7:31 pm

Pretty meaningless stat since the number and nature of "side" competitions changes a lot with time and country. Not hating on Alves, stellar career.
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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by sportsczy on Sat May 14, 2016 7:37 pm

yeah supercups, whether domestic or Europe, and CWC didn't exist back in the day.

The best stat is the top competitions. Namely:
- League
- Europe
- NT Europe
- World Cup
- Copa America
- Libertadores

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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by Harmonica on Sat May 14, 2016 7:38 pm

@rincon wrote:Pretty meaningless stat since the number and nature of "side" competitions changes a lot with time and country. Not hating on Alves, stellar career.
That's kind of true, 14 of Pele's and Eusebios titles were regional, 3 of Alves. Taking regional titles out:

Most competitive national team titles (no fixed or invitational)

34 Giggs
32 Iniesta
31 D.Alves
29 Messi
...
23 Cruyff
22 Di Stefano
21 Beckenbauer
16 Eusebio
16 C.Ronaldo
15 Ronaldo
15 Zidane
15 Pele
12 Maradona

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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by zigra on Sat May 14, 2016 7:52 pm

@futbol wrote:Without much research: Xavi, Iniesta, Gerd Müller, Paco Gento and the likes are probably the most decorated. Alves, Messi, Giggs just have inflated amount of Community Shield/Super Cup trophies. Giggs has 9 Community Shields and 4 League Cups, that's more than a third of his entire trophy haul. No one cares.

Agree though Müller has only 4 league titles. Cruyff, for example, has 10.
Xavi has 8 league titles, 4 CL trophies, a world cup and 2 european cups. But of course the super cups from Alves are worth more rofl
Giggs has 13 league titles though, he's legit. Can't expect international trophies from a welshman.
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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by Harmonica on Sat May 14, 2016 7:54 pm

I'm still waiting RealGunner's expert opinion though. confused

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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by futbol on Sat May 14, 2016 8:04 pm

If I had to rank it in a weighted point system, I'd rank it something like this:

World Cup: 1000 points
European Championship/Copa America: 200 points
Champions league: 100 points
Domestic League Title: 80 points
Domestic Cup: 20 points
Supercups: 5 points

So if, for example, you have Player A who has a World Cup and Player B who has 10 Supercups, it would be 1 vs. 10 titles but 1000 decoration points vs. 50 decoration points (I claim a patent on this concept).

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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by Lucifer on Sat May 14, 2016 8:09 pm

That's so much calculations why go into such troubles when you can just copy paste it from some irrelevant site without actuay thinking over it. hmm
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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by Ion Creanga on Sat May 14, 2016 8:10 pm

What about era adjustment coefficient?
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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by zigra on Sat May 14, 2016 8:11 pm

@futbol wrote:If I had to rank it in a weighted point system, I'd rank it something like this:

World Cup: 1000 points
European Championship/Copa America: 200 points
Champions league: 100 points
Domestic League Title: 80 points
Domestic Cup: 20 points
Supercups: 5 points

So if, for example, you have Player A who has a World Cup and Player B who has 10 Supercups, it would be 1 vs. 10 titles but 1000 decoration points vs. 50 decoration points (I claim a patent on this concept).


Imo you should add extra points for winning a competition the first time hmm
For example 2 leagues + 1 CL +1 Cup is imo > than 4 leagues without CL.
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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by Valkyrja on Sat May 14, 2016 8:11 pm

@futbol wrote:If I had to rank it in a weighted point system, I'd rank it something like this:

World Cup: 1000 points
European Championship/Copa America: 200 points
Champions league: 100 points
Domestic League Title: 80 points
Domestic Cup: 20 points
Supercups: 5 points

So if, for example, you have Player A who has a World Cup and Player B who has 10 Supercups, it would be 1 vs. 10 titles but 1000 decoration points vs. 50 decoration points (I claim a patent on this concept).


Isn't 1000 points too much in comparasion to CL's 100 ? Maybe 500 for the WC is more appropiate

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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by Harmonica on Sat May 14, 2016 8:11 pm

I would probably rank it in actual involvement.

Carrying 1000 points
Best player 600 points
Top 3 player 200 points
Team Player 150 points
Squad player 100 points
Fake player 5 points

For example team players like Xavi, Iniesta, Giggs and fakes like Cronaldo and Suarez would get hammered in actual relative performances.


Last edited by Harmonica on Sat May 14, 2016 8:16 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by Valkyrja on Sat May 14, 2016 8:12 pm

@Harmonica wrote:I would probably rank it in actual involvement.

Carrying 1000 points
Best player 600 points
Top 3 player 400 points
Team Player 150 points
Squad player 100 points

For example team players like Xavi, Iniesta and Giggs would get hammered in actual relative performances.


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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by zigra on Sat May 14, 2016 8:12 pm

@Harmonica wrote:I would probably

Who cares
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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by Harmonica on Sat May 14, 2016 8:13 pm

@zigra wrote:
@Harmonica wrote:I would probably

Who cares
Every onion is appreciated here.

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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by futbol on Sat May 14, 2016 8:31 pm

@Valkyrja wrote:
@futbol wrote:If I had to rank it in a weighted point system, I'd rank it something like this:

World Cup: 1000 points
European Championship/Copa America: 200 points
Champions league: 100 points
Domestic League Title: 80 points
Domestic Cup: 20 points
Supercups: 5 points

So if, for example, you have Player A who has a World Cup and Player B who has 10 Supercups, it would be 1 vs. 10 titles but 1000 decoration points vs. 50 decoration points (I claim a patent on this concept).


Isn't 1000 points too much in comparasion to CL's 100 ? Maybe 500 for the WC is more appropiate


Yeah, maybe. The World Cup is THE prize in football though. A professional footballer gets maybe 3 chances at best to win it throughout his career. Take Xavi: came off an ACL injury season in 2006 and was past his peak in 2014. So he basically only had 1 chance to play a World Cup at his best. CL is every single season. You get a dozen chances to win it in your best years (let's say 20 - 32 years old). So I personally weight the WC extra high but it's not an official formula so you can rank it differently of course. Laughing


@zigra wrote:
@futbol wrote:If I had to rank it in a weighted point system, I'd rank it something like this:

World Cup: 1000 points
European Championship/Copa America: 200 points
Champions league: 100 points
Domestic League Title: 80 points
Domestic Cup: 20 points
Supercups: 5 points

So if, for example, you have Player A who has a World Cup and Player B who has 10 Supercups, it would be 1 vs. 10 titles but 1000 decoration points vs. 50 decoration points (I claim a patent on this concept).


Imo you should add extra points for winning a competition the first time hmm
For example 2 leagues + 1 CL +1 Cup is imo > than 4 leagues without CL.


Good point, much appreciated. My formula is in the alpha state. I will release the final version in RG time. Molenation

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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by Harmonica on Sat May 14, 2016 8:49 pm

Added Neymar as he actually has decorated himself with 14 titles already.

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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by Kebab on Sat May 14, 2016 8:53 pm

@Harmonica wrote:I would probably rank it in actual involvement.

Carrying 1000 points
Best player 600 points
Top 3 player 200 points
Team Player 150 points
Squad player 100 points
Fake player 5 points

actually good point.it explains why Pedro will never be considered better than R9
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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by Lucifer on Sat May 14, 2016 8:54 pm

@Harmonica wrote:Added Neymar as he actually has decorated himself with 14 titles already.

Doesnt matter, majority of them were given by Futbol. E.g Nikemar
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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

Post by Harmonica on Sat May 14, 2016 8:54 pm

@Kebab wrote:
@Harmonica wrote:I would probably rank it in actual involvement.

Carrying 1000 points
Best player 600 points
Top 3 player 200 points
Team Player 150 points
Squad player 100 points
Fake player 5 points

actually good point.it explains why Pedro will never be considered better than R9

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Re: Doctor Alves becomes the most decorated footballer of all-time, Messi surpasses Pele at age 28.

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