SF: France Vs Germany

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by sportsczy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:57 pm

Actually to me...  midfield and forwards were never a concern.  We're deep and talented there.  With all the injuries, the CBs are the main concern.  Gomez being out helps a lot because Rami and Kos are much better at dealing with players in front of them.  Set pieces are also an issue, but without Hummels, Gomez and Khedira, we should be able to hande that ok too. But I still worry.  

Sagna and Evra were a concern too coming in but they've been ok.

In games like this, it comes down to who takes their chances and who doesn't.  Not much will separate the teams.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by Sri on Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:17 pm

@Adit wrote:Giroud is on unreal form at the moment. He gave best individual performance of the Euros against Iceland. Everything he touched turned gold.

Giroud,Payet and Griezman are key to France.


G-rod is really good against smaller teams - no disrespect to Iceland, but they aren't on the same keel as France.
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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by VivaStPauli on Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:17 pm

Yeah Hummels being gone will hurt when we take corners, and Gomez would've been gold against your midget defense. But it's not like we've relied on high balls and aerial play a lot, in the past.

Sadly though, we've looked best with Klose or Gomez, so we will have far less chances. Doesn't mean we can't beat France, but if it wasn't equal chances before, it sure is now.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by McLewis on Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:20 pm

I think Germany will find a way through this one. They're known for that after all.

Is there another #9 coming up in the Germany ranks that can eventually replace Gomez at comps like this?

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by VivaStPauli on Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:36 pm

Tough to say.

We've got a few prospects, like Leipzigs Selke, or maybe someone like Lasogga will turn out to be a late bloomer. Other than that we're really not producing much strikers these days, especially since most players with a knack for goal are eventually converted to inverted wingers, false bench players, or some other pseudo-modern twattery.

Maybe Timo Werner or Daniel Ginczek of Stuttgart, or the cut-from-the-squad Julian Brandt could develop along those lines.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by sportsczy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:14 pm

@Sri wrote:
@Adit wrote:Giroud is on unreal form at the moment. He gave best individual performance of the Euros against Iceland. Everything he touched turned gold.

Giroud,Payet and Griezman are key to France.


G-rod is really good against smaller teams - no disrespect to Iceland, but they aren't on the same keel as France.

That's false. For NT, he's scored in our big games while Benzema has been inconsistent. Namely, he scored against Spain in WC qualifying, the Swiss in the WC, etc. Friendlies for the past 2 years mean very little and Benzema has blocked him for some time. But you can't just ignore his overall effectiveness regardless... since the injuries and suspension to Benz, Giroud has scored in 9 out of the last 13 NT games he's played with 11 goals total in that span.

I watch a lot of Arsenal. The issues he has there are that 1) the crossing is downright abysmal so his air game isn't as effective and 2) the team overall is very inconsistent in how it plays leading him him being more inconsistent than usual.

He's not world class. But Giroud is damn good. Even in his worst year this season... He still scored 24 goals and dished 6 assists for Arsenal.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by sportsczy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:16 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:Yeah Hummels being gone will hurt when we take corners, and Gomez would've been gold against your midget defense. But it's not like we've relied on high balls and aerial play a lot, in the past.

Sadly though, we've looked best with Klose or Gomez, so we will have far less chances. Doesn't mean we can't beat France, but if it wasn't equal chances before, it sure is now.

We're without Varane, Benzema, Lass, Zouma, Sakho, Laporte and Mathieu... so I'm not going to cry a river about Germany missing a couple of players too.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by McLewis on Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:18 pm

Interesting. Germany are such a strong side that I don't really even see the lack of a traditional up and coming #9 as a weakness so I was mostly just curious. If anything, that just adds another option tactically that could benefit them in situations like this. Given that Muller is a once-in-a-generation player for them, It's probably his successor we should be looking for and not necessarily Gomez's I suppose hmm

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by sportsczy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:23 pm

McLewis... they sucked in the WC and this Euro without a 9.  They played well once Klose came on as the 9 in the WC early on and Gomez took over for Gotze in this Euro.  They look toothless with the false 9 and can't score mostly.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by VivaStPauli on Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:31 pm

@sportsczy wrote:McLewis... they sucked in the WC and this Euro without a 9.  They played well once Klose came on as the 9 in the WC early on and Gomez took over for Gotze in this Euro.  They look toothless with the false 9 and can't score mostly.


Though to be fair to the idea of the false 9, in both instances, at the WC and the Euros this year, we were also playing without fullbacks, so Klose came on in the same match Lahm switched back to RB, and Gomez came on in these Euros when Kimmich was introduced.
So me, personally, I'm still not sure whether having fullbacks didn't actually have the greater effect on our offense than Gomez coming on.

I love me some Gomez, and prefer a 9 over the false one, but it might actually end up being less of an issue than it looked to be.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by McLewis on Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:35 pm

@sportsczy wrote:McLewis... they sucked in the WC and this Euro without a 9.  They played well once Klose came on as the 9 in the WC early on and Gomez took over for Gotze in this Euro.  They look toothless with the false 9 and can't score mostly.


True enough, Sports. A traditional 9 gives any team more shape and it's certainly benefited Germany in recent games. It's also down to the tactics employed behind that player though. I obviously don't intend to compare Roma to Germany, but we actually looked terrible with a real 9 up front (Dzeko) yet stick a false 9 in there and we started tearing up sides. That's down to the work done behind that player using the tactics employed by the coach who truly understands how and when to use a false 9 to great effect. Perhaps this is something Loew doesn't quite grasp.

I think his intention to play a false 9 is sensible overall, but his execution of it tactically against sides set up to defend well against those types of players is rather poor and it's shown. Doesn't necessarily mean the lack of an upcoming #9 is means for alarm to me though. Not sure how the Germans see it, but if they are converting more of their goalscorers into the mold of top players like Reus, Goetze and Mueller, not such a bad thing. Never hurts to have a traditional target man though as it gives options. That's what I was getting at.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by sportsczy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:40 pm

I think it has a lot to do with the other players on the forward line... Mueller needs a 9 to help open space for him. With a false 9, he tends to drift because they're running into the same areas. Ozil also likes the gap between the CBs and the midfielders that a 9 affords him because the CBs have to pay attention to the diagonal and back shoulder runs. With a false 9, the CBs can play more aggressively because they don't have to worry much about players making runs behind them.

That said, i don't trust Rami much so he may make Germany look good.

But generally speaking, Germany are far less dangerous on the attack without a proper CF.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by rwo power on Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:42 pm

Maybe Löw could consider trying out Lars Stindl after the Euro? hmm
He's pretty versatile, too and played as CF, SS, AM, CM and RW recently.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by titosantill on Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:03 pm

if you're playing ozil in attacking midfield, the last thing you need is a false 9. whether muller likes it or not, he needs to make better runs in and around the area. they have too many midfielders for him to get sucked into playing a false 9 role and dropping deep. stay up top and play off ozil. you can trust ozil to make some good passes. btw i'm disappointed regarding his penalty comment. its a very cowardly comment by a pro-athlete. we'd be in an uproar if that was say messi, cristiano et al.

i understand he said if they need him to, he will, but that puts unnecessary pressure on himself, the coaching staff, and most importantly, his teammates. people miss penalties, its extremely tough especially emotionally, but it shouldn't define you.

ramos missed in ucl semis, shook it off and scored in the euro, he missed at the world cup, shook it off scored in the ucl final shootout, he missed again this euros, i bet he'll shake it off and take another one. i don't even like ramos, i still say he's a shabby defender, but he knows how to suppress the nerves...i expect such from muller. even ozil has a history of sucking at PKs but still steps up, if everyone who missed says "i'm not taking anymore" where does that leave the team's mental state? cowardly comment
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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by VivaStPauli on Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:38 pm

I wouldn't take what Müller said as seriously and literally as you did. From the context, I assume he mostly meant he'll not take the next few penalties, if avoidable. I don't think he necessarily isn't going to take one again.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by titosantill on Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:00 pm

you're a fan, so you're being optimistic about it. I can understand that. muller is one of the senior players in the squad; not in terms of age, but experience. you don't need one of your top players admitting to the fear of a shootout. a penalty is technical, but a shootout for a player is more mental than any other thing. you've got neuer as your goalie, practice PKs with him after every session (i know practice is different from the real thing), and understand that missing is part of life,

baggio missed, he came back and took another in the next tournament. maradona missed, he came back and took another in the semis. ramos, cristiano, even ozil. the last thing you need is your senior players admitting defeat. cos of a few fluffed shots. i bet if zaza could he'll step up and take another one in the exact same fashion (i'll actually pay good money to see another zaza pk)
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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by sportsczy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:30 pm

Interestingly, Deschamps was asked if he practiced PKs with his players... he said no because shooting PKs after 120 mins under pressure has nothing to do with practicing them.  He said that you go with the guys who shoot them at the club level because they know the pressure.

So for France, that would be:
-  Griezmann
-  Payet
-  Pogba

The other two are going to suck.  Giroud is terrible at them.   The CBs too.  Maybe Evra.  I know Gignac took them at Marseille...  and he would likely be in if the game went that long.  Martial took them at Monaco and saw him take a couple of Man U.

Etc.

Bottom line is that I don't think you can practice PKs on the NT level.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by VivaStPauli on Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:34 pm

I'm not trying to talk the idea of Müller not taking PKs up, I just think it was an off-hand comment and he'll probably be back to taking PKs soon.

I might be wrong, of course. But it's not something that deeply worries me. What worries me is the underlying fact that half the squad now sucks at penalties.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by LeBéninois on Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:47 pm

The 2 best teams of the tournament. Imo France has more chance to win than 2 years ago (being at home might help too) but at the end of the day it's going to be close.
I'm eager to see is France is going to play the same line-up as against Iceland or revert to 4-3-3 with Kanté in and Sissoko out. Griez is better behind the n9 so Kanté might sit out for this one.


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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by VivaStPauli on Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:06 pm

France was the team I feared most in 2014, and they haven't gotten any worse since then.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by sportsczy on Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:10 pm

Defensively, we have Rami over Varane (Laughing).  On the attack, we have Giroud over Benzema (Giroud has done well but he's no Benzema). Payet over Valbuena is a very marked improvement.  Both Pogba and Griezmann have gotten significantly better too.  But Evra and Sagna have aged while Matuidi isn't better imo.

I think we're better overall on the attack but also worse on defense...  we'll see.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by LeBéninois on Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:17 pm

Germany is going to be defensively weaker too.

Are you expecting 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 with Kanté ?

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by rwo power on Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:42 pm

@VivaStPauli wrote:What worries me is the underlying fact that half the squad now sucks at penalties.
In the worst case there is always Manuel Neuer. I bet he'd bury his penalty again as he did before for Bayern.

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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by breva on Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:58 am

The real final was Italy-Germany. France doesn't stand a chance.
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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by Vlad the Impaler on Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:41 am

@VivaStPauli wrote:What worries me is the underlying fact that half the squad now sucks at penalties.

I'd say Germany has an advantage over France because they could practice and warm up against Italy. ("penaltically speaking")

@breva wrote:The real final was Italy-Germany.  France doesn't stand a chance.


The real final was Italy - Germany, but France has a chance. Germany comes after very intensive effort, but France only had to play against Ireland and Iceland ( Laughing ). Somehow like Italy came after the game against Spain.
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Re: SF: France Vs Germany

Post by rwo power on Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:14 am

Fortunately, Germany have 1 day longer to rest than France, so maybe this evens out the 120 minutes a little.

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