Burnley vs Liverpool

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Unique on Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:56 pm

The worst thing is after all this time since klopp came we all saw this coming

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Helmer on Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:11 pm

long way to go in this season.

So stupid to blame any player for any of the goal. As a manager you need to take decisions proactively and we always knew that Burnley or any team of that sort play against us with same tactics, year after year. Klopp was stupid enough not to understand that.

The body language of players was so lazy and casual that they thought it is Burnley and things will just fall in place if they touch the ball. Just insane the way we lost the ball and the amount of times we lost it in strange positions. Players dont have a clue what to do in this situation so Klopp needs to fix this otherwise bye bye to top 4 even in this season.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by ExtremistEnigma on Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:13 pm

Top 4 was/is a long shot anyways. Finishing in top 6 should be our goal tbf.
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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Nishankly on Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:53 pm

Collectively failed both in attack and defense, Klavan and Lovren were torrid. I just can't wait for us to start playing at home ffs

Spurs away up next!
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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Unique on Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:50 pm

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/232556-jurgen-klopp-s-verdict-on-lfc-s-defeat-at-burnley

Same old shit on the field and the same old waffle we hear off it.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Red Alert on Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:14 am

@Nishankly wrote:
@Red Alert wrote:
Moreno to blame for the first goal. Not sure what Lovren was doing either.



WAT


Sarcasm la'

We conceded 3 last week and everyone was going on about Moreno when Clyne was responsible for the other 2.

He was responsible for the first today which put us on the back foot from the opening minute and we were facing a struggle from then on. Klavan's pass to Clyne didn't do him any favours, mind.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Red Alert on Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:18 am

@ExtremistEnigma wrote:Top 4 was/is a long shot anyways. Finishing in top 6 should be our goal tbf.


We'll finish top 4.

Sick of this knee jerk shit.
ONE game doesn't change the fact that we HAVE improved under Klopp. I'm aware you're skeptical about him, but we have improved both on and off the pitch with him here.

A stupid mistake in the first minute gave Burnley the freedom to sit back and control the game.


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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Unique on Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:49 am

@Red Alert wrote:
@Nishankly wrote:
@Red Alert wrote:
Moreno to blame for the first goal. Not sure what Lovren was doing either.



WAT


Sarcasm la'

We conceded 3 last week and everyone was going on about Moreno when Clyne was responsible for the other 2.

He was responsible for the first today which put us on the back foot from the opening minute and we were facing a struggle from then on. Klavan's pass to Clyne didn't do him any favours, mind.
Moreno wasn't on the pitch when the goals went in rofl rofl take the day off mate rofl rofl

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Curtinho on Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:27 am

Klopp finished lower than Rodgers in his first season, and we still seem to have the same problems against any team willing to sit back, defend in numbers and hit us on the counter.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We need elite players. Coutinho is too inconsistent, Sturridge is lazy as shit and broken, and we're going to be counting on Mane and Wijnaldum to unlock a lot of teams.

At the end of the day I don't think that Klopp is a better tactical manager than Rodgers. He's probably a bit better man manager, but Rodgers is no slouch there, but ultimately he's going to have to separate himself by his work in the transfer market and so far I don't think it looks great. We'll see. I'm still optimistic -- he's in a good situation because he's got the most talented players on the team coming into their primes during his time (Coutinho, Firmino, Lovren, Clyne, etc.) and some youngsters who should be taking big step forward in Can and Origi.

I can't begin to express my frustration with this match, or how it's the same thing every damn year.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by ExtremistEnigma on Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:06 pm

@Red Alert wrote:
@ExtremistEnigma wrote:Top 4 was/is a long shot anyways. Finishing in top 6 should be our goal tbf.


We'll finish top 4.

Sick of this knee jerk shit.

And how do you reach to this conclusion? This is not a knee jerk, I had the same belief irrespective of the result of this match.

We did not show any improvements in the league over the course of last season. We are a midtable club, like it or not but that's the truth.. and there are a handful of clubs that are better than us. Top 6 and Europa should be our realistic aim this season. The more us fans expect the team to finish in the top 4, the harmful it is going to be - our players don't have the "top 4" mentality and constantly being under the pressure of overachieving will not really encourage them whatsoever.
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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Unique on Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:40 pm

I said it in the other thread. Football is easy. You get a top manager and top players you compete for and win trophies. You get a mid table manager and mid table players and you finish mid table. What we are seeing now is no different than what we saw from Rodgers team. Just throw men forward and forget about defending. I pulled klopp out last season when he didn't start by fixing the defending. People said he needs time and players. But a good manager can and should stop the rot at the back from the very start and then build on that. Klopp never did it.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Helmer on Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:44 pm

I think it is a wrong time to say anything about Klopps transfwe window. I guess towards the end of the year, we will have a better idea of what Klopp has brought in to improve the squad.

Well at least the good thing is, Klopp knows what shit is wrong so i can just hope that he fixes it soon.

And I agree that the players at the club have a midtable mentality and Klopp needs more time to change that. Over the course of last few seasons, we have consistently finished in top 5-8, so the players mentality is not going to change overnight. We all saw what happened in the last seasons, in both the finals. I was happy that Klopp prioritised EL over EPL, we never had a chance to finish in top 4 last season. But this season, there are still 36 fixtures remaining, so I would like to wait till the first 10-12 games are over and look at our performances and position in the table.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Unique on Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:00 pm

In the 2nd half of last season we were top goal scorers. But we gave up 50 goals. But klopp spends 60mil on forward players and 4 mil on defenders. And as far as I know never even looked at a DM player. The first thing you should do when you join a new club is make it right at the back. Do that and you always have a chance. Not only did klopp not make that the first thing to do it seems like he didn't do it at all.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Curtinho on Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:57 pm

We've been desperate for midfield protection of the back 4 for a while now. Rodgers did actually adapt and change his tactics to alleviate some of the pressure when he switched to the 3-4-3 but he was still axed before his transfer market dealings weren't good enough (funny, because I'm sure if the Alexis transfer had gone off he'd still be our manager). I liked his philosophy and his style to be honest. The expectations were just a bit too high for him because of the massive season he led us to with Suarez and Sturridge at the helm -- he was doomed as soon as Suarez was sold, Alexis refused to come here and Sturridge turned to glass. I encourage all of you to go back and re-watch the 14/15 season to see how badly we were missing clinical finishers; that season could have ended very differently with a healthy confident Sturridge or Alexis up front.

Anyway, I still think Klopp is a good manager and he can help this team do great things, but the reality is that we're going to need top players to do it. Leicester last season was as fluky as it gets. With the top managers in the league now and the way money is being thrown around our club needs to be smarter in the market and it's that simple. If we're going to play a 4-3-3 we need a legitimate 6 behind whatever combination of Henderson/Lallana/Wijnaldum/Grujic we are throwing out there. I would love for Liverpool to try and pry Strootman away from Roma, but that's probably a pipe dream.

Anyway...I hope that Klopp can become more pragmatic and learn to deal with sides that are content to close up shop and hit on the counter. Apparently it was his downfall in the Bundesliga once he was figured out as well.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Red Alert on Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:33 am

@Unique wrote:Moreno wasn't on the pitch when the goals went in rofl rofl take the day off mate rofl rofl


Did you even read what I wrote?

I said Clyne was at fault, not Moreno...

I was taking the piss (when I was on the piss, funny that) saying Moreno in the FIRST post / on match day at the begin, and that's only because last week against Arsenal everybody was saying Moreno almost cost us the game when we conceded 2 goals cause of Clyne. We're going to continue to have a lot of problems with any full backs if Henderson is going to play as that 'anchor'.

@ExtremistEnigma wrote:
@Red Alert wrote:
@ExtremistEnigma wrote:Top 4 was/is a long shot anyways. Finishing in top 6 should be our goal tbf.


We'll finish top 4.

Sick of this knee jerk shit.

And how do you reach to this conclusion? This is not a knee jerk, I had the same belief irrespective of the result of this match.

We did not show any improvements in the league over the course of last season. We are a midtable club, like it or not but that's the truth.. and there are a handful of clubs that are better than us. Top 6 and Europa should be our realistic aim this season. The more us fans expect the team to finish in the top 4, the harmful it is going to be - our players don't have the "top 4" mentality and constantly being under the pressure of overachieving will not really encourage them whatsoever.


We are top half club fighting for a European spot, I agree with you. I agree with you with the mentality of the players as well and I don't like it at all. When you buy half of Southampton you have to accept you'll become Southampton I guess. I mean we've finished once in the top 4 since 2010 ffs. Laughing

Anyway, even if we don't have finish top 4 this season I'll believe in Klopp. We're better ON and OFF the pitch with him at the helm. He knows how to make teams. And with Liverpool's finances being better than Dortmund's he actually has the ability to keep key players at the club, rather than losing Gotze, Lewandoski etc every season. Again, I said it in another post anyway he has a vision and believes in it, he's not going to abandon a whole project because of one very disappointing defeat. It won't happen instantly, it's all about patience and consistency. I mean we're 2 games in ffs, the seasons not over. Laughing

And I truly believe we'll make massive strides this season - even claiming a top 4 spot. We don't have European ties this year. The manager knows what he's doing. We've bought players and they'll need to time to gel. We don't have a home game for first couple months with Anfield being redeveloped, no? And we're still getting players fit / missing half our defence via injury.

Anyway, look at his response after the game. They're little things but they mean a lot. Again, he takes all responsibility and says we'll improve on it. The mans a winner / knows how to win. Last year he was given a free pass from me as he settled / didn't have a pre-season / wasn't his team, but the year before how many times did Rodgers take responsibility? Because all I remember was "Sterling this, Balotelli that," he literally scapegoated / gave an excuse for every defeat without showing improvement AFTER ALMOST FOUR YEARS. He never admitted he was wrong. There was no confidence in our game. The players looked lost and defeated half the time. Club was in shambles, and it was coming from management. We're in a better place now.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Unique on Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:32 am

@Red Alert wrote:
@Unique wrote:Moreno wasn't on the pitch when the goals went in rofl rofl take the day off mate rofl rofl


Did you even read what I wrote?

I said Clyne was at fault, not Moreno...

I was taking the piss (when I was on the piss, funny that) saying Moreno in the FIRST post / on match day at the begin, and that's only because last week against Arsenal everybody was saying Moreno almost cost us the game when we conceded 2 goals cause of Clyne. We're going to continue to have a lot of problems with any full backs if Henderson is going to play as that 'anchor'.

@ExtremistEnigma wrote:
@Red Alert wrote:

We'll finish top 4.

Sick of this knee jerk shit.

And how do you reach to this conclusion? This is not a knee jerk, I had the same belief irrespective of the result of this match.

We did not show any improvements in the league over the course of last season. We are a midtable club, like it or not but that's the truth.. and there are a handful of clubs that are better than us. Top 6 and Europa should be our realistic aim this season. The more us fans expect the team to finish in the top 4, the harmful it is going to be - our players don't have the "top 4" mentality and constantly being under the pressure of overachieving will not really encourage them whatsoever.


We are top half club fighting for a European spot, I agree with you. I agree with you with the mentality of the players as well and I don't like it at all. When you buy half of Southampton you have to accept you'll become Southampton I guess. I mean we've finished once in the top 4 since 2010 ffs. Laughing

Anyway, even if we don't have finish top 4 this season I'll believe in Klopp. We're better ON and OFF the pitch with him at the helm. He knows how to make teams. And with Liverpool's finances being better than Dortmund's he actually has the ability to keep key players at the club, rather than losing Gotze, Lewandoski etc every season. Again, I said it in another post anyway he has a vision and believes in it, he's not going to abandon a whole project because of one very disappointing defeat. It won't happen instantly, it's all about patience and consistency. I mean we're 2 games in ffs, the seasons not over. Laughing

And I truly believe we'll make massive strides this season - even claiming a top 4 spot. We don't have European ties this year. The manager knows what he's doing. We've bought players and they'll need to time to gel. We don't have a home game for first couple months with Anfield being redeveloped, no? And we're still getting players fit / missing half our defence via injury.

Anyway, look at his response after the game. They're little things but they mean a lot. Again, he takes all responsibility and says we'll improve on it. The mans a winner / knows how to win. Last year he was given a free pass from me as he settled / didn't have a pre-season / wasn't his team, but the year before how many times did Rodgers take responsibility? Because all I remember was "Sterling this, Balotelli that," he literally scapegoated / gave an excuse for every defeat without showing improvement AFTER ALMOST FOUR YEARS. He never admitted he was wrong. There was no confidence in our game. The players looked lost and defeated half the time. Club was in shambles, and it was coming from management. We're in a better place now.
no. what you were doing was trying to talk down to people like they are idiots when infact it is you that's the idiot. Wink

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Curtinho on Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:33 pm

You can say we're in a better place now, but all the fanfare and love for Klopp aside under Rodgers we never finished lower than 7th. Klopp finished 8th in his first season with the club, and has never looked once like he's made an adaptation to playing against teams that defend with 10 and hit on the counter. It was the same tactical deficiency that sunk him in the Bundesliga. The reality is that it doesn't matter how well he can set up against better teams in European competition if he can't get into Europe, and he won't if he can't figure out how to beat the likes of Burnley.

I was hoping he'd evolve at Liverpool and bring in better players. I'm still optimistic but damn so far he has not done either.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Don't call me James on Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:06 pm

Crawl out of David Brent's ass already, will you. You're embarrassing yourself.

He's not here anymore. He's gone. There's no need to take jibes at our manager who is been here for 8 odd months. Give him some time. He's proven over his career that Rodgers isn't worthy enough to even wash his feet.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Unique on Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:12 pm

@Don't call me James wrote:Crawl out of David Brent's ass already, will you. You're embarrassing yourself.

He's not here anymore. He's gone. There's no need to take jibes at our manager who is been here for 8 odd months. Give him some time. He's proven over his career that Rodgers isn't worthy enough to even wash his feet.
the thing is mate when should we expect to see some major improvement. klopp has signed players for all positions but as of yet we still have the same problems that we had under Rodgers.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Don't call me James on Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:09 pm

If you don't see improvements already from Rodgers time then you are *bleep* blind.

And it's only 2 games into the season. You call yourself a supporter, which is fine and dandy but maybe for a change you do actual supporting of the team instead of whining all the damn time.

If we're midtable by January, I'll join and whine with you. But for the love of god can we at least have some faith at the start of the season.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by LeBéninois on Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:31 pm

It's only one loss guys ffs. Klopp potential cieling is higher than Rodgers's so I don't know why some of you think he's not an improvement.
You guys leak too much goals tho.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Curtinho on Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:37 pm

@Don't call me James wrote:Crawl out of David Brent's ass already, will you. You're embarrassing yourself.


This is rich.

@LeBéninois wrote:It's only one loss guys ffs. Klopp potential cieling is higher than Rodgers's so I don't know why some of you think he's not an improvement.
You guys leak too much goals tho.


I agree it's only one loss, but it's a pattern of play dating back to his time in the Bundesliga. Don't get me wrong I still have high hopes for Klopp and I support him 100%, but this is not a new problem he's having and it's obviously concerning. I'm not going to get into the Klopp/Rodgers debate anymore as has been mentioned Rodgers is gone and Klopp is here and I'm happy to have him.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Unique on Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:02 pm

why does everyone say give klopp time. klopp has had half a season to look at his players and 2 transfer windows to buy his own players and a good preseason people said he needed. now people are saying give him more time. well pep conte and mourinho have only just walked in the door at their clubs and will all battle for the title from the word go. how comes they don't need 2 years to change things. how comes city chelsea and man u don't give away the same silly goals to relagation fodder.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Unique on Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:05 pm

and keep your eye on everton under koeman. lets see how long it takes him to turn things around there.

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Red Alert on Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:28 am

@Unique wrote:why does everyone say give klopp time. klopp has had half a season to look at his players and 2 transfer windows to buy his own players and a good preseason people said he needed. now people are saying give him more time. well pep conte and mourinho have only just walked in the door at their clubs and will all battle for the title from the word go. how comes they don't need 2 years to change things. how comes city chelsea and man u don't give away the same silly goals to relagation fodder.


Now I can understand your frustrated, and rightfully so but your ignorance is truly astonishing just sayin'.

Like....

You claim to be 42.

You claim to be a manager / coach.

You claim to follow the PL for a very long.

Yet aren't very bright.....????

Your arguments are dull and always repetitive. ._.

@Curtinho wrote:You can say we're in a better place now, but all the fanfare and love for Klopp aside under Rodgers we never finished lower than 7th. Klopp finished 8th in his first season with the club, and has never looked once like he's made an adaptation to playing against teams that defend with 10 and hit on the counter. It was the same tactical deficiency that sunk him in the Bundesliga. The reality is that it doesn't matter how well he can set up against better teams in European competition if he can't get into Europe, and he won't if he can't figure out how to beat the likes of Burnley.

I was hoping he'd evolve at Liverpool and bring in better players. I'm still optimistic but damn so far he has not done either.


And you can claim that we were better under Rodgers.

End of the day we spent 300m and 3-4 years later we didn't win any silverware / get into any 'finals'. And we were STILL rebuilding.

Klopp did. WITH a very very very mediocre weak minded squad with literally no depth.

Also for his "8th spot" finish he took over 1/3rd of the season in what, 10th/11th? Still not good enough and not really defending him, but he had a free pass from me last season. The squad was terrible. And the club was in a terrible place. Internally and externally.

After 3 years there was no progress and that was my biggest concern with Rodgers in charge. There was no hope in management, no future. 8 months into Klopp's reign and it's the complete opposite. We are going places. And if you can't see that I really don't know what to tell you.

"His tactical defiency" thing is a myth btw. He had a poor start, YES. Not denying that. But he turned it around in the second half of the season, no? From what I saw the club struggled replacing key personnel and also had injuries but didn't really pay attention to it.

Also, using your own logic against you. Who's the better manager?

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Re: Burnley vs Liverpool

Post by Unique on Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:39 pm

[quote="Red Alert"]
@Unique wrote:why does everyone say give klopp time. klopp has had half a season to look at his players and 2 transfer windows to buy his own players and a good preseason people said he needed. now people are saying give him more time. well pep conte and mourinho have only just walked in the door at their clubs and will all battle for the title from the word go. how comes they don't need 2 years to change things. how comes city chelsea and man u don't give away the same silly goals to relagation fodder.


Now I can understand your frustrated, and rightfully so but your ignorance is truly astonishing just sayin'.

Like....

You claim to be 42.

You claim to be a manager / coach.

You claim to follow the PL for a very long.

Yet aren't very bright.....????

Your arguments are dull and always repetitive. ._.

@Curtinho wrote:You can say we're in a better place now, but all the fanfare and love for Klopp aside under Rodgers we never finished lower than 7th. Klopp finished 8th in his first season with the club, and has never looked once like he's made an adaptation to playing against teams that defend with 10 and hit on the counter. It was the same tactical deficiency that sunk him in the Bundesliga. The reality is that it doesn't matter how well he can set up against better teams in European competition if he can't get into Europe, and he won't if he can't figure out how to beat the likes of Burnley.

I was hoping he'd evolve at Liverpool and bring in better players. I'm still optimistic but damn so far he has not done either.


And you can claim that we were better under Rodgers.

End of the day we spent 300m and 3-4 years later we didn't win any silverware / get into any 'finals'. And we were STILL rebuilding.

Klopp did. WITH a very very very mediocre weak minded squad with literally no depth.

Also for his "8th spot" finish he took over 1/3rd of the season in what, 10th/11th? Still not good enough and not really defending him, but he had a free pass from me last season. The squad was terrible. And the club was in a terrible place. Internally and externally.

After 3 years there was no progress and that was my biggest concern with Rodgers in charge. There was no hope in management, no future. 8 months into Klopp's reign and it's the complete opposite. We are going places. And if you can't see that I really don't know what to tell you.

"His tactical defiency" thing is a myth btw. He had a poor start, YES. Not denying that. But he turned it around in the second half of the season, no? From what I saw the club struggled replacing key personnel and also had injuries but didn't really pay attention to it.

Also, using your own logic against you. Who's the better manager?

Manager
Swansea City

Football League Championship play-offs: 2010–11[29]
Individual
LMA Manager of the Year (1): 2013–14[62]
Premier League Manager of the Month (3): January 2012,[37] August 2013,[54] March 2014[56]
Football League Championship Manager of the Month (1): February 2011[26]

50% win record

Or

[quote]Managerial honours[edit]

Mainz 05
2. Bundesliga promotion: 2003–04
Borussia Dortmund
Bundesliga: 2010–11,[20] 2011–12[21]
DFB-Pokal: 2011–12[27]
DFL-Supercup: 2013,[87] 2014[87]
UEFA Champions League: Runner-up 2012–13
Liverpool
Football League Cup: Runner-up 2015-16
UEFA Europa League: Runner-up 2015-16
Individual
German Football Manager of the Year: 2011,[88] 2012[88]




the problem is facts back up my point. We are still weak at set plays. We still defend like a lge 2 team. We still have no plan in place to break down the bus parking teams. We still have no plan B. And let's face it are any of klopps transfers out standing. The problem with people like you who run their mouth of is you can't admit you were wrong so you just call people names or just come up with another shit excuse.

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