Re: UEFA Champions League Revamp

by zigra Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:22 pm

And here I thought that's why we only post banter and keep the actual discussions for the chat hmm

by rwo power Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:25 pm

I think the calling out was done loudly enough - if you continue to bicker this will not really lead to a more substantial thread either.

by Robespierre Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:30 pm

zizzle wrote:Cant believe we had 6 shots at the super cup and never win it once.

No, we played just one time.

When we won 2 CL in '60 , there was not the European Supercup.

When we won 3 Uefa Cup in 90's ,it was the CWC 's winner to play against the Champions League's winner .

The old Uefa Cups won from us was a sort of little Champions League, it was played from teams classified in 2nd - 5th place in their league , nothing to do with this Europa League Proud

by Robespierre Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:32 pm

Fiorentina and Lazio have won like Napoli in Europe tbh

But the matter is simple . Not Roma , neither Napoli or Lazio or Fiorentina ... After the three giants Milan Inter Juventus , the Italian team to have been more successful in Europe was .... the Parma .
It is no contest . Now in Serie C though.

by urbaNRoots Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:49 pm

jibers wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:
Casciavit wrote:

Good points

He obnoxiously claims that they made the rule because Serie A was unable to catch up. Despite the fact that Serie A is closing in on the PL's lead and can overtake them this year. Apart from Man City every PL team that qualified to the CL, has a R16 exit written all over those teams. Unless the draw is generous, the likes of Spurs, Arsenal, and Leicester won't make it much further than the likes of Napoli and Roma. And as far as I'm aware, the general consensus is that the PL teams don't take Europa League seriously, so I don't think we'll see any massive improvements from the PL. Unless, United takes the Europa League seriously, then maybe we will, but we can't make that judgment until the first few EL games.

Serie A had one of it's worst years last year and it did worse than the PL, but it still managed to reduce the lead, due to the removal of the 2011/2012 season.

He claims PL is only going to improve, which is true, but he totally ignores what's going on in Italy. Milan and Inter have both been bought by the Chinese this summer, which will mean investments will come in, and both teams will massively improve. He also ignores that Juve has become a powerhouse and that Roma and Napoli are making shrewd signings which, if the draw is generous, will at least make them regular R16 teams.

His only legitimate point is how bad the 3rd placed teams do in qualifications. The simple truth is that Serie A's 3rd placed teams were worse than England, Germany, and Spain's 4th placed teams. It's no surprise that the last time a Serie A team won in the qualification round was Milan vs PSV in 2013. The league was in a decline, but now it's improving, and we are going to see some big changes in the next two seasons due to the reasons I mentioned above. And of course there are other reasons such as physical preparations, season start dates, smaller teams losing their best players, but Serie A teams lost because they were worse. Despite all of that, in the past few seasons, they are in the process of catching up to England.

So yeah, if someone is going to make idiotic posts, in which they poorly back up their points despite there being overwhelming evidence against said posts, then there is no reason not to call them out.

Urban pls.

Nice post, this is what I want I'd like to see more of.

So he's proven that Adit was talking utter nonsense then and proven that what you agreed on was utter drivel as well and your retort is that?

Unbelievable.

Also Casc pretty much schooled u in that ribery thread and you had no response once again. People write long posts and there is no response and then wonder why this forum has less traffic and old posters are going away. I't because of BS like this.

I didn't agree with Adit in my post. I said he made good points and got insults for it. I was encouraging debate while you are offering nothing at all with your post.

by zizzle Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:45 am

You want someone on the internet to admit that they're wrong? You must be new to this.

by Adit Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:15 am

None of the Serie A fans have refuted any points i raised.

Srie A closing in on ? In last 5 CL co efficients Serie A had more than EPL exactly once. If anything EPL came down to Serie A level, not the other way around. Still manages to be ahead.

Thsi is despite the fact that EPL had one of the worst period..Chinese owners lol, Did you forgot FFP limits the investment to be no more than close to 30 million a year ? Chinsese or what ever isnt going to turn around the 4000 million disparity it has with EPL.

Europa league argument is also flawed since the automatic qualification to CL now gives a high enough prize for winning it and with the uncertainty of EPL top 4 more and more teams will fight for it just like Liverpool did last season.

Roma and Napoli Laughing

The same Roma that was finished second in Italy but they were viewed as as weak team last year when Real Madrid played them talks about the strength of Serie A . I remember Cascivit was the main proponent of Real Madrid got weak route, just remember that your shit teams from Serie A played its part.

None of you also has anything to say over why even the 3rd placed team from serie A couldnt qualify for the CL for past few years ? lets bring the 4th placed team and cry how some groups are piss poor and and how teams are getting easier routes.

by Adit Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:21 am

M99 wrote:
Adit wrote:
dronte wrote:

How is this.. I don't even.. OK.

Just look at this year's CL qualification knockout round teams and compare them to the top4 of the top 4 leagues.

Anyway, bad move for smaller teams, good move for overall quality, marketing and money.

Not quite sure what to think of it yet, but that historical thing has to be removed asap

Did Serie A 3rd placed team even qualify for CL this past few years despite playing the 4th tier teams of other leagues.?

Now they are bringing Fiorentinas and Milans into CL and they are also going to complain of some one getting easier group/route .

why should EPL fear Serie A when EPL at its shittiest performance in Europe still manages to be ahead of Serie A on coefficient ?

Look up the coeeficient points over the past few years before typing your idiotic posts.

All i see is EPL still ahead of Serie A . How is that even possible with the way EPL performed in Europe?

May be its you that need to look at the table.

by Sri Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:40 am

zizzle wrote:You want someone on the internet to admit that they're wrong? You must be new to this.

by S Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:50 am

Robespierre wrote:Fiorentina and Lazio have won like Napoli in Europe tbh

But the matter is simple . Not Roma , neither Napoli or Lazio or Fiorentina ... After the three giants Milan Inter Juventus , the Italian team to have been more successful in Europe was .... the Parma .
It is no contest . Now in Serie C though.

Yeah forgot Parma won a UEFA Cup in the 90s.

I think Viola might have won a cup winners cup too.

None of the other teams other than the big 3 have won the big ears is what I was saying.

by breva Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:33 am

Adit wrote:
M99 wrote:
Adit wrote:

Did Serie A 3rd placed team even qualify for CL this past few years despite playing the 4th tier teams of other leagues.?

Now they are bringing Fiorentinas and Milans into CL and they are also going to complain of some one getting easier group/route .

why should EPL fear Serie A when EPL at its shittiest performance in Europe still manages to be ahead of Serie A on coefficient ?

Look up the coeeficient points over the past few years before typing your idiotic posts.

All i see is EPL still ahead of Serie A . How is that even possible with the way EPL performed in Europe?

May be its you that need to look at the table.

Serie A had its worst year last year and is still within striking distance of overtaking the EPL this year. Perhaps you should learn to read.

by Adit Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:47 pm

UEFA Champions League Revamp - Page 5 Cb532e7d7a

But but serie Z is on rise rofl

Uefa should bring quality to CL not destroy it with shit teams like they did with Euro.

by Kaladin Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:54 pm

Historical merit needed.

by McLewis Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:58 pm

Serie A do not deserve 4 spots. Period.

I really don't think we deserve even 3.

by flameas Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:07 pm

McLewis wrote:Serie A do not deserve 4 spots. Period.

I really don't think we deserve even 3.

You really cant say that just after two games. Italy needs 4 spots. Just to develop the league itself. Champions League without Milan or Inter is not the same. I hate ManU from the bottom of my heart, but I still wish they would be in CL.

by McLewis Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:19 pm

flameas wrote:
McLewis wrote:Serie A do not deserve 4 spots. Period.

I really don't think we deserve even 3.

You really cant say that just after two games. Italy needs 4 spots. Just to develop the league itself. Champions League without Milan or Inter is not the same. I hate ManU from the bottom of my heart, but I still wish they would be in CL.

It's not just 2 games though. It's years of failure by the 3rd, 4th and 5th placed teams in either the CL or the EL. We have absolutely nothing to show for any progress made in either competition. What has Serie A done to earn back 2 CL spots when the 3rd place team has only gotten out of a CL playoff twice in the last 6 or 7 years? I think it's madness. Absolute madness.

by Hapless_Hans Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:25 pm

flameas wrote:
McLewis wrote:Serie A do not deserve 4 spots. Period.

I really don't think we deserve even 3.

You really cant say that just after two games. Italy needs 4 spots. Just to develop the league itself. Champions League without Milan or Inter is not the same. I hate ManU from the bottom of my heart, but I still wish they would be in CL.

Why the *bleep* do you deserve 4 spots?
Last season your 3rd place team couldn't beat Germany's 4th place team, this season your 3rd place team couldn't beat Portugal's 3rd place team.

If you want to play CL, then *bleep* earn it. Why would you be entitled to play CL when you can't bring the performances needed?
What the *bleep* are you complaining about? Belittling clubs from other leagues that brought their share onto the pitch?

GTFO.

This attitude makes me very very angry.

Serie A had a penalty, an open goal, a match ball to overtake the PL and get their 3+1 spots.
They bottled it because they are not good enough and don't deserve it.

End of story.

by breva Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:06 pm

Tough to beat teams with 1 or 2 less players on the field on your side. Three straight reds in a home and way is quite unusual.

by zigra Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:14 pm

Why don't they deserve it? I mean why does any league deserve 4 spots lol? They have 4 spots because at some point UEFA decided that they want more clubs from the big leagues in the CL and so they gave more spots to the big leagues. It's just more of the same again Laughing

And tbh I still don't see the problem with the reform. Certainly watching less clubs no one knows is what most people want? It's an entertainment business after all.

by Robespierre Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:21 pm

S wrote:
Robespierre wrote:Fiorentina and Lazio have won like Napoli in Europe tbh

But the matter is simple . Not Roma , neither Napoli or Lazio or Fiorentina ... After the three giants Milan Inter Juventus , the Italian team to have been more successful in Europe was .... the Parma .
It is no contest . Now in Serie C though.

Yeah forgot Parma won a UEFA Cup in the 90s.

I think Viola might have won a cup winners cup too.

None of the other teams other than the big 3 have won the big ears is what I was saying.

They won 2 Uefa Cups. And also 1 Winner Cup and 1 European Supercup.
Fiorentina won 1 Winner Cup. Sampdoria too. Lazio also + the European Supercup. While Napoli won 1 Uefa Cup (under Maradona).
Parma is easily the 4th for European history tbh
Anyway yes I don't believe we will watch another Italian team over the big 3 winning a CL

by flameas Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:32 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
flameas wrote:
McLewis wrote:Serie A do not deserve 4 spots. Period.

I really don't think we deserve even 3.

You really cant say that just after two games. Italy needs 4 spots. Just to develop the league itself. Champions League without Milan or Inter is not the same. I hate ManU from the bottom of my heart, but I still wish they would be in CL.

Why the *bleep* do you deserve 4 spots?
Last season your 3rd place team couldn't beat Germany's 4th place team, this season your 3rd place team couldn't beat Portugal's 3rd place team.

If you want to play CL, then *bleep* earn it. Why would you be entitled to play CL when you can't bring the performances needed?
What the *bleep* are you complaining about? Belittling clubs from other leagues that brought their share onto the pitch?

GTFO.

This attitude makes me very very angry.

Serie A had a penalty, an open goal, a match ball to overtake the PL and get their 3+1 spots.
They bottled it because they are not good enough and don't deserve it.

End of story.

Well, Arsenal are in CL every year and they dont archive anything. Germany is all about bayern and france is all about PSG. As Italy is all about Juve.

16 spots to top leagues still leaves enought for others.

PSG, Monaco, Lyon. Porto, Sporting. Ajax, PSV. Zenit, CSKA. Celtic.Fenerbache. and six spots for others.

by RealGunner Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:37 pm

What kind of logic is that? Arsenal are in the CL because we qualify for it everytime. Why does it matter how we do in it? It's not like we are in it instead of Bayern Munich or Barcelona.

by Hapless_Hans Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:53 am

flameas wrote:Well, Arsenal are in CL every year and they dont archive anything. Germany is all about bayern and france is all about PSG. As Italy is all about Juve.

16 spots to top leagues still leaves enought for others.

PSG, Monaco, Lyon. Porto, Sporting. Ajax, PSV. Zenit, CSKA. Celtic.Fenerbache. and six spots for others.

Staggering arrogance.

Say about UEFA what you will, but the existing system awards spots based on performance (over a five year period) and has upward and downward mobility, even a factor to benefit upward and downward mobility (that the points are divided by the number of teams a country is allowed to start).

Every team that is in CL in the current system is there on merit, both of their own team's performance and of their league's overall performance. No team are in it just because their name is AC Milan, or Man United, or Liverpool, even if they wouldn't actually be able to beat the Bulgarian or Swiss champion.

What's next, do you want to have bigger names progress out of the group regardless of points earned and games played?
Man United progress over PSV even though they finished behind them in the group, because hey let's face it PSV are scrubs?

At some point, you'll have to face the reality that sports is about competing with others.
Based on that competition, we have evidence the third place team in Portugal is stronger than that of Italy. So Italy doesn't get three teams on merit, but you're crying for 4 guaranteed spots?
GTFO.

by zigra Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:30 am

But with the new rules Italy get 4 teams based on merit because they are one of the 4 best leagues..?

by juve_gigi Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:31 am

Milan, Roma, Inter and Napoli only have themselves to blame. It was only 10 years ago that Juve was playing in Serie B and were forced to sell half their team. They almost went bankrupt. They came back to Serie A and finished in 7th place twice. But because of some great coaching and some very shrewd transfer purchases by Marotta they were not only able to survive but come back stronger than ever.

So what's Inter and Milan and Roma and Napoli's excuse? It's not like these teams were demoted to Serie B, almost went under and had to sell half their team to survive like Juve. I really don't get it. Especially Roma. They were bought by an American Billionaire and still can't compete against Portuguese teams. Juve even had the smarts to build their own stadium and now are reaping the rewards of that as well. Thinking ahead like a good team should.

It's a travesty in Italy that the only team that is thriving and has its own stadium is a team that was playing in Serie B 10 years ago. While Inter and Milan were winning Scudetti and Champions Leagues Juve were riding buses to stadiums that held maybe 5,000 fans. Yet Inter and Milan today are worse than Sassuolo, while Juve are challenging the likes of Bayern, Madrid and Barca.

It's really sad where Italy has come since the 1980's and 1990's. I can't even believe that just 20 years ago we had all the best players in the world playing in Serie A. What a shame.

We don't deserve 4 spots in CL. We only deserve one. For the Serie A champion. After that it's scraps for the picking. Heck Napoli almost lost on the weekend to a Serie B team that just got promoted. And they challenged Juve for the title last year? The jokes on us guys. Serie A is just one big disaster really. There is no hope or future for it. Until these other teams actually hire competent managers and build their own stadiums, Serie A is finished as a league. Sorry to say that as an Italian and lover of all things Italian. It just breaks my heart.

by McLewis Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:25 am

Roma have no excuse. Absolutely none.

We've done great things off the pitch, but not a damn thing on it.

I can respect if we had pushed Porto all the way and they knicked both legs. But this wasn't a normal loss. We had a potent attack and a great midfield. Yes our defense was garbage and our keeper questionable, but still shouldn't have been enough to keep us from being competitive in this game.....and yet somehow we ended up imploding anyway. A penalty and 3 red cards is not the way to getting any CL spots back. Roma don't deserve it and neither do anyone else not named Juve.

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