10 best of all times

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:08 pm

With CR winning the Euros, he has added a page to his resume that was massively missing. Interestingly, previous generations used to define their success with NT cups, but now it's the opposite where we look at CLs more carefully.

Taking into account Era, height of their peak, consistency across the years, tournament success, who do you think are currently the 10 best players of all times. ORDER DOES NOT MATTER. 10 is a good enough number to include enough legends over the past 70 or so years, but restrictive enough not to go overboard.

So my list

Di Stefano
Pele
Maradona
Cruyff
Beckenbauer
Zidane
Messi
Cristiano Ronaldo
Maldini
ROnaldo

bonus: Xavi

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Post by Harmonica on Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:12 pm

Fakenaldo top 10. rofl

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Post by Kaladin on Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:22 pm

Hmm interesting, i like what you said about NT being the main metric in the past

Honestly not sure, haven't seen most of the players you've listed. But of the ones i've seen, i'd definitely include Xavi, Maldini, Messi CR, Zidane and Ronaldo

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Post by S on Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:39 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:With CR winning the Euros, he has added a page to his resume that was massively missing. Interestingly, previous generations used to define their success with NT cups, but now it's the opposite where we look at CLs more carefully.

Taking into account Era, height of their peak, consistency across the years, tournament success, who do you think are currently the 10 best players of all times. ORDER DOES NOT MATTER. 10 is a good enough number to include enough legends over the past 70 or so years, but restrictive enough not to go overboard.

So my list

Di Stefano
Pele
Maradona
Cruyff
Beckenbauer
Zidane
Messi
Cristiano Ronaldo
Maldini
ROnaldo

bonus: Xavi


No Platini in top 10......
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:51 pm

well it's MY top 10, immense respect for platini, tbh and paused for a moment after thinking it would be a straight forward list. mind you xavi was in my top 10 but then i remembered i left out gronaldo. i mean, there is eusebio left out, charlton, best, ronaldinho, zico etc...

what is your list?

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Post by RealGunner on Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:05 pm

Cristiano Ronaldo
Messi
Cruyff
Ronaldo
Zidane
Maradona
Pele
Beckenbauer
Di Stéfano
Gigi Buffon
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Post by Valkyrja on Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:16 pm

imo there are is a pantheon of players who stand above the others by a fair margin : di stefano, pele, cruyff, maradona, ronaldo, messi. then on a level below i have the likes of cristiano, zidane, ronaldinho, beckenbauer, zico, platini, xavi, garrincha, eusebio, baggio ...

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Post by titosantill on Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:22 pm

i don't know if a best ten can be made if one hasn't seen the players play. i understand the significance of team and individual laurels. but i think the eye test is also important, than just resumes alone. who's to say cruyff should be in a top ten and not puskas? or di stefano and not eusebio, if you haven't actually watched them and experienced their peak.
the game has grown so big, that its too broad to create a top ten over the past 60 or so years. especially when you take into account that even a top ten defenders list ever, is still very broad
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Post by Hapless_Hans on Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:28 pm

If there's no Matthäus, it is a bad list

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Post by rincon on Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:30 pm

Pretty hard to make this list with different positions and stuff. In no order.

Messi
CR
Maradona
Pele
Platini
Buffon
Beckenbauer
Cruyff
Ronaldinho
Maldini

Don't know enough about a few guys like Di Stefano and Eusebio. Was debating about Ronaldo or Ronaldinho, but Ronaldinho's peak was just too high and too unique. Also I feel like I have to include at least 1 GK.
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Post by titosantill on Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:38 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:If there's no Matthäus, it is a bad list


one of the most complete midfielders in the game, on both offense and defense. i think his reputation of being an asshole is why he isn't taken into account (which is foolish) when many of these "lists" are made. considering, i don't think he is popular in germany among ex-german players/managers. when your former teammates disliked your guts it makes the 'popularity contest' associated with these lists a tad difficult. i know klinsmann, voeller, and effenberg absolutely hated him when they played....and there may have been many others who might not have hated him, but just didn't like him....fantastic player regardless
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Post by Cruijf on Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:50 pm

CR is better than Platini/Xavi/Iniesta/Van Basten/the list goes on? He's a great player and one of the best but I just don't think he's top 10.

In no order:

Messi
Cruijff
Pele
Maradona
Di Stefano
Puskas
Zico
Socrates
Van Basten
Xavi

These lists are very hard though, I'm sure there's people I missed. And of course comparing across eras and positions is basically impossible.

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Post by jibers on Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:23 pm

@titosantill wrote:i don't know if a best ten can be made if one hasn't seen the players play. i understand the significance of team and individual laurels. but i think the eye test is also important, than just resumes alone. who's to say cruyff should be in a top ten and not puskas? or di stefano and not eusebio, if you haven't actually watched them and experienced their peak.
the game has grown so big, that its too broad to create a top ten over the past 60 or so years. especially when you take into account that even a top ten defenders list ever, is still very broad


This. That is before considering change in tactics, changes in ball, changes in pitches, changes in scouting opposition, sports science, offside rule, fouling rules, super clubs etc Then when you say best, what do you mean? Best footballer? What does that mean? Do we rate players for what they did? If so how do you rank them relative to the teams they played for? How do you compare outfield players to Gks?

How any list can have R9 and CR ahead of Gerd Muller is beyond me. How R9 is rated so highly against the likes of Gaarincha who a lot of people in Brazil rate ahead of Pele is beyond me.

Even with CBs how would you rate them? Scirea, Vascovic, Gentile etc where not CBs. Greatness now is essentially who has the best media campaign. Pele only had 2 WC medals till FIFA retroactively gave him the 1962 medal. Farce. Peles goal totals almost 300 are friendlies and again Gerd Muller has more goals than him if you include friendlies.

Even over the last decade how would you compare? You see players backing off runners and putting thier hands in the air to not giove fouls is an indication of how soft the game is. The COPA America is now the only tournament were attackers and 'flair' players aren't allowed to do as they please. Too many variables. We can do greatest of each generation but outside of that it becomes a mine field. How would you compare wingers today who are more interior forwards to actual wingers in the past such as Rep and Piet Keizer? Beckenbauer was a liberpo but his position today would translate into a regista and not a CB because of the role he played.

tldr Too difficult to do and not really feasible.


Last edited by jibers on Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:26 pm

I was waiting for Jibers response tbh.

Much more detailed than my personal version of " don't know and don't care ". Laughing
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Post by RealGunner on Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:06 pm

Was waiting for it as well. His customary post in any 'X Vs Y' or 'ranking' thread.
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Post by SuperFloren TheLegend on Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:17 pm

1-Pele. Best player in Brazil's history. 3 world cups. more than 1000 goals.
2-Maradona. 1 world cup. Best player in Argentina's history. Leader of mediocre teams which he turned into champions.
3-CR7. Best player in Europe's history. 4 ballon dors in his pocket. four golden boots. 3 european cups, Top Scorer in Real Madrid history, Champions League History,Eurocup hisotry Portugal history, champion with National Team. More than 500 goals
4-Messi. 2nd best player in Argentina's history. 5 ballon dors. Top scorer in Barcelona's history. Choke with National Team.
5- Di Stefano. First all time great. 5 european cups in a row. 2 ballon dors. Choke with NT.
6- Cruyff. 3 ballon dors and 3 european cups. Choke with NT.
7-Zidane. 1 world cup. 1eurocup. 1 ballon dor. 1 european cup. Elegant but not dominant.
8-RonaldoR9. 2 ballon dors 2 world cups. Best striker of all times. Not all around game. Not a single champions league title.
9. Platini. 3 ballon dors. Eurocup win. Not a dominant player.
10. Beckenbauer. Ballon dor. World cup, eurocup, 3 european cups, elegant but not a dominant player because he was a defender.
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Post by Turok_TTZ on Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:00 am

Zidane
Ronaldinho
Xavi
Iniesta
Pirlo
Nesta
Maldini
CR7
Gattuso
Makelele

Top 10 of the past 15 years or so for me.

but all time?

Zidane
Ronaldinho
Pele
Beckenbauer
Gattuso
Makelele
Nesta
CR7
Maradona
Pirlo

I have a bias for more recent players.
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Post by Jack Daniels on Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:05 am

@SuperFloren TheLegend wrote:1-Pele. Best player in Brazil's history. 3 world cups. more than 1000 goals.
2-Maradona. 1 world cup. Best player in Argentina's history. Leader of mediocre teams which he turned into champions.
3-CR7. Best player in Europe's history. 4 ballon dors in his pocket. four golden boots. 3 european cups, Top Scorer in Real Madrid history, Champions League History,Eurocup hisotry Portugal history, champion with National Team. More than 500 goals
4-Messi. 2nd best player in Argentina's history. 5 ballon dors. Top scorer in Barcelona's history. Choke with National Team.
5- Di Stefano. First all time great. 5 european cups in a row. 2 ballon dors. Choke with NT.
6- Cruyff. 3 ballon dors and 3 european cups. Choke with NT.
7-Zidane. 1 world cup. 1eurocup. 1 ballon dor. 1 european cup. Elegant but not dominant.
8-RonaldoR9. 2 ballon dors 2 world cups. Best striker of all times. Not all around game. Not a single champions league title.
9. Platini. 3 ballon dors. Eurocup win. Not a dominant player.
10. Beckenbauer. Ballon dor. World cup, eurocup, 3 european cups, elegant but not a dominant player because he was a defender.
So you're back huh? Very Happy

Great, now things may even up hehe..
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Post by Vlad the Impaler on Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:21 am

Jibers and titosantill killed it.

:bow:

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Post by titosantill on Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:01 am

everything needs to be put in context. whilst i mention how broad it is to select a ten especially when one hasn't seen them, doesn't mean the achievements of some of the game's greats should be frowned upon or downplayed. a "friendly" game in pele's time wasn't the same as a friendly game now. i would think that the racism prevalent in those times made a lot of these "friendlies" anything but a friendly game, and they were probably as competitive as they came....i doubt fifa or football bodies were punishing ignoramuses and promoting respect in those times. add to that, the harsh fouls and conditions that came with travelling for such games
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Post by Kebab on Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:33 am

Is it who won more list or?
because there are at least 50 players better than CR when it comes to performances. from recent memories Baggio rivaldo iniesta plays far better than CR in a football match.Even injury free Robben is more dangerous player. How you make top 10 "best ever" list when Bale plays better than you?

We should make a research about other legends too. those famous names who usually makes top 10 lists. were they really great? or they are just random famous names?
We need to watch their full matches. at least 15 matches.10 minutes of tricks show compilation doesnt convince me

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Post by Valkyrja on Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:39 am

@Cruijf wrote:CR is better than Platini/Xavi/Iniesta/Van Basten/the list goes on? He's a great player and one of the best but I just don't think he's top 10.


not again Laughing

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Post by Thimmy on Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:48 am

@Kebab wrote:Is it who won more list or?
because there are at least 50 players better than CR when it comes to performances. from recent memories Baggio rivaldo iniesta plays far better than CR in a football match.Even injury free Robben is more dangerous player. How you make top 10 "best ever" list when Bale plays better than you?

We should make a research about other legends too. those famous names who usually makes top 10 lists. were they really great? or they are just random famous names?
We need to watch their full matches. at least 15 matches.10 minutes of tricks show compilation doesnt convince me


Maybe because it's based on careers, and not this past season? Razz There's a trend in discussions like this where people, for better or worse, just vote for whatever and whoever is still fresh in their memories. Mind you, I will be comparing 36 year old Messi to whoever is GOAT in 2023. Messi will look bad, and people will say that old fools like me are stuck in the past smoking

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Post by zigra on Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:54 am

@Kebab wrote:Is it who won more list or?
because there are at least 50 players better than CR when it comes to performances. from recent memories Baggio rivaldo iniesta plays far better than CR in a football match.Even injury free Robben is more dangerous player. How you make top 10 "best ever" list when Bale plays better than you?

We should make a research about other legends too. those famous names who usually makes top 10 lists. were they really great? or they are just random famous names?
We need to watch their full matches. at least 15 matches.10 minutes of tricks show compilation doesnt convince me


K, please go watch at least 15 full matches of 50 random footballing greats before you come back.

hmm
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Post by rincon on Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:08 am

@Kebab wrote:Is it who won more list or?
because there are at least 50 players better than CR when it comes to performances. from recent memories Baggio rivaldo iniesta plays far better than CR in a football match.Even injury free Robben is more dangerous player. How you make top 10 "best ever" list when Bale plays better than you?

We should make a research about other legends too. those famous names who usually makes top 10 lists. were they really great? or they are just random famous names?
We need to watch their full matches. at least 15 matches.10 minutes of tricks show compilation doesnt convince me


Many players play better than CR in many games. Top Robben like you say can be better. But Kommander is just too consistent. I can't ignore that many goals that often. He has been scoring over 50 goals or so for 6 seasons in a row. CLs, Leagues, now Eurocup too. He is in my top 10 because almost none of the past greats, whose ceilings were a lot higher than CR, did it every week like he does.
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