Real Betis v Real Madrid

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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:10 pm

You're joking.  Pepe passed it to the opposition and it got turned around and you're blaming it on....  Varane???

Pepe just missed Kroos right in the middle of the pitch.  Everyone was pushing up as they didn't expect it. Varane matched up with the closest guy, which is what he's supposed to do... but Marcelo was long gone and Isco couldn't track the next man over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyGj6o63v24

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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:17 pm

Pepe misplaced the pass but 90% of our players were in our own half. Had Varane simply stayed in his position and not run forward the Betis player wouldn't have found someone free behind him. He made it so easy for them by getting out of his position which is becoming a regular occurence with him these days. If that was Pepe he would've blocked the passing line to that wide player instead of falling for that Betis player's trick like an inexperienced defender would
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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:21 pm

No man.... when the ball is turned over back to you, everyone pushes up.  That's why Varane was up.  You don't have time to recover when there's a missplaced pass right in the middle like that.  

This one is absolutely not on him.  Not even 1%.  Heck, you can't even blame Marcelo for not being there either because he was pushing up too.  

It was a scramble play in a bad area where there was a very quick 2v1.  Nothing anyone could do. That was entirely on Pepe... he had a good game though. Mistakes happen.

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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:40 pm

If Varane had stayed back and not pushed up Juaquin who's trick Varane fell for would've received the ball and had nobody to pass to so would probably have taken a pot shot himself. That was a rookie mistake by Varane you don't expect defenders at the highest level to do. Pepe made a misplaced pass but if Varane had defended that correctly it would've amounted to nothing. Everytime i watch that clip i get more and more preplexed by Varane's decision to leave a see of space behind him knowing Marcelo was not going to be there

Maybe i am nitpickikg but Varane keeps making these small errors almost on a regular basis right now. It didn't hurt us today but might do if we play Atleti
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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:47 pm

When you recover the ball and it's under control, the defense doesn't sit back.  Everyone pushes up.  It just very basic team movement.

Listen, i understand Pepe is your lovechild.  I make excuses for my favorite players too at times so I get it.  But this was entirely on him and nobody else's fault at all.  Bad turnover in the middle of the pitch that led to an outnumbered attack with the defenders moving in the wrong direction.  There was no defensive shape as everyone was transitioning.  Happens.

Here's the vid again for people to see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyGj6o63v24

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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:11 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Listen, i understand Pepe is your lovechild. I make excuses for my favorite players too at times so I get it.

I really wish you wouldn't cause I think it's a little dishonest to make excuses for your favorite players even when they're at fault.

Their performance should be the only factor you take into account when you're evaluating them. You can have a soft spot for them, but you should never let that admiration cloud your judgment.

Criticize them when they deserve to be criticized and praise them when they deserve to be praised. Simple as that.

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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:38 pm

Trust me I call out players no matter who they are. I am not making excuses for anyone here. As I said Pepe made a misplaced pass but it was not like that created a 2v1 or 3v1 or anything. Everyone were still in our half. I just think Varane should have stayed back instead of getting sucked up ala Ramos. Would have said the same if that was Pepe or anyone else.

I support the team not a specific player. Bale won me over and i didn't particularly like the signing. I am not one to be biased. I like Isco but I have said many times that he has been poor. I have called Carvajal poor and I like him etc. I am not a fanboy, I just feel like those people have too much time on their hands
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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:28 am

my take....kroos with good set piece deliveries, kovacic, tremendous game. isco did well too. betis i thought were very naive, these are the kind of games that suit us, catching teams on the back foot and quick counters, betis played directly into that, by not being disciplined at all

Joaquin has to be a victim of i don't know, unguided loyalty perhaps? really should have left betis when the likes of united and chelsea were making moves for him....remaining there only to end up at the likes of valencia, malaga and co, wasn't the smartest of decisions
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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:17 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:
@sportsczy wrote:Listen, i understand Pepe is your lovechild. I make excuses for my favorite players too at times so I get it.

I really wish you wouldn't cause I think it's a little dishonest to make excuses for your favorite players even when they're at fault.

Their performance should be the only factor you take into account when you're evaluating them. You can have a soft spot for them, but you should never let that admiration cloud your judgment.

Criticize them when they deserve to be criticized and praise them when they deserve to be praised. Simple as that.

You're very much guilty of this too and so is everyone, whether you recognize it or not. But I don't want to get into this argument.

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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:31 pm

Could you give me one example?

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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:26 pm

Our next couple of games:

Legia (H)
Bilbao (H)
Cultural something Copa game (A)
Alaves (A)
Legia (A)
Leganes (H)
Atleti (A)
Sporting (A)
Copa (H)
Elclasico (A)
Dortmund (H)

If we manage to go unbeaten until December i.e. end of these fixtures then I seriously rate ZZ. It's very doable. Possible banana skin games include Sporting away and Alaves away. Two tough games against our rivals in Spain, apart from that we should win the rest of the games
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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:30 pm

This is when ZZ shows us that he has learnt from his own, Rafa's and Carlo's mistakes.

No need to overplay players and play only one way vs Atleti ala Carlo
No need to play Cattenacio against Atleti and Barca ala Rafa
No need to bunker up in your own half after going a goal up ala ZZ
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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:00 pm

My take. Great game (finally). No complaints at all. If you look at the ratings given out, they gave everyone (except Asensio who was Not rated), an almost perfect score. Bad luck to both Pepe and Varane on goal, but other than that they both played well.
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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by Doc on Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:04 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:Doc doesn't really criticize the team when the criticism is deserved. He only saves his criticism for the good performances eco smile

True but that was not a criticism. Joaquin was really getting the better of our guys even though he sold real guns for our 2nd goal.

Also, I make excuses for my favourite players all the time. I have yet to really criticize Isco, Dani, Kroos or Modric.

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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:50 pm

Tbh Juaquin lost possession cheaply in his own half very often. On one of those occassions it lead to a goal (our 2nd).
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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by vanDEEZ on Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:59 pm

Standouts for me were Pepe (even though he is at fault for their goal), Isco, Marcelo and Kovacic.

Definitely want to see more of Isco in the upcoming games with Modric and Casemiro out.
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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:53 pm

I just went back to watch our fourth goal. What a beaut!

The last time I saw such a precise, devastating and lightning-quick counter-attack was under Mourinho. And when Ronaldo doesn't get selfish, we can turn defenses inside out.

The movement between Ronaldo, Pepe and Isco was sensational. And I think Pepe should take the credit for it cause he basically orchestrated it.

I hope it won't be the last time we score like this.


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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:02 pm

Actually most of yesterday's goals were impressive.

- a superb cross and excellent header from Varane.
- a very good final strike by Benzema after an excellent pass
- Isco's golazo after a very good feint.
- the collective goal DoC just mentioned
- can't really remember Ronaldo's, judt that it was great to see him find the net.
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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:22 pm

oh the Ronado goal? He received the ball from Morata and he basically broke through the Betis defense on a great run, taking a group of the opposition's players out of the game before reaching the edge of the penalty area and rifling a wonderful rocket of a shot.

Great goal, but I enjoy collective goals more. That's why the fourth is my favorite.

In terms of individual goals, Isco's second takes the cake for me. He curled a stunner into Betis' top right-hand corner of the net.


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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:41 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:I just went back to watch our fourth goal. What a beaut!

The last time I saw such a precise, devastating and lightning-quick counter-attack was under Mourinho. And when Ronaldo doesn't get selfish, we can turn defenses inside out.

The movement between Ronaldo, Pepe and Isco was sensational. And I think Pepe should take the credit for it cause he basically orchestrated it.

I hope it won't be the last time we score like this.



it depends. the truth is, we score goals like that often, even last season, look up some of our goals, as well as under carlo as well. this game suited us to a T; opponents make grave mistakes in our half, we get the ball wit space to run, and one touch counter attacks. that has been our football since 2010

the difference with this and some of the previous games was betis' being reckless. about two of our goals were direct, quick dangerous counters; marcelo's goal was shoddy defending after benzema's shot. las palmas, espanyol, villareal didn't approach the games like this. in those games, we had limited space to pass, very limited opportunities to hit them on the break, and in the eibar game in particular, eibar were the ones looking to hit us on the break

i bring all this up because, what happened yesterday has always happened when we have space to operate e.g. benzema's goal against betis last season which was another good team goal, or our game away at espanyol last season, or cristiano's goal against shaktar. we are a counter attacking side, our problem is when the opponents are hell bent on being disciplined.....or our defense goes awol

btw this isn't a criticism, i absolutely loved that pepe assist, especially his pass to kovacic to start the play. i'm just pointing out, that this has always been our strength...we should be wary when the opponents are in no mood to get adventurous
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Re: Real Betis v Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:54 am

reason this is tito... is that in these situations, we don't need to build through the midfield. The forwards are getting the ball easily with space to maneuver. We struggle when the midfield has to create space to get the ball to the forwards in good conditions... we just don't have those kinds of midfielders.

So yeah... when teams really play compact and don't leave a lot of room... we tend to struggle. My guess is that we always will. BBC aren't dribbler that can create room for themselves. They need midfielder support.

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