Next season's midfield

Page 3 of 6 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Makaveli on Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:12 pm

If Pogba can act like an engine for the team, a hard worker in both attack and defense, I have no problem for him coming here. If he can't Id rather have a hard working box to box MF like Matuidi.

Makaveli
Prospect
Prospect

Posts : 3
Join date : 2016-06-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by sportsczy on Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:27 pm

Matuidi doesn't solve our problems... we lack creativity in the midfield. That's why Zidane wants Pogba. Matuidi isn't creative either. In fact, many in France are lamenting that Matuidi is being overrated right now. He's causing our midfield problems as he now thinks he's a scorer and has left Evra all alone defensively. He's also not working hard enough to create options for his other midfield mates.

Kante is the one to get if you want a profile like that.

_________________
avatar
sportsczy
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 14062
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by sportsczy on Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:30 pm

I think you guys are missing why Pogba is considered so valuable and guys like Kroos aren't.... the creativity and attacking ability from a midfielder that is also physical and fast is RARE. If there were several players that had this profile, the price wouldn't be what it is. But since Pogba's skillset is unique and necessary, his market is way up there.

His type of skillset is as rare as a CFs... so the pricing seems detached from reality when it really has to do with supply/demand.

_________________
avatar
sportsczy
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 14062
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by guest7 on Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:24 pm

Basically he is everything Isco should have been.

You guys have been begging for a Özil as a CM and here you get him yet you hear complaints from people who obviously dont watch him.

_________________
CHAT SHIT
MESSI SHIT
avatar
guest7
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 6840
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:27 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Evidence?  How about Pogba is considered the best midfielder in Serie A the past two seasons for those who actually follow Serie A and the Italian media.  He's a superstar.  Why do you think Juve fans are going mental with the prospect of losing him?

In no universe is Kroos considered a superstar or one of the best at anything in terms of being a midfielder...  never has and never will be.  He's always been considered a good midfielder and nothing more.

People forget what a horror show Kroos was the second half of last season and this season until mid Feb.
Is being the best midfielder in italy in today's age when they have only 1 competitive team at european level is a standard nowadays? i dont think so.

I have immense respect for what Pogba is doing, i rate him a lot, but to go as far as saying that Pogba is miles ahead of Kroos is ridiculous. I dont even know how you can type stuff like that. I guess the bias because he is french and you always fiercely defends all things french like benzema, blanc etc... but this is pushing it

Being a superstar is not a footballing concept, it's a media concept, a media creation, it goes with the style, the type of goals you can score, the way you carry yourself, the popularity you have with kids and youtube lovers around.

"Being a superstar" is a qualifier that bears no football acumen whatsoever, because the list of players who have a sober style and play terrific in intelligence, positioning, movement and attract no media coverage for the outstanding work they do is long, very very very long.

at the end of the day, i know the factors that influence the price of someone like Pogba, but we asmadrid fans should know more than anyone that price doesnt dictate skill and quality. To me, you are just biased, and i have been here reading your defend benzema in endless rants with Chad, then turning on him... i know how this argument will go.

i will say this, Pogba is in no way "better" then Kroos or Modric, specially Modric. But, in my opinion, he is a better fit for what we are trying to achieve or the style we play right now.

_________________


Madridista naci.. Vikingo sere y Merengue Moriré
avatar
Mr Nick09
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Dortmund
Posts : 22207
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by sportsczy on Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:36 pm

ok whatever....  hope that didn't take too much time to write because i disagree with 80% of it and i don't have the energy to respond in detail.

Pogba is a superstar because he's capable of taking over a game and forcing the game to his rhythm.  That's the definition.  A frenchman is never going to be a superstar in Italy because he's marketable...  it's always going to be because of his ability and game.

And Italy has the best midfield play in the world other than Spain. The league lacks strikers other than Higuain and lose their superstars other than Italian nationals. That's their issue. Very good league still though.


Last edited by sportsczy on Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
avatar
sportsczy
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 14062
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:40 pm

I don't get these guys rejecting the idea of Pogba coming. I thought we all agreed we had balance problems last season and they needed to be resolved. We all seem to agree we needed 3 players; a CF, LB and a DM to backup / challenge the incumbents. Supposedly the club is still trying to do just that.

However that just solves the problem of lack of options at those positions and doesn't do anything about the balance problem.

It sounds to me the resistence is coming because it means replacing one of our existing starters. How else do you think this team can be improved if it isn't a change to at least one of the starters?

I'm certain Zidane would hope for Kroos (and probably Isco for that matter) will stay, but there will be questions of numbers and would he accept a backup or rotational role.

Modric is getting close to the age, were age might start limiting his performances and therefore some rotation with Modric may well be a good idea. Isco, if he stays could be the backup to Pogba. That then allows the club to sell Kovacic to Juve and let James go to the highest bidder.
avatar
futbol_bill
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 2312
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:45 pm

Ok Sports and Nick. You guys debating about whether or not the player is a superstar or not, but meanwhile agreeing, he is a fit to our midfield?

Why not drop the gloves, and just agree on the logic of the fit (or not) and forget about the labels?
avatar
futbol_bill
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 2312
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:45 pm

The difference between Pogba yesterday and Modric today rofl
avatar
halamadrid2
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 17403
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by sportsczy on Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:47 pm

Modric is one of the best midfielders in the world and likely the best at his position... I don't think anyone is comparing a 23 year old Pogba who hasn't reached his prime to a 30 year old Modric who is in his late prime.

This 23 year old Pogba craps all over the 23 year old version of Modric btw.

_________________
avatar
sportsczy
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 14062
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Valkyrja on Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:48 pm

Keep in mind that Turkey is much better than Romania. They actually have a few players that play at a very high level.

But Pogba is faster than Modric, and stronger, and a better scorer, header and has a nicer haircut. He also has dem tricks Proud

On a serious note, I think that Pogba would be massive in a 442 wide role ala Atletico. I guess that's his best position, a LM in a 442

_________________


Minuto Noventa y Ramos
avatar
Valkyrja
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 9451
Join date : 2011-11-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:50 pm

I have said it before, Pogba is a fit, because we need a box to box. Having two players like Modric and Kroos, playing either side of our DM doesnt bring too much variation. We need verticality.


_________________


Madridista naci.. Vikingo sere y Merengue Moriré
avatar
Mr Nick09
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Dortmund
Posts : 22207
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by sportsczy on Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:52 pm

So first it was comparing Pogba to Busquets and now to Modric...  dude, what is wrong with you.  Nobody has ever said or will say that Pogba is better than either of them.  He's not looking to replace either of them for that matter.  He's replacing Kroos ffs.

_________________
avatar
sportsczy
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 14062
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Adit on Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:11 pm

The problem is Pogba is not a dominant midfielder. He is a game changer, a moment of brilliance or a stunning move which results in goal. He is not only inconsistency, but inconsistent within single game itself. Yet to see him dominate a full game, an important one.

He isn't even better than Kroos. The concept of play making is executed brilliantly by Kroos while Pogba trying to play make looks cringe worthy. Kroos is a much superior passer, it's not even close. He also has understanding of space and team concept, he is by far best in recycling possession.

Pogba tries too much final pass, his efficiency is a big question mark. Also he is a dribble first player, look at him getting dispossessed easily, a simple pass would have been a much better option. Pogba is still raw. In Madrid I don't think people will have enough patience to see him develop.

_________________
#WEAREALLTAXFRAUDS
avatar
Adit
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Tottenham HotSpurs
Posts : 8926
Join date : 2011-06-06

http://www.realmadridfootballblog.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:12 pm

Right after Modric, Kroos gives a masterclass performance Laughing
avatar
halamadrid2
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 17403
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Makaveli on Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:39 pm

I think, people's problem with Pogba is the transfer fee tbh, not so much football related. I have no issue with him coming here, I like him as a player.
We should keep Kroos, Modric and sell James.

Makaveli
Prospect
Prospect

Posts : 3
Join date : 2016-06-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:40 pm

Pretty much. We saw three games so far in the euros from all 3 players discussed above. Modric and kroos had masterclasses. Pogba was subpar, and i certainly did not see any domination of romania.

_________________


Madridista naci.. Vikingo sere y Merengue Moriré
avatar
Mr Nick09
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Dortmund
Posts : 22207
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by FennecFox7 on Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:38 am

It's not just about the performances. It's the player profile. All of a sudden Kroos is "much better" then pogba Laughing yeah, no. Not in a million years

_________________

FennecFox7
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 5995
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 21

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by sportsczy on Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

@FennecFox7 wrote:It's not just about the performances. It's the player profile. All of a sudden Kroos is "much better" then pogba  Laughing yeah, no. Not in a million years

It's unbelievable Fennec...  It's like saying Djorkaef was as good as Zidane because he had better games in some stretches, when Zidane was in a class above regardless of anything Djorkaef ever did (and I loved Djorkaef). Here's a tournament specific example: the best mid until the final in WC 98 for France was Emmanuel Petit because he was given acres of space with teams focusing on Zidane. Did that make Petit a better player? In WC 2006, they couldn't just focus on Zidane because Vieira and Makalele were WC players in their own right... so Zizou shined. In Euro 2000, it didn't matter because Zidane was at the peak of his art and you couldn't do anything about it.

People forget that teams plan and focus on stopping Pogba, which then opens up the game for the other players.  Nobody focuses on stopping Kroos.  With Madrid, they focus on Modric in the midfield.  With Germany, they focus on Ozil....  It allowed Kroos to shine just like Payet got room for France.  In no universe does it mean that Kroos is better than Ozil or Payet is better than Pogba.  But kudos to both for taking advantage.

_________________
avatar
sportsczy
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 14062
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Eneide on Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:31 am

Pogba profile might be what we(Madrid/Zidane) needs in our midfield but the talk of him being miles ahead of Kroos is just plain ridiculous. I do not know how you guys reach that conclusion. Let's take for example, the single games they have all played at the Euro...Pogba was the contrary of what is being reported here. I did not see great defence, great passing, great dribbling abilities(He tried 5 dribbles and succeeded only once according to WhoScored.com)...even his tracking back is lazy, he pretty much jogs. I surely did not see that creativity.
I am not saying that these games are somewhat telling of what Pogba is all about but even watching the Juve games in Champions league(I don't  watch much of Serie A games since SuperSport does not broadcast them  anymore) I still do not get all these great abilities people are talking about.

I think the press(the french one exactly) has overrated this guy and it is a disservice. The likes of Modric did not even cost 100mil...smh people genuinely think that Pogba will cost 120mil.

Eneide
Prospect
Prospect

Posts : 25
Join date : 2015-10-24

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by sportsczy on Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:38 am

He had 2-3 guys pressuring him and leaving Matuidi alone on the other side...  that's why a lot of pundits in France are so down on Matuidi right now.  He's looking to score goals instead of playing midfield and helping Evra on defense.  Teams are simply shifting their midfield to cover Pogba and still keep someone on Kante (or Lass before).  Until Matuidi proves he can technically move the ball and handle the midfield duties, they'll keep doing it.

Thankfully, Payet saw that Matuidi wasn't doing his job and he dropped back low on his side to get the ball and had acres of space.  If you watch the game...  you see that Payet started 90% of his dangerous plays by dropping where Matuidi should have been and taking the ball.  A lot of open space as the other side was flooded to contain Griezmann/Pogba.

Tactically, France play very very differently than Juve and Pogba is playing a completely different role. With Juve, he's the B2B from the left side and he's asked to become the 3rd forward in a 352 or 442. He roams. With France, he's on the right playing a defensive B2B role where he's asked to play conservatively and only jump into the attack on the right side since Matuidi handles the left. Deschamps limits him way too much. The issue he has is that Matuidi can only play as a left side B2B... he can't play anything else. The only way to accommodate Pogba more is to play Kante as the right side B2B. It was considered. But when Lass went down due to injury, that went out the window because Kante became the holding mid.

That's why I look more at Pogba's Juve performances because that's the role he would play at Madrid... he won't play the role he's playing with NT. With Modric on the other side, teams can't cheat on him either.... he'll get room to operate.

_________________
avatar
sportsczy
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 14062
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by titosantill on Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:22 pm

@Eneide wrote: The likes of Modric did not even cost 100mil...smh people genuinely think that Pogba will cost 120mil.


the price of a player is largely dependent on the selling team. i don't think there is a footballer worth hundred million, not even messi- not because of lack of talent, but age, he's 28, he'll be 29 in a couple days time. the tag of a player is dependent on the selling club who take into account things like player's age, number of years left on the contract, marketing worth of the player- things like image rights, commercials, brands associated with etc, how many clubs have eyes on the player, and how valuable said player is to the club

modric was 26/27 when we signed him, hence the lower price, and whilst he was valuable to spurs, they had a younger player in bale who they could have said "we'll use this money to build around him". imo bale isn't an overall better footballer than modric, but his age, commercial value, value to the club and all those other things saw spurs increase the price tag

its the business of football, i have come to terms with it...the scary thing is if u're unfortunate to spend such a huge price on a player and the player plays like a 2 million euro signing e.g. james. another reason the tag is so high is cos of rumors that barcelona are interested in him also....when real and barca, or two/more big clubs with money are interested in your player, yes, the price is bound to go to astronomical lengths....it has little to do with one player being better or worse than another. we are not going to these clubs saying we want to pay 100 mill, the buying club sets the price
avatar
titosantill
First Team
First Team

Posts : 2593
Join date : 2013-09-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by sportsczy on Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:18 pm

It's not that tito...  it's supply and demand.  There are very very few players of the skillset of Bale or Pogba out there, especially that young.  CMs.... there are a lot more.  

Strikers typically cost the most followed by midfielders who have a flair for the attack.  The further a player operates from the scoring zone, the less expensive they are because there are more players that can do the job in those zones.

It's neither the seller nor the buyer solely setting the price.  It's market economics.  The seller looks to get the maximum price a buyer is willing to pay.  Madrid drove the market to a large extent by overpaying for Bale and James... then the rest of the elite clubs followed suit because they wanted to compete for those players too.  So Man U and Barca started paying massive fees.

Also, clubs spend as much as they can. So EPL teams, Madrid, Barca, etc. are obviously bringing in a ton more money to afford these fees. Since they are competing with each other for the same players, they have to outbid the others.

_________________
avatar
sportsczy
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 14062
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Adit on Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:57 pm

Look the reason more than multiple people saying they struggling to find a consistent great game played by Pogba is not a coincidence. Our standards are much bigger than Juventus. The expectations are higher and inconsistent performance will see him getting benched in no time. Remember his displays in first half of season, all it takes is that to get benched here in Madrid.

He has so far shown nothing to suggest he is better than Kroos really. We are talking about a player Germany built their passing game around. While France lacks a play maker and Pogba can't influence the game. The Pogba transfer problem is simple, it's yet another 'blow up the team' move. Casemiro will get benched and Kroos will be put as a dm and and we will be back to blaming Kroos at dm instead of blaming the coach who put him there.

_________________
#WEAREALLTAXFRAUDS
avatar
Adit
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Tottenham HotSpurs
Posts : 8926
Join date : 2011-06-06

http://www.realmadridfootballblog.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by titosantill on Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:40 am

the selling team pretty much assess the value of their player, and sets a price tag. skill level, age, marketability etc are all factors clubs consider, as i mentioned above; also as important are the number of years left on the present deal. if pogba or bale had only a year left, it would see the price dropped significantly; with the parent club doing all they can to fight for an extension like utd did with de gea....if you want to sign a player, the selling club pretty much dictates the terms, not the other way around. yes they'll bargain and try to reach an agreement, but the selling club has an initial asking price....and its not necessarily about players playing away from scoring zones costing more. if a top player is valuable to a club, has significant nos of year left on his deal, and is wanted by another major club, whether he is an attacker or a defender, the selling club will look to milk the situation.
avatar
titosantill
First Team
First Team

Posts : 2593
Join date : 2013-09-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by sportsczy on Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:34 am

I disagree. It's pure market economics. Supply and demand combined with competitive bidding. Sellers don't dictate the price. They can only ask a price and then the market takes over. They can ask less, but then they'd be stupid. And in any case, if they allowed all the bidding to happen even if they set a low price... It would reach the market eventually. Same concept with setting a price that is too high... If market was lower, the bids would reflect it.

Some clubs don't let the market process play out and end up selling low. Juve isn't one of those clubs. They'll let the elite teams fight it out.

Only trump cards are if the player doesn't want to go to the highest bidder OR if the asset owner wants to gamble for the market to move in the future (as long as player consents).

_________________
avatar
sportsczy
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Marseille
Posts : 14062
Join date : 2011-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Next season's midfield

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 6 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum