Florentino Perez - man of mystery!

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:56 pm

Win 4 CLs in 5 year, never seen before:..... Crickets

One trophy less season: worst president ever, slacking, can't plan for shit

What about all that planning that yielded CLs? Lol this is where was all this energy when we were winning? Comical

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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:03 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:DoC, you are missing the main point of the article. it says Flo runs this club financially better than everyone. Club economics are the basis for any success club can have. He took over an almost bankrupt club that previous president had hid the extent of it and he made the club the strongest financial run club out there except for on occasion Man U.

You’re going on about his first reign that yielded ONE CL. He did bring in the galacticos but that reign was fraught with problems and mistakes that Tito has mentioned and you seem to ignore.

This reign has been completely different and entirely different in terms of success. He has learnt from his mistakes, one of which was giving some stability to squad which has been argued is a major reason behind the 4CL Trophies. You are absolutely right re the lack of activity for this past season and for sure he deserves criticism for that. But to what extent? If it is as you suggest, then who would you suggest he gets replaced with? Bottom line, we need that economic stability for any president to be aggressive in players acquisitions.

I think you're the one missing my point completely. Read again please. I said Florentino from 2009-2014 is a better planner and investor than the one from 2016-till now.

All the success he had in the CL is largely thanks to the crop of players he bought during the period I mentioned above (2009-2014) when he was running the club like it should. I never mentioned his first stint.

The Florentino we have right now which means from (2016-until now) is nothing like the Florentino from 2009-2014.

Instead of keeping his ambitions up by going after established players, he abandoned it completely and chose to go after unproven kids and completely neglected the first team, and that's why we are in such a mess right now. That's why we finished trophyless and that's why we are now going after players who 4 years ago wouldn't even make our bench.




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Post by futbol_bill on Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:46 pm

He stuck with the same lineup, based somewhat on what his coach was saying and as a result got 2or 3 more CLs (depending on what years you are referring to). He definitely is at fault for last year’s lack of activity and deserves criticism for that. I think we all agree on that. But it is equally arguable that his 2 or 3 years before that were successful.

His buying kids has not worked out, the way one would have hoped but the risk factor in doing only that certainly are high. But at end of day, it does look like at least a couple of them will work out. You always ignore the point that no club has ever been able to do what he accomplished in the last 5 years and that it was not sustainable, not by Flo nor by anyone else at any other club. Look at all the money, aggressiveness that City and PSG have spent in that same period and what do they have to show for it??

You seem to think Flo has a bottomless pit of money to spend, and even act as if it is his own money? You also seem to have no consideration to club finances / economics. This club is rich with excellence corporate governance thanks to Flo. Compare that to the oil money clubs that have that bottomless pit you want and what they get for it. Other reality is that that oil money can leave the moment these owners loose interest!
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Post by Doc on Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:53 pm

I still maintain we won those CLs due to everything neatly into place and not due to the club surgically planning out things. Unless our plan was just to sign talented footballers and hope for the best. In that case, we did well with that plan.

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Post by sportsczy on Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:24 pm

@Bill...  with sports teams, it's not about profitability entirely.  It's about intangible value based on popularity, brand, etc.  Since the mid 00s, Barca went from being far behind Madrid to now, imo, being ahead in terms of franchise value.  Other teams have bridged the gap too.

So when you look at market value, Real Madrid hasn't kept up with some other clubs and now has to compete for the top players against several teams...  not just 1 or 2.

I do think Flo has RECENTLY done a good job.  But he was a complete disaster until Mourinho took over in terms of sporting decisions.  Despite being an asshole, I give Mourinho a lot of credit for setting the club on a path that led the success once he left.  Without Mourinho, we likely still would have no coherent sporting direction (which was the case before Mourinho and, imo, again now).

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Post by The Madrid One on Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:53 am

Perez should leave the sporting direction to a committee of fucking professionals, the way things are run atm doesn't seem ideal, and this is why he gets tons of flack that overshadows his very good performance economically. Pretty simple premise that has already been beat to death around here.

Sports, in one post you say that all the players care about when signing for a club is money, now you say that because Madrid has lost intangible value, players don't come, that seems contradictory.

As far as i know, the funds we have for signing players are separate from the economic operation behind funding the stadium renovation, which in itself is a pursuit with the aim of making the club richer. So if we want a player that is worth it, we should still be able to pull the trigger. If you have explicit proof/argument on the contrary then show it.

Other than the two oil clubs (City and PSG), if we look at the Deloitte Football Money League, a lot of the clubs in the top 20 are basically meaningless in regards to competition for players and in terms of money and image, and it gives perspective as to how well we are doing. But one must also realize that Madrid is not the only big club out there who attracts big players, what's impressive is that most of those 5-6 other clubs who ARE competition are not doing much better than we are sporting wise.
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Post by Thimmy on Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:24 am

I really admire players such as Ander Herrera and Heung Min Son. They're not English, they weren't fans of their clubs before they arrived, but they unselfishly work their asses off without having high demands in terms of playing time or captaincy roles. They're not even paid that well. You get the sense that they play for the club, moreso than all of the shallow things that top players tend to get distracted by. I wish there were more players like them.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:59 am

@Thimmy wrote:I really admire players such as Ander Herrera and Heung Min Son. They're not English, they weren't fans of their clubs before they arrived, but they unselfishly work their asses off without having high demands in terms of playing time or captaincy roles. They're not even paid that well. You get the sense that they play for the club, moreso than all of the shallow things that top players tend to get distracted by. I wish there were more players like them.
hpnestly, they are not paid that great because that's all they could leverage in their career, not because they are not greedy and just play for the love of their clubs.

Herrera is almost 30 and had a pretty forgetful career at united, did absolutely nothing. He was highly touted as a young spanish midfielder and wasted his prime years at united. He wasnt so good that he could ask for a bigger deal at United (im sure he tried), but he stayed there nonetheless... ultimately there is a reason why he is running down his contract...

Son's situation is not too different, he joined a top english club in hopes to show himself and to reach the traditional elite like United, Chelsea, etc... clubs traditionally competing for titles. He progressed slowly at Spurs, but it's only NOW that he is seen as an elite EPL attacker. Before i doubt many thought about him that way, huge consistency issues, so he wasnt so good that other EPL clubs could have broken the bank for him. Unfortunately for him, he signed a long term deal at Spurs at the wrong time, he should have ran down his contract like Eriksen. Now he is shackled there. His agent dropped the ball

It's all about leverage, these two are examples of 1) not having leverage to make more money, 2) timing things poorly with respect to his prime to create more leverage.

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Post by titosantill on Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:08 am

@demon, i think 2009 to 2014 is lumping different phases together. 09 to mourinho's exit is one phase. the time frame of mourinho was mou saying who he wants and flo signing or attempting to sign said players. when mou left that whole system ended and flo went back to signing who he wanted

so the time frame should be 2014-2019. ancelotti had little to no input on who was coming in, remember we where signing players when carlo was still at psg , and his release wasn't easy. spain won the world cup and euro with a host of barca players, so flo stocked up on young spanish players, some of whom ancelotti would have never wanted.

next season will be the start of another phase as it shifts to the coach being given a bigger role. florentino can be criticized for this season and the slow degeneration of the squad, but he is no different than how he's been the last 5 years besides the fact that the targets he wants now are not as attainable as say a bale or jame were back when we signed them

and i agree with doc's post that the four ucl wins wasn't some sort of move that was surgically planned out, and the fact we hired 3 coaches in that span suggests that.
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Post by futbol_bill on Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:30 am

If there ever was a severe criticism of Flo it is that he doesn´t give sporting director (when we had one) or coach a role in player acquisitions. That has been true in both his reigns. Besides it should NOT be the role of a President. He should by rights determine budget and also salary ladder, but it should be administered by sporting people. That to me is the valid criticism!! But when you question his being president, you are missing many of the roles - functions he does so well!!!

And Tito, most of the players Mourinho had were bought the year before when he came back as President.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:45 am

@Doc wrote:I still maintain we won those CLs due to everything neatly into place and not due to the club surgically planning out things. Unless our plan was just to sign talented footballers and hope for the best. In that case, we did well with that plan.
I think you will seldom find "surgical" planning as you describe it in football. What clubs do is that they hire the best possible players and the best possible managers to win, this implies signing players who fit together, young but experienced and making sure your manager is in the best environment to succeed. This i would argue is the reason why after a few years we won so much.

The planning however evolves because of successes, players getting older, players wanting to leave, etc... Cycles in football are impossible to avoid, you win, then you dont win, then you win again. The work is to insure that the periods when you are not winning dont last more than one season. This is why you can't read this season as a stand alone, you have to account for the past 6-7 years, and it's been an exceptional cycle.

The strategy when the cuck CR leaves to say, "OK i am going to trust you young players, please step forward" is not a bad one, specially if there is not an immediate solution to replace him. Well the young guys underwhelmed, they senior player also flopped, you can analyze the reasons in details etc, etc... but the strategy was a sound one.

Now we are all expecting Hazard to sign. I would ask you if you think we will start recruiting him in June? no it's a work that started over a year ago, this is good good recruiting work. This is just an example, but to me the club has kept working hard to improving the team, and defining a strategy that's sustainable long term, where you dont spend 200 millions in signing every season to be competitive.

Not to mention the old myth that Perez decides everything for madrid by himself.... lol. Even if he did, i would understand why because he is a president elected, he needs to be involved. If the team flops, someone else will be elected. Perez relies on a couple of people in madrid, including the board, but there is no way that he will just hand over the club to a sporting director like Monchi who went to Roma, made the club sign a bunch of scrubs, flopped and ran back to Sevilla haha

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Post by titosantill on Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:58 am

the strategy wasn't sound. if it where sound flo won't all fo a sudden decide he wants to rehire zidane, spend some money and provide zidane ample support on who should come or go. if it where sound, we'd lose titles in a more respectable fashion , and we would maintain the same thing we are doing and build on it. hiring 3 coaches in one year is proof enough that it wasn't a well thought out move

@bill, when mourinho came, 4 players where immediately inserted into the line up ozil khedira di maria and carvalho, that's a huge insertion. not to mention guys like callejon granero sahin etc came under mou's watch

we go by what we know. yes, there's the 'flo has a board and they deliberate on signings', but from what we here from people around the club including ex-coaches, its all flo. no doubt he'll deliberate with some folk, especially on small level acquisitions, but based on history, flo goes for who flo wants

that monchi flopped at roma doesn't mean that strategy is terrible; one can also highlight success at sevilla. anyway i like it now, that the manager can have his say on who he wants, and he's not just told, "here are five players, now make it work".

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:09 am

Bad seasons happen, because every club go though some. that's football, and there is no amount of planning that you can do that will prevent bad seasons from happening. As i said, the goal is to have a quick turn around, and not to fall in mediocrity like United. That's a club with 0 sporting direction, i think we are light years away from that.

You can argue about the characteristic of the season which made it an unsuccessful one, but if you linger on those, which is what i see you are all doing, you are wasting your time. what matters is the big picture, i mean we won a CL after sacking a manager mid season...

the big picture here is if i look at the past 10 years, this club has been tremendously successful. You want to take that away from Perez and co because you dont like how this season went? stop

about Monchi, my point was that in a club as politically driven as Madrid, it's stupid to think the elected president would put his name on the line to let some sporting director run the football aspect of the club. If the sporting director fails, the socios kick everyone out and elect a new president. We are not sevilla or roma with a set owner who can do whatever he wants.

And we dont need to change, the way the club is being ran, between Perez, Sanchez, the board, the brazilian guy and other unnamed advisors has worked just fine.

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Post by titosantill on Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:56 am

a couple of things, that last paragraph, "we don't need to change"; we're already changing, with zidane given the type of role he has been given, that's a huge change, what we are doing now, is a complete turn around from the start of the season and the last couple of years post mourinho.

if we are giving the coach a say in who he wants or doesn't want, then we don't need a sporting director, and i'm fine with that. but flo and his "board" signing anyone and just handing em to the coach and saying here play, isn't something i have ever agreed with

and criticizing florentino doesn't equate to not giving him his props. he's the best one for the job, but you want me to praise him for what a great and amazing summer we had which led to such a beautiful season? he couldn't get people he might have wanted and that's fine, one can live with that. but there are things that could have been avoided



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Post by titosantill on Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:01 am

and i will give florentino his props, he could have stayed the course and said we will stick with our philosophy and kept things going. but the fact he not only hired zidane but as is being reported has given him some level of support that he hasn't afforded others, that should tell you more than anything, that flo knows there's a flaw in his original model

pressure is now on zidane to deliver. he'll have his say on everyone who comes in or leaves, so there's no "zidane wanted player x but board member y or flo wanted player b". in such scenario we don't need a director of football, and i'm good with that, let the coach choose his tools
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Post by The Madrid One on Thu May 16, 2019 5:37 pm

Most valuable club and strongest football brand as per this.

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Post by Perucho21 on Tue May 28, 2019 7:25 am

https://www.managingmadrid.com/2019/5/28/18641902/full-florentino-perez-interview-quotes-on-ramos-lopetegui-hazard-odegaard-more

Breakdown of his interview today. Really liked the part about Cristiano.

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Post by titosantill on Tue May 28, 2019 4:12 pm

i thought it was a good interview, i mean, it was what i expected, you don't expect a club president to give much away and show their hand, unlike say, the lakers
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