Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

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Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by breva on Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:49 am

I am one of older "cough cough" posters here. Suffice it to say, I was young, but I watched the Germany-Italy semifinal in Mexico on TV.

I don't remember the Italian National team from after the Superega air crash when most of the Italian national team died (9 starters). But I suspect that this is the least talented Italian National team since then. Even if, Verratti, Marchisio and Rossi had not suffered injuries it still would be a far cry from even average Italian National teams of the past.

Some are speculating whether this team will even make it out of a group with very historically mediocre teams.

Can a country with a footballing history like Italy (4 World Cups) go into a permanent decline?
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by rincon on Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:21 am

Disagree, the 2010 squad was worse no doubt.

The 2014 was probably better because of the injuries now (Marchisio, Verratti) but terribly mismanaged by Prandelli.

On the permanent decline it seems far too premature. Just recently there is 2nd place EC2012 and champions at WC06.

The generation that came after De Rossi (who is kind of inbetween generations) were a big letdown in terms of attacking talent, almost all flops. The new one seems more promising already.
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by farfan on Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:22 am

2010 was mostly terrible because of the horrible choices , not a lack of talent imo . hmm
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by Luca on Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:28 am

I disagree.

The only truly weak part of this team is the attack, and Conte's Juventus managed to thrive with Vucinic and Matri as the dominant strike force for a few seasons.

The midfield, with Marchisio, Verratti, De Rossi and Florenzi is very good (with the absence of the first two, it is weaker, obviously, but there are still good players in the midfield.

The wide players in Candreva, El Shaarawy, Darmian, Bernadeschi, MDS are again, pretty solid.

The defense in Chiellini, Bonucci and Barzagli along with Buffon has chemistry and experience. This is the strongest point of the team.

I think, what people are noticing, which we have been able to mask through Pirlo's resurgence in 2012 is the lack of a genuine star attacking player. People are calling out for the Totti's, Del Piero's, Baggio's that have not been produced and quite frankly, are generational players.

Anyways, hard work will trump talent and Conte will make a team that works. I don't think Italy will win the Euro, the smart money would not be on that... but Conte will ensure that there is a great deal of effort and heart displayed on the field (or at least I hope), and that is what I am looking forward to seeing
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by rincon on Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:36 am

Bernardeschi, Berardi, Insigne and El Shaarawy are more promising wide players than I remember for Italy in a long time. If they come through, and it looks that way, then the attack will certainly improve by WC2018. The problem is the CF, Gabbiadini? Zaza?

With Verratti, Marchisio and Florenzi + whoever steps up, the mid should be fine as well.

Bonucci, Chiellini, Rugani, Romagnoli, Darmian, Antonelli, De Sciglio, Tonelli, etc the defense is more than set for a long time.

The future looks fine.
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by Robespierre on Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:53 am

@farfan wrote:2010 was mostly terrible because of the horrible choices , not a lack of talent imo . hmm

Agreed. Prime Giuseppe Rossi (not called up ffs for Iaquinta rofl) , prime Cassano, even an effective Balotelli..nothing to do with this attack
Ah, prime De Rossi was a fantastic midfielder, now he's fraud hmm


anyway , probably it's matter of football 's overall quality more than Italy NT .. compare most WC 98 NTs with now...
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by farfan on Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:57 am

@Robespierre wrote:
@farfan wrote:2010 was mostly terrible because of the horrible choices , not a lack of talent imo . hmm

Agreed. Prime Giuseppe Rossi (not called up ffs for Iaquinta rofl) , prime Cassano, even an effective Balotelli..nothing to do with this attack
Ah, prime De Rossi was a fantastic midfielder, now he's fraud hmm


And Miccoli having the best season of his career not even considered . Laughing
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by Turok_TTZ on Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:13 am

Talent is subjective, though talent is a little lacking. Though thats more to do with hoe italians handle their youth more than a lack of talent. Also, it doesnt help that it is Conte leading italy right now.

Never been a fan of his work. They don't make italian managers like they used to.
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by rincon on Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:03 pm

@Turok_TTZ wrote:Talent is subjective, though talent is a little lacking. Though thats more to do with hoe italians handle their youth more than a lack of talent. Also, it doesnt help that it is Conte leading italy right now.

Never been a fan of his work. They don't make italian managers like they used to.


:lol:How did they use to make Italian managers?
If there is a modern coach in line with the Italian school its Conte.

In his 3 years coaching at top level he took a crap Juve to a league title undefeated, he went on to improve his tally the next two seasons winning the league with more points every time and breaking a 100 points in his final season. He got to the quarterfinals of the CL where he lost to the trebble winning Bayern.

With the NT he won his group without losing a single official game yet.

Could not have done better. He is the least of my worries for the NT.
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by Andrew on Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:12 pm

A general comment about Conte. I see a lot of people praising Simeone yet they fail to realize that Conte is the closest thing to him.

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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by Kaladin on Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:19 pm

Because Simeone manages to beat the likes of Madrid, Barca and Bayern despite having an inferior group of players and losing his better players every year. He's not a defeatist like Conte who assumes the match is lost before it even begins (Bayern '13)

Anyways tactics wise, he's mediocre, prefers hustlers and workrate over everything, which is why CL QFs will be his benchmark

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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by Andrew on Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:22 pm

I agree that Conte failed to impress in the C.L but what he's done in Italy with Juventus should not be overlooked.

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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by rincon on Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:54 pm

Yes he had 1 bad season in Europe, 1. Which manager hasn't had 1 bad season?

And what defeatist attitude? He is the one that gave Juve the winning mentality of fighting for every ball and winning every game. The players say it every time, even the NT players say it now. He says the same crap Simeone says to the media every time "we'll play hard... we'll try everything... they are favorites... its difficult..." they say it to take the pressure of their players in the media.

Every week Simeone is asked about the league in Spain and every week he says that Atletico can't compete and that the league is for Madrid and Barca only. Every week he says they are competing for third place until the end where he says his famous "partido a partido". Its the same as Pep saying a team from Cyprus in the CL will be the biggest challenge yet or Mou saying thta everything is rigged for Barca to win. Just mind games.
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by Kaladin on Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:06 pm

Conte is a defeatist unlike any other, guy just gives up before even trying, need i remind the quote: 'When you have 10 euros in your pocket you can’t eat in a restaurant where the meal will cost you 100'. I remember Juve fans here going berserk on him on that, i mean sure you may not have the resources, but you can bloody well try to go far in CL - something that Simeone proved.

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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by rincon on Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:18 pm

Defeatist that won the league undefeated Proud

That should be his nickname, Conte-the undefeated defeatist

Conte had beef with the management, they weren't going after his targets and they kept clashing. That's part of the reason why he left in the end, he said he needed something new, that he didn't have the same motivation, and the management still wanted to keep him.

How is what Conte said worse than what Simeone says all the time?

Simeone: "We cannot compete with Real Madrid and Barcelona" "Our rivals are Sevilla, Valencia, Athletic de Bilbao... our objective is to reach the third place in the league"

^and that was while Atletico were reigning champions of La Liga. Exactly the same tactics with the media between Simeone and Conte.


Last edited by rincon on Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by S on Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:18 pm

Conte loves his moaning and bitching but if Mourinho was in the same position, he wouldve resorted to defeatist comments or Mourinho wouldve just criticized somebody else within the club.
At the time he was too stubborn to accept in taking the blame for failing in Europe and went on to make silly 10 euro remarks.
Conte has had too short a coaching career to brand him as defeatist.Lets see how he does with Chelsea and their endless resources.
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by breva on Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:33 am

@rincon wrote:Disagree, the 2010 squad was worse no doubt.

The 2014 was probably better because of the injuries now (Marchisio, Verratti) but terribly mismanaged by Prandelli.

On the permanent decline it seems far too premature. Just recently there is 2nd place EC2012 and champions at WC06.

The generation that came after De Rossi (who is kind of inbetween generations) were a big letdown in terms of attacking talent, almost all flops. The new one seems more promising already.


The 2010 team was more talented.
They had the same defense plus Cannavaro, and they had a 31 year old Pirlo, a 32 year old Di Natale, 32 year old Gattuso, Camonaresi, Marchisio at 24 or so, a pre-injury Montolivo, Gilardino at his prime among others.
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:06 am

Since before Superga too :coffee:

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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by titosantill on Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:34 am

their issue is mainly in the offense. i didn't like the 2010 team, that side was awful, i felt like i didn't even know a bunch of the players. the side in the last euros was just okay. but that's what happens to all big sides, all big sides go through booms and busts, it has nothing to do with the coach or youth training

i noticed that ever since spain's dominance, anytime a big national team isn't doing so well, people are quick to say "their youth systems are poor" or they don't teach youngsters well...sometimes teams are just fortunate and/or unfortunate and it takes time for players to grow. right now the talent pool isn't all that for offensive italian players, but i doubt it has to do with conte, or the italian youth set up
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by flameas on Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:56 am

In terms of strikers it is the worst. Eder? Pelle? Chievo level players, no Azzurri. And leaves home Berardi..
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by rincon on Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:16 am

@breva wrote:
@rincon wrote:Disagree, the 2010 squad was worse no doubt.

The 2014 was probably better because of the injuries now (Marchisio, Verratti) but terribly mismanaged by Prandelli.

On the permanent decline it seems far too premature. Just recently there is 2nd place EC2012 and champions at WC06.

The generation that came after De Rossi (who is kind of inbetween generations) were a big letdown in terms of attacking talent, almost all flops. The new one seems more promising already.


The 2010 team was more talented.
They had the same defense plus Cannavaro, and they had a 31 year old Pirlo, a 32 year old Di Natale, 32 year old Gattuso, Camonaresi, Marchisio at 24 or so, a pre-injury Montolivo, Gilardino at his prime among others.  


This team has a better defense than 2010. Cannavaro was done and then Buffon was injured. Bonucci was always sloppy before about 2011/12. Marchetti was a horror show for the azzurri.

Buffon, Barzagli, Bonucci, Chiellini, Darmian of today is better than Marchetti, Zambrotta, Cannavaro, Chiellini, Criscito of 2010.

31-year old Pirlo is pre-Juve Pirlo. He hadn't come back to life yet, he was trying to recover from an injury and couldn't start games. Montolivo is who Montolivo is. Don't want him now, didn't want him then. He actually played well in Euro 2012, that the only time he was legit for the NT. De Rossi was the man though, primer De Rossi back then. Marchisio wasn't who he is now either, Florenzi today is at least equal (I would say better) to  Marchisio 6 years ago.

Iaquinta, Gilardino/Di Natale, Pepe was the attack. At CF 2010>>>>>>today, but the supports are worse. I would take Candreva and Insigne any day of the week over Iaquinta and Pepe.

What we could see at the EC:

Buffon

Barzagli Bonucci Chiellini

Candreva Florenzi De Rossi Parolo Darmian

Insigne Pelle

What we saw at WC2010

Gilardino Iaquinta

Marchisio De Rossi Montolivo Pepe

Criscito Chiellini Cannavaro Zambrotta

Marchetti

Today's team wins it without question for me.
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by breva on Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:40 am

That's your opinion, but as another poster said, I was being generous, this is the worst Italian National team ever, not just after Superego.
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by rincon on Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:41 am

But what about the 2010 squad is better?
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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by sportsczy on Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:09 am

It is the worse that I've ever seen... aging defenders, no depth in the midfield that is mostly also aging, talented but very unproven wing players, absolutely no CF.

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Re: Italian National Team worst ever since after Superga?

Post by S on Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:58 am

Well lets not forget two of Italy's best midfielders(best players actually) are injured.

Again,too much emphasis put on age especially the defense.As far as i know, its still one of Italy's strengths.

The forwardline has looked cack for a while now.There's no denying that.But this squad is without a doubt 2x better than the trash 2010 squad.
Lippi picked a lot of Juventus flops who were coming at the back off trash seasons.

Not like now.Not comparable at all.
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