Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

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Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by sportsczy on Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:10 pm

Or Zidane figures out a way to get everyone some playing time like we do with our CBs. The real loser is Isco who may never ever play if he stays.

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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:57 pm

What makes you think that?
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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by futbol_bill on Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:02 pm

I am really wondering about Isco as well! Has he peaked in terms of development? When James came in, I basically said why, as Isco offered everything he could offer. And although that is basically true, you can see when comparing Pogba to Isco, that won't be the case this time around.

He says he is happy at Madrid and Zidane says he is staying and seems to have confidence in him (at least for now).

However despite his obvious talent, there are so many missing elements to his game; poor read of game, dribble first mentality, over dribbling, holds onto ball too long, poor passing, questionable defense. I realize his natural position isn't used at Madrid, but these liabilities he has, are not improving and is the main reason, he didn't make it to this "changeover" seleccion, when just a year ago he was one of the main players to lead that transition.

I really question his intelligence when he says he is happy at Madrid. It implies he is happy with his game and being a bench player.
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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by The Galactico 10 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:04 pm

Mr Nick, I am not basing my point on the stats alone but after everything is said and done, stats are the only things that can paint a picture to show the effectiveness and efficiency of a player everything else is subjective. Kroos might not be attacking like Pogba but he is a more effective midfielder than Pogba. The way you are discounting Kroos' passing side of the game gives the impression that you are a Pogba fan which is not bad but possession and retention of it during a game is a very vital game management tool and if you have players who are not great passers this becomes difficult. My suggestion I know many do not want to hear it would be for us to sell Modric if we have no choice than Kroos. Kroos is younger and a superior passer , average defensivley, he takes our set pieces and most of his assists are from set pieces again another aspect of the game Pogba does not have. I know you have highlighted that we should not bank much on stats but this I will say, Kroos had 12 assists in all competitions and Pogba had 15 what does this say to you about the 2 when on their affectiveness and efficiency on their offensive game? Pogba is a great talent but trading him for Kroos is utterly insane. He is not worth the amount of money Juve want for him , why should we pay that much for someone who is not exceptionally better than the players we already have? I would be happy if we don't get Pogba if it means keeping Kroos.

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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by Adit on Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:07 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:But you are talking about two different needs then.

You dont want Pogba to come because you are afraid he will push Kroos out of rotation but it's ok to sign Kante because he wont and he can play DM so too bad for casemiro right?

At the end of the day, fans here defend who they like the most, Kroos fans are no exception. This whole argument is just about saving the soldier Kroos, no love for Casemiro, Kante can come in and take his place no problem, he has no fans here to defend him.


Really?

Only person going to bench when Pogba comes is Casemiro, everyone knows that.

Regardless of the performance Pogba will be offered a starting role just because of his world record price tag. Which is the only thing I fear if he comes.

What about his turn overs? He tries useless dribbles in midfield and gets dispossessed at an alarming frequency. In a team that can defend counters and win the ball back quickly that won't be a problem but in our set up which is basically wait and win it by gk that is going to be a huge problem.

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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:18 pm

In our set up that is sit deep to defend and then counter when you have the ball, you should be happy we are trying to sign him them, he THRIVES on long runs and counters.

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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by Adit on Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:27 pm

I'm not sure that is our system. We were basically individual brilliance+ set piece team last year. Not exactly possession or counter attacking.

I'm not sure why he is valued at an world record fee really, it's not about the fee, I'll be very happy to pay 200 million for Neymar because he is really terrific and has showed things irrespective of set up and in multiple tournaments and multiple teams. I'm struggling to find a great game by Pogba against a worthy opponent. He shows flashes of brilliance but that won't cut it at Madrid.

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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:35 pm

@The Galactico 10 wrote:Mr Nick, I am not basing my point on the stats alone but after everything is said and done, stats are the only things that can paint a picture to show the effectiveness and efficiency of a player everything else is subjective. Kroos might not be attacking like Pogba but he is a more effective midfielder than Pogba. The way you are discounting Kroos' passing side of the game gives the impression that you are a Pogba fan which is not bad but possession and retention of it during a game is a very vital game management tool and if you have players who are not great passers this becomes difficult. My suggestion I know many do not want to hear it would be for us to sell Modric if we have no choice than Kroos. Kroos is younger and a superior passer , average defensivley, he takes our set pieces and most of his assists are from set pieces again another aspect of the game Pogba does not have. I know you have highlighted that we should not bank much on stats but this I will say, Kroos had 12 assists in all competitions and Pogba had 15 what does this say to you about the 2 when on their affectiveness and efficiency on their offensive game? Pogba is a great talent but trading him for Kroos is utterly insane. He is not worth the amount of money Juve want for him , why should we pay that much for someone who is not exceptionally better than the players we already have? I would be happy if we don't get Pogba if it means keeping Kroos.
More effective doing what? scoring goals? no. Dribbling? no. Creating chances? No. Winning headers? no. This is essentially the type of baseless arguments i can't stand.

you want to compare assists numbers? how about you compare how many where made in open play and how many are on set pieces? Because im pretty sure we have other players that are great at delivering set pieces. ANother round of statistics used poorly.

The truth is that the moment we put Casemiro at DM, to fix our balance issues in midfielder, kroos dropped in relevance by a factor 100. With Modric on one side and Casemiro protecting the back four, we could bring back khedira and he would do the job

And can we stop talking about Money? for the love of god, let's stick to football

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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:48 pm

@Adit wrote:I'm not sure that is our system. We were basically individual brilliance+ set piece team last year. Not exactly possession or counter attacking.

I'm not sure why he is valued at an world record fee really, it's not about the fee, I'll be very happy to pay 200 million for Neymar because he is really terrific and has showed things irrespective of set up and in multiple tournaments and multiple teams. I'm struggling to find a great game by Pogba against a worthy opponent. He shows flashes of brilliance but that won't cut it at Madrid.
I agree with you in the sense that He is not all done as a player, but signing him is also investing into his development. You can't argue against the fact that so far his career and development has been a straight arrow pointing up, and there are signs he will continue to grow.

So i dont think it's a bad idea because 1) his potential, we are investing in a young asset. This is what we do all the time. 2) he is good enough to have sustained impact for us at the moment, as he did for juventus in the past 3 years. That can't even be argued against.

I dont expect him to become a player that dominate a game on the ball the way Modric and Kroos do spreading passes and controlling tempo. What you sign him for is his ability to break lines in midfield and make match winning plays. To me it's essentially going back to what we did two years ago when we had Di Maria-ALonso-Modric. One DM, one game controller, one box to box making runs. Balance will be key of course, but i still consider that the best and most balance midfield we have played in the past 4 years.

What i wont do is shit on Kroos and say that Pogba is much better, he is not. We are talking about footballers at the same levels, doing completely different things that will benefit Madrid in the long run if we handle things intelligently.

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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by The Galactico 10 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:57 pm

Alright Nick what is it that you find superior on Pogba that would make a difference for us? This would really help me understand the reason we should bring in Pogba so much.

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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by titosantill on Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:52 pm

i think what he's saying is, modric and kroos are similar kind of players, in a midfield 3, we need 1 dm, a cm, and a cm who has a bit of creativity to his football. a lot of times our midfield has been very stale over the past two seasons especially when we are not playing on the counter. pogba could fill that void

the only issues i have with the move are; i don't want kroos sold, i think zidane can find a way to get all 3 (kroos, luka and pogba) good playing time. two, i don't want a midfield 3 of kroos luka and pogba starting neither, cos a defensive midfielder who does the dirty job is valuable in our set up. three, i'm not a big fan of the transfer fee numbers i'm hearing regarding pogba.....good player with high potential cos of his age, but i don't think there's a footballer who is worth that much....if we are to make a move, i expect us to negotiate to bring the price down a bit than just paying such a boatload of cash



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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by Valkyrja on Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:15 pm

@titosantill wrote:i think what he's saying is, modric and kroos are similar kind of players, in a midfield 3, we need 1 dm, a cm, and a cm who has a bit of creativity to his football. a lot of times our midfield has been very stale over the past two seasons especially when we are not playing on the counter. pogba could fill that void

the only issues i have with the move are; i don't want kroos sold, i think zidane can find a way to get all 3 (kroos, luka and pogba) good playing time. two, i don't want a midfield 3 of kroos luka and pogba starting neither, cos a defensive midfielder who does the dirty job is valuable in our set up. three, i'm not a big fan of the transfer fee numbers i'm hearing regarding pogba.....good player with high potential cos of his age, but i don't think there's a footballer who is worth that much....if we are to make a move, i expect us to negotiate to bring the price down a bit than just paying such a boatload of cash


impossible to negotiate his price. juve has leverage on us considering that there are many teams willing to buy him, and he according to reports he isn't desperate to leave.

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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by The Galactico 10 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:39 pm

Thank you Titosantill, I hope that is exactly what Nick was alluding to, however I understand that view and surely agree with it. I think rotation can work too, because Modric is 31 going on 30 and I assume he would not mind too much being in rotation getting good minutes and for some games we can play them all, I am hoping Zizou will see it that way. As far as actually getting Pogba , I think he should actually make his mind up about moving and his destination, that way Juve will have no choice but to negotiate, but as it stands as far as he (Pogba) is speaking to and entertaining everybody it complicates squeezing the transfer fee. I am sure we will get a clear picture after the Euros or maybe before.


Last edited by The Galactico 10 on Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by titosantill on Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:40 pm

@Valkyrja yup, i'm afraid that's the situation we are in...even worse is the fact that there possibly could be other suitors, so the cards are in juve's hands right now. but we'll see
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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by titosantill on Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:47 pm

@The Galactico 10 wrote: As far as actually getting Pogba , I think he should actually make his mind up about moving and his destination, that way Juve will have no choice but to negotiate, but as it stands as far as he (Pogba) is speaking to and entertaining everybody it complicates squeezing the transfer fee. I am sure we will get a clear picture after the Euros or maybe before.


he is doing the smart thing. you can't be in a rush to make a move, especially not to madrid. at juve he's winning titles, being their main man, not getting whistled....all that could turn in an instant at madrid. juve have done a lot for him and vice-versa, no reason for him to rub it in. besides, when a bunch of teams in europe have an eye for you, you don't rush to make a hasty decision simply cos its madrid. even if he makes it clear what he wants to do, he is under contract with juventus, they'll sell on their terms, not pogbas....and sadly not ours
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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by phenom on Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:43 pm

What's with this Gabriel Jesus kid Marcia linking us with?

Is he good?
Are the rumours credible?

Is he the next Robinho or the next r9?

Or he will be the next neymar saga with barca being interested too...
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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by Turok_TTZ on Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:15 pm

Unless his name is gabriel barbosa the fm wonderkid, i would not put stock on any brazilian youngster, not even the former whoni just mentioned.. Though it seems ronaldo likes gabriel jesus.
Brazil is no longer what it used to be. Every prospect has higher chance of being robinhos than ronaldos
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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by titosantill on Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:26 pm

ronaldo scored goals by the boatload, even at cruizero. using tricks to market some kid as the next one or as reason we should sign him is ridiculous. if he wants to come to madrid, he needs to play a bit longer as well as prove himself. i'm not into signing youngsters after only 1 or 2 years of professional experience...btw have these tabloids gotten any of their prodigy predictions to us right at all? drenthe, canales, odegaard, robinho too was supposed to be the next pele, gago the next redondo etc madrid isn't the place to unearth diamonds in the rough. develop your talent and work ethic elsewhere, and when u think u're mentally prepared, we can discuss business
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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:34 pm

i have seen his youtube clips :coffee: he looks nothing impressive at all

in style i can compare him to Martial, an inside left forward that will take the wing but also make CF runs, and takes up central position. That being said, he has none of the speed.

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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by phenom on Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:52 pm

No credibility to the rumours then ?

I really hope we don't get the next Robinho but missing out on the next neymar to barca will be embarrassing
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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by sportsczy on Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:57 am

http://www.marca.com/futbol/real-madrid/2016/06/29/5772c17e46163f9d408b461a.html

Zidane apparently insisting on Kante, who has a release clause of 25 million (i think that's in pounds. could be wrong). It's a no brainer to me at that price.

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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:31 am

It's in euros, 25 million euros.


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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:02 pm

For the price and need, it's a no brainer. Kante is a super interesting player to have. He has obvious shortcomings in his game, specially since he cant dictate the play but we have to do with.

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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by futbol_bill on Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:23 pm

Do you feel, this is the second DM that we need, and does that complete the midfield moves or are we still pursuing Pogba?

The article that I referred to weeks ago suggested Zidane wanted them both.

I read today that Juve is insisting on James or Kroos in any deal for Pogba so that sounds like they still are talking.
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Re: Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc

Post by futbol_bill on Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:25 pm

If this Kante rumour holds up, they will be making 2 of the 3 moves (CF and DM) that were necessary to fill holes from last season.

No word on pursue of Rodriquez, meanwhile they may keep Coentrao for that role!
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