Next season's midfield

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Next season's midfield

Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:37 pm

If we do land Pogba and James departs, what will the midfield look like?

The most obvious would be Modric, Casemiro, Pogba.

But does a Modric Pogba, allow the flexibility to play and AM in between them?

It wouldn't against some teams, but I'm wondering (thinking about Isco and possibly Asensio here or even James) if this altered formation allows Zidane to use AMs in their normal role again?

The other option is where to play Kroos? Could he go back to the DLM again or would he be rotated with Pogba and Modric?

Logic says if Pogba does come one of Kroos or Isco will likely leave, but it doesn't sound like club is considering that (could simply be wait until we see if we get Pogba before making any such moves).

Other questions are they going to get another DM to rotate / backup Casemiro. The two reported targets (Krammer and Kante) are reportedly already in negotiations with other teams.

Then there is the possible departure of Kovacic to Juve.

I know several of you prefer Kroos, but the club did say they would pursue players if it does improve team and Pogba reportedly has put a 120M offer from Man U / Mou on hold waiting to see what Madrid will do, saying his preferred team is Madrid.

So what are your opinions?
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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by titosantill on Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:07 am

if you play 3 players in midfield and you still want an attacking midfielder, what happens to bale and cristiano? you may suggest, well bale and cristiano know how to score so they should play as strikers. well, we know cristiano doesn't like it, and isn't so comfortable in that role. bale as a second striker would have to be a little selfless, look to make the pass first. not sure that's his game.

also it would mean ignoring attacking from the flanks- marcelo is not a good crosser of the ball, he'll need cristiano down the flanks with him for build up plays and not in the middle. carvajal is okay at crossing; he's no becks or figo, but with bale and cron playing centrally it'll heap more offensive work on carvajal from the right side

bale and cron could keep their positions, and have an attacking mid, but it'll mean the attacking mid has to put up crazy numbers. i know stats aren't the end all be all, but benzema ended the season with 28 goals in all competitions. in most of his seasons with us, he has been able to tally over 20 goals which, despite this era of cristiano, messi and now suarez; the goal tally isn't something to be frowned at.

its one thing to replace him with another striker, but an attacking midfielder? no attacking midfielder will put up the goal numbers benzema puts up. and no attacking midfielder is going to put up enough assists to account for his goals, and the goals needed to get us to a league title...i'm saying an attacking midfielder since he can't get us 28 goals, i'm looking at 30 assists and above. i think only ozil could get such numbers, but he won't fit in a such system with no forward, and i'm not interested in an ozil return

you want an attacking midfielder, the only realistic formation is 4 2 3 1.....and that won't work with a midfield pair of modric and kroos/pogba. even a modric and casemiro partnership will place too much work on casemiro's shoulders
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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by futbol_bill on Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:31 am

Tito, you misunderstood my question re AM. In all cases, I'm assuming a 4-3-3 formation, normally with a DM, between Two CMs. The aberation to the AM question was an AM between the two CMs.
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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by titosantill on Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:55 am

an attacking midfielder between two CMs is too offensive imo. we've gone through this before. james (isco), modric and kroos was basically that under ancelotti. the only difference being that james was sometimes asked to play a little deeper than an offensive mid to provide some more defensive cover for both kroos and modric, who aren't dirty job type midfielders, especially not kroos. getting pogba and yet another attacking midfielder is exactly florentino-type thinking

who will defend? think of it this way; in a midfield trio, all 3 midfielders shouldn't love to play with the ball. there has to be at least one (Sometimes even two) who can say "my job is to make sure the opposing midfielders do not enjoy the ball, at the same time, the ball should not be at my feet for that long". pogba is a fantastic player, if the club is signing him, his competition should be kroos or modric; not casemiro. pogba loves playing the football at his feet, cos he's physical and strong doesn't automatically mean he's a DM or he's a player who loves to chase after opponents
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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by titosantill on Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:03 am

whether we like it or not we need someone in midfield whose play isn't pretty. casemiro has been fantastic, i'd like a backup in the event of injury....i DO NOT want to see a midfield trio or quartet of offensive players, we've done that time and time again, by now we should have learned something from it. i don't mind us signing pogba, he's good, and he's young, but not to replace the DM cos from what i watch, that's not his style. he is better with the ball than chasing players around

the problem is, even with him i don't see the issues we have pertaining to creativity as being solved. i like the 4 2 3 1, cos of the creative outlet, but it gets tasking on the midfield duo and one often ends up complaining that the attacking mid is providing no help defensively
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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by futbol_bill on Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:47 am

Again, I wasn't saying that we should play the scenario of an Am between two CMs as the lineup we use most of the time. I believe I did say the normal formation would be Modric (I believe he wins heads down over Kroos), Casemiro and Pogba. I also hope they do sign another Dm to rotate / backup Casemiro, but thus far the two targets mentioned are in negotiations or have already signed with other teams.

However my question (in regards to AMs) was, particularly since we don't use AMs anymore and with Isco, possibly James and now possibly Asensio on roster, could we go with that more offensive lineup against some teams or perhaps later in some games?

If the answer is no, then we should be looking to get rid of Isco, keeping Kroos, getting rid of James and probably selling Asensio? In other words what's the point of having Ams if we have no intention of ever using their basic / natural skills and roles?

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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Turok_TTZ on Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:56 am

I would wait first. We still havent shown our hand yet.
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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by titosantill on Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:00 am

i'm not sure if we can even go with that line up later in games particularly cos none of them have proved to be reliable subs. mr isco comes in, doesn't play one good pass, loses the ball and doesn't chase after it. james who imo is a much better footballer than isco doesn't get a shot probably because he isn't impressing the coaching staff in training or something. has only looked motivated maybe in that game against getafe in the second half...too expensive to have on the bench, i think they'll sell him. the isco as cm backup experiment will sadly continue, and i think the same will happen to asensio...if the club sells kroos
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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by shadexticos on Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:35 am

Its going to be a long summer filled with debates

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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by sportsczy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:17 am

Pogba is the attacking midfielder for Juve... but he's like Vieira in the sense that he runs back to his own box to defend too. With his long strides, he covers a ton of ground.

He had 9 goals and 15 assists for Juve this season remember.

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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by futbol_bill on Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:25 pm

Let me put this another way. Rumored to be coming in are Pogba, a defensive midfielder and possibly Asensio. That together with holdovers Modric, Casemiro, Kroos, Isco, James and Kovacic makes for 8, maybe 9 for midfield.

In your opinion, who goes and who are the starters vs the reserves?
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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by sportsczy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:43 pm

Casemiro-Modric-Pogba would start and Isco + Kovacic + backup DM would come off the bench. Kroos and James would be gone. Asensio would only come back if one of Isco or Kova is loaned out or sold too.

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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Valkyrja on Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:46 pm

Yeah, if Pogba comes Kroos will leave. Unlike Isco, he won't accept a rotational role, he wants to be a FT starter.

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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Adit on Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:56 pm

Well when Pogba comes knowing Florentino what is going to happen is Casemiro will go to bench.

We will be playing a midfield of pogba-kroos-modric , quote me on this.

Pogba will destabilize the current midfield. A pogba-kroos-modric can work in any other team but when bbc already there, I doubt.

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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by sportsczy on Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:01 pm

No way Zidane benches Casemiro... he did almost bench Kroos however but neither Isco nor James stepped up so Kroos held on. If Isco or James had been good when playing the LCM, Kroos wouldn't have moved from the deep playing mid into that role.

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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by futbol_bill on Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:21 pm

I'm wondering if we might get some answers next week when Madrid and Juve meet! They are talking about Kovacic, Isco, Morata and I would assume Pogba. Also Pogba's agent met with Perez yesterday or maybe it was this morning.

Other factors are Zidane keeps saying he likes entire squad and doesn't want any to go, incuding Isco and James. James is playing really well with Columbia. Club is preparing renewal or extension for Isco.
Rumours keep coming out about Jese and Kovacic being loaned if they, particularly Jese can be guaranteed starter status.

I'm wondering with Jese rumour and James improving, could it be James as the backup to Ronaldo, ie forget about him as a MF option.

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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:08 pm

james a back up for ronaldo? are you serious? james cant play in our team and be good unless we give him the same freedom he has with colombia or we change the entire system to accomodate. And unless i am missing something, who the fck is he to command such change? no thank you.

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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by The Madrid One on Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:30 pm

I'd say that Isco probably won't leave this summer because he can still be useful as a bit of a 13th or 14th man that can play as a midfielder and forward. The crowd, manager, and probably him as well likely want to remain together.

Having said that, i think Asensio probably wouldn't come until 17-18, which is a date where Isco might decide to leave.

James should go, and if Pogba comes i think i see Kovacic loaned out and our midfield options as Modric, Kroos, Casemiro, Pogba, Isco. With Kroos and Casemiro changing places depending on circumstance. Idk, maybe something like that. There will be injuries and 3 different competitions where we need top quality.

BBC nonetheless halts us and if anything i think i'd like to see a superstar join that could both mean the end to Benzema (since the other 2 seem more untouchable to me atm) but also bring a game with more equilibrium specifically at the left flank.

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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Valkyrja on Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:59 pm

Regarding the James being Ronaldo's backup comment, I don't think he would be OK with playing 5 matches a season Laughing

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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by titosantill on Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:58 pm

@Valkyrja wrote:Regarding the James being Ronaldo's backup comment, I don't think he would be OK with playing 5 matches a season Laughing


good point, a back up to a player that's professional, hardly gets injured and wants to play and score in every game, whether its a copa del rey game against a low side or the biggest match. yeah james won't get that many games being his back up....and to pay such wages for just five games, coupled with the price tag he came with? nada
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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Adit on Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:38 am

Still time left to save 120 million lol.

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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Adit on Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:41 am

Also Kante was amazing in the DM role.

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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Cyborg on Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:22 am

Navas
Carvajal-Varane-Ramos-Marcelo
Casemiro
Modric-Kroos
Pogba
Bale-Ronaldo

a 4-3-3 with a diamond midfield. no width, even with two supposed wingers in the side. Marcelo and Carvajal will have to be super wing backs.

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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Valkyrja on Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:27 am

I'm all for buying Kante tbh, phenomenal player

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Re: Next season's midfield

Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:53 am

Just keep that Pogba away from my team next season. Everytime I watch him he is underwhelming. Jeez how overrated can one be
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Re: Next season's midfield

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