Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by Winter is Coming on Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:06 am

There are supposedly others ready to leave.

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by windkick on Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:17 pm

http://www.espnfc.us/copa-america/83/video/2903069/burley-not-surprised-by-messis-decision

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by windkick on Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:20 pm

Btw, if the scores hold, at least all of our players are due to finally start there summer vacation lol. I think the only guy left would be Ter Stegen with Germany and Neymar with the Olympics with Brazil (Rafinha might still play with Brazil perhaps in the Olympics).

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by Myesyats on Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:06 pm

Pretty foolish on Messi's part. He could still have had a shot at the next World cup

Also he's still relatively young and hes the captain of the team which makes this decision a little awkward at the moment

All this is mostly down to Tata Martino imo doe, what a shitty and uninspiring ''coach''
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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by windkick on Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:56 pm

Rafinha and Nerman officially in the Olympic squad

Brazil Olympic team:

Goalkeepers:  Fernando Prass (Palmeiras), Uilson (Atletico-MG)

Defenders: Luan (Vasco), Rodrigo Caio (Sao Paulo), Marquinhos (PSG), Douglas Santos (Atletico-MG), Zeca (Santos), Willian (Internacional)

Midfielders: Rafinha (Barcelona), Rodrigo Dourado (Internacional), Fred (Shakhtar Donetsk), Thiago Maia (Santos), Felipe Anderson (Lazio)

Forwards: Neymar (Barcelona), Douglas Costa (Bayern Munich), Gabriel Barbosa (Santos), Gabriel Jesus (Palmeiras), Luan (Gremio)


Last edited by windkick on Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by windkick on Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:59 pm

Btw, shouldn't there be a section for the summer Olympic games in the Summer games section? Euros and Copa America got a section but nothing for the Olympics.

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by Donuts on Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:00 pm

well the olympics are in august, if there is to be a section or thread it'd probably be late july

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by messixaviesta on Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:53 am

@alexjanosik wrote:It really is a shame for Suarez, although excellent news for us. Just saw a stat about Uruguay in major tournaments(CA and WC) with and without Suarez.

10 wins, 3 draws, and one meaningless loss with Suarez. 1 win, 1 draw, and 7 losses without Suarez.

Quite clear how important he is to them. They are a completely different beast with him. With him, I am positive they would have been one of the contenders for the tournament. He just has that intangible ability to raise the level of the entire team when he plays. Can make even pub teams like Liverpool and Uruguay punch above their weight and become championship contenders. And for a super team like us, he raises our level to the point where we almost become unplayable.

It is a rare ability and difficult to put an exact finger on( ability to raise the level of the entire team and make them punch above their weight). Few very players in history have had this ability and Suarez is one of them. Part of the reason why I rate him so highly.

alex, very well said. What a phenomenon Luis Suarez is. I am still disappointed that the one day he went so completely off the boil had to be a UCL quarter final.

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by messixaviesta on Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:56 am

@Bankz wrote:
So after scoring 59 goals, and winning the double, suarez gets to loose out on the BDO to messi and CR7, yet again? That guy has no luck whatsoever.

Sad but I can understand. Flopping in the most important game of the season leading to your team not making the semi finals of the UCL. Being injured during Copa America. The Ballon D'or podium this year is likely to be made of Messi, Cristiano and Griezmann. Our genius will likely not win. If Griezmann wins the Euro final he has a chance. Else it's Cristiano all the way.

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by messixaviesta on Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:58 am

@alexjanosik wrote:Remind me again why we sold Sanchez? Had another outstanding game for Chile.
We really should have kept him. He struggled in his first season for us and a bit in the second season too. But he constantly improved and was very good in his third season. Should have kept him as he is an elite attacker and has another 4-5 years ahead of him. Even if we were to sell, should have gone for way more. We should have gotten 30 mil more than we got for him(given some of the amounts scrubs are going for).

I can agree but at the same time he wouldn't be a first teamer with us due to Messi, Suarez and Neymar and a player of his ability is so much better off playing regularly.

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by messixaviesta on Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:10 pm

@alexjanosik wrote:What haters? The criticism is well grounded. You can dress up the pig as much as you want. Fact remains that he flopped in the knockouts of the WC.

He is being compared to the GOATS. The standards he is going to be judged by are also going to be different.
All the GOATS have had legendary NT performances. So should Messi. Failed at WC 2014. I thought he arrived in the form of his life at CA '15. Unfortunately for him, it was a very cynical and brutal tournament where the refs offered him little protection. So his dribbling wasnt as effective. He barely moves off the ball and the Chileans closed him down well so he couldnt get the ball in dangerous areas.

The way he plays is not conducive to great NT performances in the modern era. He plays like an old school 10 who walks around as if owns the pitch waiting for the ball in areas where he is dangerous. That might have worked in the era of Maradona and Platini but not now. The modern game requires the entire team to move and cant afford a luxury player like Messi against other elite sides. Especially at NT level.

The question naturally is why then it works for us at club level. Few reasons. At club level, teams can develop tactics to work around this problem. We enjoy 70 % possession and give Messi 50 touches of the ball a game in areas where he can inflict maximum damage. Secondly we have developed tactics where Rakitic does a lot of the work Messi should be doing. He occupies the spaces Messi vacates on the wing, makes sacrificing runs to open up space for Messi. Suarez too does the same. Plus at Barca, we have developed tactics and certain movements to take advantage of Messi's passing. He is exceptional at that diagonal over the top throughball. As a team, we have perfected the art of maximising the effect of that play.
Messi gets the ball wide right, Suarez makes a darting dummy run inside pulling CB's with him. Neymar or Alba makes the outside to in run and Messi picks them out with alarming regularity.

So tactics, possession(enabling him to get maximum touches in dangerous areas) and certain fixed plays that have been practiced to perfection help us overcome the tactical problem caused by Messi's lack of movement.Even then in some games against the big sides, it is a clear problem as it was in some CL games and the return Clasico this season.

Now coming to Argentina. Argentina didnt have these specific tactics to counter the problem. They dont enjoy 70 % possession in games. They dont have a Xavi or an Iniesta who can get him the ball 50 times in dangerous areas in a game. At best, he gets maybe 10 touches of the ball in dangerous areas compared to 50 for us. And because he doesnt move, he wont change that voluntarily. If he moved well, he would be able to change that.
Plus they dont have tactics that can make use of Messi's specific strengths . They dont have a Rakitic who does the dirty work and makes the tactical runs and plays to open up space for Messi. They also dont have forwards and fullbacks who make the type of runs that Messi can pick out with his passes. So his play gets severely limited. He isnt an unpredictable genius like Maradona or Ronnie and when his specific plays are cut off, his effectiveness is reduced at NT level.

UNTIL NOW. What has changed in this tournament? A couple of things. For one, Tata has focused more on possession. Messi is a poor counter attacking player and the 2014 WC model of counter attacking was never going to bring the best out of him. Tata has emphasized possession which means Argentina see more of the ball which means Messi sees more of the ball. Now it is not Barca level possession but it is still more than they used to have. So Messi now sees more of the ball in dangerous areas than he used to see in the past for his NT.
Secondly Tata has clearly worked on incorporating the specific plays to take advantage of Messi's strengths. The over the top diagonal throughball play is clearly a tactic they have worked on in training and they have utilized it to great success throughout this tournament.
You see a lot of players making the sort of runs Messi likes for his passes. eg: The Rojo run against Panama for the Aguero goal. The Higuain run against Venezuela for his goal. There were a couple of other runs in that game. Same today.

So credit to Tata for getting the best out of Messi. He has gotten Argentina playing well even without Messi and has finally helped Messi have a great NT tournament. Tata is a better coach than he is often given credit for and deserves a lot of praise for this.
Lastly credit to Messi for an outstanding tournament. His FK goal today was sublime and the fact it came in the SF of a major tournament makes it even more special.

alex, excellent article. Enjoyed every word of it.

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by messixaviesta on Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:16 pm

@alexjanosik wrote:Crunch game for Messi. It is certain that Chilea wont give him the space USA did. They will be a lot more physical. If he can have a good game and help Argentina win, his standing will improve in the minds of a lot of skeptics(including myself).

You know what I couldn't quite believe my eyes how much space some teams in the Copa America gave Messi. It's as if they didn't know who he was. I knew well that Chile would do no such thing and my worst fears came true. Sad

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by messixaviesta on Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:27 pm

Marcus Aurelius wrote:Pretty foolish on Messi's part. He could still have had a shot at the next World cup

Also he's still relatively young and hes the captain of the team which makes this decision a little awkward at the moment

All this is mostly down to Tata Martino imo doe, what a shitty and uninspiring ''coach''


I won't use the word "foolish" here. No matter how successful and brilliant he is Messi after all is a human being. Imagine losing three international finals in a row. Imagine being hated by a considerable fraction in your own country. Imagine having to deal with an FA which might at this moment be the worst in the world. He has a heart and it broke. I suppose he will come back after some time and with some mollycoddling (which he deserves after all the unjustified hatred) but he is unlikely to win anything with Argentina. This team is cursed, has too many bottlers Higuain being the king of all, key players like Di Maria and Aguero are rarely ever fit when needed and unlike champion teams it's level falls rather than rises when it matters. Come to think of it did Messi's Argentina ever defeat a high quality team in a major tournament?

It's always the coach who should be blamed. Sabella improved things so much and took Argentina to the WC 2014 final. Yet all he got was brickbats after the final. Martino was praised by alex a few days back and now he is a pathetic coach. What will we say if Fernando Santos who has never been a name in European club football wins Euro 2016 ??? That Cristiano somehow got a great coach out of thin air? What about Zidane almost winning the world cup with Raymond Domenech in charge, arguably the greatest clown ever seen in international football coaching along with Diego Maradona?

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by Harmonica on Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:03 am

Apparently Neymar and Brazil booed off the field after first Olympic game which ended 0-0.
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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by Harmonica on Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:54 am

Another 0-0 against Iraq for Brazil.

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by windkick on Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:41 pm

Yea, they were chanting Marta at him and booing. If they don't beat Denmark they could get sent home early (good for Barca, but really hilarious for Brazil)


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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by Myesyats on Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:45 pm

How can brazil be so short in the scoring departament when they got such talent in attack is beyond me.

I hope they get sent home earlier though so i like how things are going at the moment.
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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by windkick on Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:03 pm

I don't think his team mates are up to the task to wear that jersey yet, allot of them are pretty young but you would expect Neymar to be doing better. In all fairness, teams have really stuck on him like glue and he doesn't have any single team mate that can step up and force the defense to open as oppose to sticking on him.

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by Myesyats on Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:02 am

@windkick wrote:I don't think his team mates are up to the task to wear that jersey yet, allot of them are pretty young

Yeah but all teams at olympics are young

(Except african teams obviously Laughing )
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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by Myesyats on Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:19 am

Eh, looks like Neymar and Brasil in general stepped up there game and trashed Denmark 4-0 to get through.

Anybody kept up with the game and can give a little insight on Neymar's performance?
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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by elitedam on Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:58 pm

He still looks out of shape but did look better with his dribbling and movement. He played more centrally so he was a lot more involved right away. His passing and creativity were pretty good and he looked motivated.
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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by Myesyats on Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:51 am

1 goal and 1 assist for Neymar in a 2-0 win. That's great.

Also the assist was to Luan... who finished it with a fantastic lob over the keeper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQoprAHoDtY
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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by Myesyats on Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:45 pm

Neymar sets a new reccord by scoring already 15 seconds after kick off.

Brazil lead 5-0 against Honduras. Not watching the game but it looks like they're doing fairly well
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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by windkick on Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:18 am

Really happy for Neymar and Rafinha winning gold today. Was awesome to see that

I read somewhere Neymar and Rafinha won't be back for Barcelona for a month from today FYI

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by Donuts on Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:28 am

rafinha had a terrible tournament, gonna assume thats because he just recently came back from his second injury.

neymar looked injured at the end of the game so i guess some rest would be great.

them being gone might not be terrible, if turan / d. suarez keep playing like this we wont have a problem.

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Re: Summer 2016: Copa America, Euro & Olympics Watch

Post by Donuts on Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:31 pm

neymar wont be coming back until after septembers international break, says he has a slight ankle injury and doesn't want to travel back and forth from said international break.

makes sense i guess.

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