Change my view: England, N.Ireland, Wales & Scotland should merge into a UK team

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Change my view: England, N.Ireland, Wales & Scotland should merge into a UK team Empty Change my view: England, N.Ireland, Wales & Scotland should merge into a UK team

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:46 pm

- While these countries have a rich and varied history, they have lagged behind significantly since the early years and will likely never win anything of note by themselves. They have not won anything significant in 50 years. Merging would allow for a larger talent pool to draw from.
- England has very little chance of winning something, but players like Best, Giggs and Bale have absolutely no chance of winning something. Merging would allow the smaller countries best players a chance for top international trophies.
- Would promote unity within the country.
- These countries are not sovereign states, they have no representation in the UN (for instance). At the olympics, it's the UK not E/NI/S/W, why should FIFA be any different?
- They could still have a regional cup to face the 4 teams if they really wanted to.

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Post by Firenze on Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:11 am

real and atletico should merge, would be GOAT then

or chelsea, spurs and arsenal
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Post by Jay29 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:13 am

The respective FAs and fanbases hate each other, so whatever logic you can argue here immediately flies out the window. Part of the reason why Great Britain never has a football team at the Olympics (bar 2012 for obvious reasons) is simply that the FAs refuse to do it. Hell, Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales didn't even want a team for 2012.

Also, without getting too deep into politics, Scotland tried to become independent, and half of Northern Ireland want to be part of the Republic of Ireland and not the UK. It's a difficult environment to say "okay, we're going to merge the national teams now".

For the most part, whenever the argument has come up, the response is always Identity > Success. It sounds obvious but England, Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland are different countries in terms of culture and values.
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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:34 am

I don't see why they are allowed to compete separately in the first place. If we are giving FAs, and qualification spots, for each and every separate historical ethnic group then the Asian confederation needs at least 5 more qualification spots for China, at least 3 for Japan, and like 4 for Indonesia. It becomes even more absurd if you open a history book and see Scotland hasn't been independent, in any real form, since 1707. That is over 300 years ago, yet they have their own national team?

Whats next? Philistine and the Olmec getting their own FIFA memberships? Laughing

Northern Ireland and Wales have taken 2 spots that could have gone to ACTUAL nations in this years European championships.

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Change my view: England, N.Ireland, Wales & Scotland should merge into a UK team Empty Re: Change my view: England, N.Ireland, Wales & Scotland should merge into a UK team

Post by Warrior on Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:46 am

Hart
Coleman-Smalling-Cahill-Baines
McGeady-Davis-Ramsey-Naismith
Bale-Kane


Seems like a decent team (each nation is represented)... yet still not on the level of Germany/Spain...
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Post by Firenze on Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:51 am

only bale is good enough to play for england anyway

you get like 2-3 players each generation that can make the team
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:03 am

@Firenze wrote:real and atletico should merge, would be GOAT then

or chelsea, spurs and arsenal
Pretty lame comparison. Club football is entirely different than international. There could potentially be as many clubs as can be started, but there can only be a fixed amount of sovereign states.

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Change my view: England, N.Ireland, Wales & Scotland should merge into a UK team Empty Re: Change my view: England, N.Ireland, Wales & Scotland should merge into a UK team

Post by farfan on Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:09 am

Their clubs and  players aren't good enough to add any measurable  value to England .

Not to mention that a lot of welsh and Scottish fans  literally celebrate England's failures in international tournaments .i don't see them killing off their own football  just to merge with them . hmm


Last edited by farfan on Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by farfan on Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:14 am

Betty La Fea wrote:I don't see why they are allowed to compete separately in the first place. If we are giving FAs, and qualification spots, for each and every separate historical ethnic group then the Asian confederation needs at least 5 more qualification spots for China, at least 3 for Japan, and like 4 for Indonesia. It becomes even more absurd if you open a history book and see Scotland hasn't been independent, in any real form, since 1707. That is over 300 years ago, yet they have their own national team?

Whats next? Philistine and the Olmec getting their own FIFA memberships? Laughing

Northern Ireland and Wales have taken 2 spots that could have gone to ACTUAL nations in this years European championships.


These national  teams formed back when  almost nobody know what football was  outside of the UK . Laughing   They have too much history and their governing bodies have been seperate for a long time  ( The scottish FA was formed in 1873 Laughing ) .
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Post by Warrior on Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:19 am

They must celebrate a lot then Sad
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:21 am

@Jay29 wrote:1. The respective FAs and fanbases hate each other, so whatever logic you can argue here immediately flies out the window. Part of the reason why Great Britain never has a football team at the Olympics (bar 2012 for obvious reasons) is simply that the FAs refuse to do it. Hell, Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales didn't even want a team for 2012.

2. Also, without getting too deep into politics, Scotland tried to become independent, and half of Northern Ireland want to be part of the Republic of Ireland and not the UK. It's a difficult environment to say "okay, we're going to merge the national teams now".

3. For the most part, whenever the argument has come up, the response is always Identity > Success. It sounds obvious but England, Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland are different countries in terms of culture and values.


1. It's obvious that the FAs would be against it as they have everything to lose. I don't really harbor any fantasies that this would actually happen, we're talking about whether it should not whether it will happen. If it ever does, it will not be through some sort of agreement, but by FIFA forcing them.

2. Perhaps this is a reason for why having a national UK team makes sense, as opposed to having separate NTs that only deepen the divide

3. Yes I agree, but identity on it's own should not be enough. I'm sure that if Catalans had their own NT they wouldn't want to give it up, but that doesn't mean FIFA would now give it to them while still being part of the Spanish state. If FIFA were established today as opposed to 100 years ago I'm sure the UK would not be allowed to be represented 4 times.

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Post by Jay29 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:00 am

Northern Ireland and Wales have taken 2 spots that could have gone to ACTUAL nations in this years European championships.

If small football nations like Northern Ireland and Wales can finish 1st and 2nd in their respective qualifying sections, maybe it's for the best these so-called "actual nations" didn't qualify for the Euros.

1. It's obvious that the FAs would be against it as they have everything to lose. I don't really harbor any fantasies that this would actually happen, we're talking about whether it should not whether it will happen. If it ever does, it will not be through some sort of agreement, but by FIFA forcing them.

2. Perhaps this is a reason for why having a national UK team makes sense, as opposed to having separate NTs that only deepen the divide

3. Yes I agree, but identity on it's own should not be enough. I'm sure that if Catalans had their own NT they wouldn't want to give it up, but that doesn't mean FIFA would now give it to them while still being part of the Spanish state. If FIFA were established today as opposed to 100 years ago I'm sure the UK would not be allowed to be represented 4 times.

Maybe FIFA could force them, I don't know, and evidently they don't seem overly bothered about it. I just think that if you have four governing bodies looking out for themselves, with no interest of unifying, then that is reason alone for the teams not to merge.

Likewise, I think unified national team = unified people is a bit idealistic, because there's always going to be that issue about representation. Realistically a unified team would be made up of English and Welsh players - they have players that play at the highest level whereas Scotland and Northern Ireland do not, excluding one or two exceptions. So what ends up happening is Scotland and Northern Ireland feeling like they're not represented enough and wanting their own teams.
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Post by breva on Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:06 am

But, if Britain leaves the EU, Scotland will almost surely leave the UK.
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Post by B-Mac on Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:20 am

heffkzar wrote:Hart
Coleman-Smalling-Cahill-Baines
McGeady-Davis-Ramsey-Naismith
Bale-Kane


Seems like a decent team (each nation is represented)... yet still not on the level of Germany/Spain...


that's a shit team lol

Only Bale and Ramsey would make current England
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Post by B-Mac on Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:27 am

Hart
Clyne-Smalling-Stones-Shaw
Henderson-Ramsey
Sterling-Alli-Bale
Kane
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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:09 am

@Jay29 wrote:
Northern Ireland and Wales have taken 2 spots that could have gone to ACTUAL nations in this years European championships.

If small football nations like Northern Ireland and Wales can finish 1st and 2nd in their respective qualifying sections, maybe it's for the best these so-called "actual nations" didn't qualify for the Euros.



Maybe if those other nations were also apart of a big footballing nation they would have the skills and players to win their perspective groups?

Lets not pretend that being a part, even in terms of just name, of a huge super power like that doesnt influence the manager, and even player, ability they can get.

I mean even England's captain, Wayne Rooney, has a distinct Irish surname. He may, or may not, be Irish but where I am from last names are a form of identification.

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Post by titosantill on Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:53 am

no, the rivalry is too deep. there are things you can't force simply because of footy. besides, who's to say they'll do anything if they came together. it also could hurt the football in the individual countries. 23 players were selected before to represent their country, and it goes down to 4. most likely england will contribute the most players....its okay as is
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Post by ExtremistEnigma on Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:39 am

Just a matter of time for this thread to turn out to be a joke as England are crowned Euro 2016 champions. Proud
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Post by Art Morte on Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:44 am

What Jay said, identity > success.
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Post by Jay29 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:51 am

Betty La Fea wrote:
@Jay29 wrote:
Northern Ireland and Wales have taken 2 spots that could have gone to ACTUAL nations in this years European championships.

If small football nations like Northern Ireland and Wales can finish 1st and 2nd in their respective qualifying sections, maybe it's for the best these so-called "actual nations" didn't qualify for the Euros.



Maybe if those other nations were also apart of a big footballing nation they would have the skills and players to win their perspective groups?

Lets not pretend that being a part, even in terms of just name, of a huge super power like that doesnt influence the manager, and even player, ability they can get.

I mean even England's captain, Wayne Rooney, has a distinct Irish surname.  He may, or may not, be Irish but where I am from last names are a form of identification.

Here's the thing: this is the first in decades that Northern Ireland and Wales qualified for a major tournament. I don't see how being part of the UK gives them any advantage over other nations. There's very little evidence to suggest this is the case.

Northern Ireland especially have to look at the Championship and League 1 for the majority of its players. Again, being part of the UK hasn't granted them a larger selection of players than other nations - if anything they have one of the smallest selections in the whole competition.

I'm not sure what your point is about Rooney's name.
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Post by Guest on Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:19 pm

@Jay29 wrote:
Betty La Fea wrote:
@Jay29 wrote:

If small football nations like Northern Ireland and Wales can finish 1st and 2nd in their respective qualifying sections, maybe it's for the best these so-called "actual nations" didn't qualify for the Euros.



Maybe if those other nations were also apart of a big footballing nation they would have the skills and players to win their perspective groups?

Lets not pretend that being a part, even in terms of just name, of a huge super power like that doesnt influence the manager, and even player, ability they can get.

I mean even England's captain, Wayne Rooney, has a distinct Irish surname.  He may, or may not, be Irish but where I am from last names are a form of identification.

Here's the thing: this is the first in decades that Northern Ireland and Wales qualified for a major tournament. I don't see how being part of the UK gives them any advantage over other nations. There's very little evidence to suggest this is the case.

Northern Ireland especially have to look at the Championship and League 1 for the majority of its players. Again, being part of the UK hasn't granted them a larger selection of players than other nations - if anything they have one of the smallest selections in the whole competition.

I'm not sure what your point is about Rooney's name.


What other FA nations have high priority, or have a high selection of players in league one and the championship? Seems pretty convenient for a small nation to have a ready built league or two in an established nation with which to grow their players.hmm

Rooney is an example of the integration which has already taken place even with different FAs.

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Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:06 pm

@ExtremistEnigma wrote:Just a matter of time for this thread to turn out to be a joke as England are crowned Euro 3016 champions. Proud


Fixed it for you!!!!   rofl
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Post by BarrileteCosmico on Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:00 pm

Wales beat Russia 3-0, just imagine what Team UK could accomplish Molenation

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Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:03 pm

100% agree with you BC and have argued the same before.

It also would give the rest of us ONE good team to enjoy instead of having us waste our time on 3-4 mediocre ones.

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Post by Tomwin Lannister on Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:06 pm

Most generations would have like 9 or 10 English players in the starting XI anyway Laughing

Which would come at the expense of other nations fans, can hardly imagine the Scottish, Welsh, Irish lads taking pride in watching an England XI represent 'their' countries. I mean I don't give a shit anyway but it would ruin International football for a lot of people just for a marginally better England team.

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