A swinger to hold the BBC

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by futbol_bill on Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:43 pm

I don't think Nick is saying replace or upgrade Lucas. I repeat Jese is not on this team next season. We have 3 forward positions, regardless of whether you call them striker, SS, winger or AM, and only have 2 backups, morata and Lucas. Simply put, we need a third regardless of what you want to call it. Ignoring the term wing, I believe Nick's point is we need an experienced Talent who will fight to be a starter, not some under developed home grown cantera. It's time you guys realized, as the club nows seems to have, that you can't make the jump from 3rd level futbol to a top 1st division team. Sitting on bench stuns your growth.

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by Valkyrja on Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:21 pm

Why is everyone so sure that Jese will leave this summer ?

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:39 pm

Bill, you need to become less trusting. Transfer rumors are just that, rumors until they become official.

You can't base all your analysis on assumptions that may or may not become true. As things stand, we absolutely have no clue what's gonna happen. Real Madrid has been dead silent so far in this transfer window.

Sure you heard somewhere that Jesé is to be loaned out. That could very well happen, but wait at least until it becomes official before you start toying with the starting XI and bench. Remember you thought De Gea was coming?

And trust me, when our board begins to move for players we'll hear about it. Until then, we can say that "Jesé could go", but never "Jesé will go".

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:54 pm

@tito, its not true that CR is always fit, and neither is Bale. We have been in stretches in the past 3 seasons where those guys were out and we had to do without them.

In terms of personel right now, we have BBC + Morata, jese and vasquez.

Its already better than last season as we dis not have Morata and assuming we keep him, im arguing for another quality winger to be put in Jese's position. Maybe not a star but a confirmed pro that can have a solid impact in big games. Im not so sure why everyone is trying to protect Lucas here he is just a soldier that is around to provide relief. He is not some kind of special talent we need to nurture and protect.

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by futbol_bill on Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:02 am

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:Bill, you need to become less trusting. Transfer rumors are just that, rumors until they become official.

You can't base all your analysis on assumptions that may or may not become true. As things stand, we absolutely have no clue what's gonna happen. Real Madrid has been dead silent so far in this transfer window.

Sure you heard somewhere that Jesé is to be loaned out. That could very well happen, but wait at least until it becomes official before you start toying with the starting XI and bench. Remember you thought De Gea was coming?

And trust me, when our board begins to move for players we'll hear about it. Until then, we can say that "Jesé could go", but never "Jesé will go".


DoC, yeah, you told me same thing when I made some bold predictions early that ended up (for the most part) correct. I can say for a fact that the club is in negotiations re loan deal for Jese and that Jese has been spoken to about why this will be a move for his benefit.



You may or may not know that I am a socio! Some times I am privy to some inside information.

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by titosantill on Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:14 am

cr being always fit is a bit of an exaggeration on my part. but what i mean is, anyone who is a back up to him will most likely get as little playing time as possible. bale is another story, i expect him to get his usual dose of injuries, and benzema as well, late in the season. i don't mind another winger, but if we do, then it will require proper rotation from zidane, and not just the regular front three playing everytime. and i suspect zidane wants them playing at all times unless they're injured....which is why i think unless morata really performs, he could possibly end up sold or on loan again, when the season ends

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by titosantill on Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:16 am

and some of those players you suggest aren't realistic, hulk? ribery? haven't followed wolfsburg so can't say much about draxler, but i hope you're not using his little rendezvous with danilo as your yardstick of measurement....he strikes me as a guy who would need to start than an energizer bunny off the bench i think

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:12 am

I just threw RIbery or Hulk in there to take a piss, the two that i am looking at and that i would absolutely love to have are Perisic and Ben Arfa. Super 1v1 players and rather efficient. Late 20s, proven professionals without being stars (although Ben Arfa is coming from super far)

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by Valkyrja on Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:50 am

Ben Arfa a proven professional ?

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by shadexticos on Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:10 am

Ben Arfa and Perisic are realistic, most especially Ben Arfa, he is a player with a lot of technical quality who can turn in an ocassional man-of-the-match performance even with the big boys on the field
Playing for Madrid would be more than a dream to such a player and I don't expect him to hold dreams of winning the balon d'or.
Such players will not be to sad at not being starters, but no player will be comfortable with not starting at all..

So I think as we ponder and suggest, the qualities to look out for are:
1 - enough quality to turn in an ocassional man-of-the-match performance
2 - not hoping to bench either of the BBC
3 - does not have Balon D'or dreams...
4 - in their late 20s

A first XI material will never be happy on the bench! Never!
And if they are not happy, you don't expect them to give you their best
And if they aren't given their best, then what's the point of having them at all.

We are better off with an averagely talented but happy lucas than a presumably 'world class' james.
I'd even sign a Quaresma, a nani, a perotti.
Players who will never dream of getting a phone call from madrid and feel they are getting one last chance to make a difference.

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by LeBéninois on Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:19 pm

Ben Arfa not come to RM. The pressure is way too much for him.

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by FennecFox7 on Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:38 pm

@shadexticos wrote:We don't need world class players on the bench
Lucas, Asensio, maybe a ben arfa and any other player who does not believe he will win balon d'or in 2 - 3 years time or ever.
We have an untouchable, completely untouchable front 3. No need for world class players on the bench.


This is my point nick. In what way will these players that you listed be happy with riding the bench Laughing

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by futbol_bill on Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:38 pm

Have you guys looked how many games bbc missed last season? The number is substantial.

In today's game with three competitions and all the international games, no player can play them all. The smartest coaches use their entire squads through rotations, giving starters regular relief and making subs to those than can't go at 100%.

Zidane has shown in just half a season that he is much more adept at this man management than Ancelotti or even Mourinho.

So bottom line is we are headed towards only 2 forward backups; Morata and Lucas. We need a third. It has basically been stated by club that it doesn't do the organization nor the player any good to have a young talent sit on the bench. We need someone who can make an impact when they get their opportunites. You may not agree with the names Nick suggested, but don't try to tell us it should be this cantera or another, or why this guy or the next guy won't come, suggest someone else!

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by shadexticos on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:32 am

We have to stop thinking like 'real madrid fans' and start being 'REAListic'
Even lucas Vasquez would get fed up of being a bench player when other teams start offering him the opportunity of first team football and a much bigger pay pack.

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:48 am

Bench players are to be recycled every now and then, that's how it works.

Lucas Vasquez leaving at some point is a given, he is not good enough to break out as a starter. Is it a big loss? no. Guys like Nacho will leave at some point as well, they are easily replaceable

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by Valkyrja on Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:09 pm

it's easy to replace the likes of lucas and nacho with mercenaries, of course

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:34 pm

I would throw Payet in there... but he doesn't want to sit on the bench anywhere.

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by shadexticos on Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:57 pm

Zidane praised payet today/yday and said he would improve any team.
I believe he subtly made a comparison between him and payet; he talked about the fact that payet is 29 and enjoying his best career form, a trajectory similar to Zidane.

I can see us bidding for Payet but it wud not be a smart move on his part to ignore other offers who will offer him first team football and come to a team with a set first XI.

Talking about Payet, for those who have watched him enough (asides euros) to come to a conclusion about him, can he adapt to a cm position, most importantly, does he track back willingly or sluggishly?

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:04 pm

No to your first question, slugglishly to your second. I dont think with his current form and general ego, it will sit well with him to come in Madrid knowing he wont be first choice. But at the same time, how many big teams will make a leap to sign him? given his age and future cost (Aston Villa will want a mini fortune)

He would strenghten a lot of teams though

edit: as i am reading this again, i just remember that Liverpool is bidding close to 40 mil on Sadio Mane. Of course Payet will go to a bigger club lol

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by shadexticos on Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:30 pm

I can't stand any midfielder who can't mark aggressively but marking is not a skill, its a decision.
Its better to have players who believe they should mark rather than players who believe they have no business marking and have to be instructed to do so.

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by Zees on Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:23 am

I definitely agree, as much as i love Lucas there is no denying that he is limited in terms of what he is capable of on the pitch. I feel that fans are putting a lot of emphasis on hard work because of the way this year went but things will not alway be as fortunate for us as last season post Rafa exit

I think Lucas is an ideal player to put on if we're playing good/decent and want a pair of new legs, someone that'll cover a lot of space on both ends and put up a decent offensive and defensive shift. However if we're struggling and need a goal does Lucas have enough quality to impact the game, specially against tougher teams? actually let me rephrase that, is he an ideal player to put in in those kinds of circumstances? i think not, there are players much better suited that we can get.

Someone that's more pacy, can get past his man, has a lot of flair and is unpredictable. Essentially do what Coman did for Bayern vs Juve in the semi final, someone to can bring life to the offence in case it becomes dull.

I think Brahimi would be a great choice although he'd be very expensive, Konoplayanka is another alternative that's already in La Liga. He was on fire at the start the season, i remember him completely destroying us in the away tie but i've heard he has a bad work ethic unfortunately and he was a bit inconsistent although it was his first season.

Someone i personally really like is Iuri Medeiros although he's more unproven and would cost a fortune, Nolito might be worth a mention as well although i don't personally see it.

Haven't seen too much of Ben Arfa other than highlights since he went back to France but i've heard good things. Don't see Payet, Ribery or Hulk happening and wouldn't mind Perisic from what i've seen at the euro's.

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:17 am

Lucas has already shown he can come off te bench to impact a game. He did it against Roma and many more. This feels more like a fix what is not broken kind of move.

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:29 pm

Lucas isn't going anwhere and will be one of the reserves on team. It's a third in addition to Morata and Lucas, we are discussing.

- who changed the op title?

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by vanDEEZ on Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:59 pm

Are we so sure Jese will go out on loan? I have seen no reports of this and based on his behavior in the past (refusing to go on loan or buy-back) I would find it odd if he wasn't in the team next season

Personally, I think our attacking line has good chemistry, variety and depth, so I wouldn't make any changes if it was up to me.

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by titosantill on Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:38 pm

i don't know about variety, i think you've reached that conclusion because we won the ucl. the chemistry could be better imo.

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Re: A swinger to hold the BBC

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:44 pm

chemistry is fine, what i take issue with is depth and variety.

We have somehow addressed depth by signing Morata and even then there are question marks.

depth on the other hand is not all that. i think there is a difference between say Bayern for example, when ribery-robben are out and they still have douglas costa-coman available, and us having to play Jese or Vasquez. I see a gap, they are functional, they can do well, but i see a gap in quality.

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