Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:32 am

hmm

I can't hate on some prime PL > Everything banter tbh.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:34 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:I think playing for Juventus, a team with a clear identity and structure, made him look greater than he is. it was a more controlled envrionment that kept his immaturity in check.

At united there is none of that, he was signed as a galactico to lead a project and he is failing miserably


Isn't that the case for every player ever though lol? Everyone looks better when there's an actual identity and structure in place to support them.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by S on Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:38 am

@Firenze wrote:
@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:Pogba is such a waste of potential, i understand why it's driving Mourinho crazy.


PL is the reason he's wasting his potential though.

Against Saussuolo and Pescara he looked like Prime Yaya on roids.

Fergie was right all along ffs


Di Maria, Mata, Falcao, Pogba, Depay, Herrera, Mkhitaryan, Martial, soon to be Grealish etc

Yep Fergie was right all along. You were nothing before him. You're nothing after him :coffee:
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Firenze on Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:41 am

@S wrote:
@Firenze wrote:
@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:


PL is the reason he's wasting his potential though.

Against Saussuolo and Pescara he looked like Prime Yaya on roids.

Fergie was right all along ffs


Di Maria, Mata, Falcao, Pogba, Depay, Herrera, Mkhitaryan, Martial, soon to be Grealish etc

Yep Fergie was right all along. You were nothing before him. You're nothing after him :coffee:


I'm pretty sure the stat from the end of last season still remains true; we've won the most trophies of any club in the PL post Fergie. Sit down clown.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:24 am

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:I think playing for Juventus, a team with a clear identity and structure, made him look greater than he is. it was a more controlled envrionment that kept his immaturity in check.

At united there is none of that, he was signed as a galactico to lead a project and he is failing miserably


Isn't that the case for every player ever though lol? Everyone looks better when there's an actual identity and structure in place to support them.


Exactly. Players do not exist outside of the context of a team,  a coach, a club, a competition.
There will never be an occasion to judge a player without context.


So why would we always assume the worst circumstances to be those to reveal the true quality of a player? "Well he was great at Juve but now at Man United we can see he's actually a fraud"? Makes no sense.

We can say that there exist circumstances in which he can perform like a top player. I.e., it's not mere potential or hype. He has that ability. We could see it at Juve.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:35 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:I think playing for Juventus, a team with a clear identity and structure, made him look greater than he is. it was a more controlled envrionment that kept his immaturity in check.

At united there is none of that, he was signed as a galactico to lead a project and he is failing miserably


Isn't that the case for every player ever though lol? Everyone looks better when there's an actual identity and structure in place to support them.


Exactly. Players do not exist outside of the context of a team,  a coach, a club, a competition.
There will never be an occasion to judge a player without context.


So why would we always assume the worst circumstances to be those to reveal the true quality of a player? "Well he was great at Juve but now at Man United we can see he's actually a fraud"? Makes no sense.

We can say that there exist circumstances in which he can perform like a top player. I.e., it's not mere potential or hype. He has that ability. We could see it at Juve.
i think one's ability to perform in different contexts, different teams is also a measure of greatness.

That is what Pogba was up against, he was to take all that he had learned at Juventus and use it to succeed at Manchester. He has been good for them, just not as great as the expectation Man Utd had when signing him.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:08 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:


Isn't that the case for every player ever though lol? Everyone looks better when there's an actual identity and structure in place to support them.


Exactly. Players do not exist outside of the context of a team,  a coach, a club, a competition.
There will never be an occasion to judge a player without context.


So why would we always assume the worst circumstances to be those to reveal the true quality of a player? "Well he was great at Juve but now at Man United we can see he's actually a fraud"? Makes no sense.

We can say that there exist circumstances in which he can perform like a top player. I.e., it's not mere potential or hype. He has that ability. We could see it at Juve.
i think one's ability to perform in different contexts, different teams is also a measure of greatness.

That is what Pogba was up against, he was to take all that he had learned at Juventus and use it to succeed at Manchester. He has been good for them, just not as great as the expectation Man Utd had when signing him.


True.
Obviously, if one player has a record of individually performing  well in various contexts, maybe even in otherwise failing teams, we will probably judge him higher than a player who shone under one manager, flopped under another or various others.
My point would be, it's hard to exactly scale and compare contexts, team mechanics, and most of all it's hard to compare careers and career decisions.
Should we hold it against Messi he's been a one club man? Surely his greatness is beyond doubt and we don't need to imgin what would have happened had he chosen to play for Leicester under Ranieri.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by futbol_bill on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:18 am

when you are hyped up and go for120M, the expectation is you are a galáctico and can carry the club towards greatness!

In this respect, Pogba is a total failure.
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:21 am

@futbol_bill wrote:when you are hyped up and go for120M, the expectation is you are a galáctico and can carry the club towards greatness!

In this respect, Pogba is a total failure.


We could also say that automatically assuming such expectations is the actual failure

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by futbol_bill on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:22 am

I believe I can name at least 10 CM/ AMs that are equal
Or better than Pogba and none would demand a price of 120M not the salary/ image rights, Pogba enjoys.
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Firenze on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:22 am

I guess Coutinho and Dembele are total failures too hmm

Pogba led us to the treble in his first season and has put in a lot better performances than those two

he also cost us 90m pounds not 120m, even if that's euros it's off

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Firenze on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:23 am

@futbol_bill wrote:I believe I can name at least 10 CM/ AMs that are equal
Or better than Pogba and none would demand a price of 120M not the salary/ image rights, Pogba enjoys.


List em. If I see Isco on that list I'm @RealGunner to ban you IMO :coffee: Pogba plays CM anyway for us so AM's are pointless to compare

I don't think there are 10 better CM than him currently
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Doc on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:30 am

Just fyi Bill, the treble Firenze is talking about is the Community shield, EFL cup (not the FA Cup) and the Europa League. Not to be confused with a standard treble of league, cup (CDR, Coppa Italia, FA Cup, whatever it is in Germany, etc., Champions' League).

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:30 am

@Firenze wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote:I believe I can name at least 10 CM/ AMs that are equal
Or better than Pogba and none would demand a price of 120M not the salary/ image rights, Pogba enjoys.


List em. If I see Isco on that list I'm @RealGunner to ban you IMO :coffee: Pogba plays CM anyway for us so AM's are pointless to compare

I don't think there are 10 better CM than him currently
Modric
Kroos
Koke
Pjanic
De Bruyne
Kante
Thiago
Eriksen
Silva
James

Old man Iniesta still better



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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Firenze on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:32 am

Eriksen is an AM,

James, Pjanic, OUUUUUUUUUUUUUT

The rest are better

dunno about Koke since I don't watch La Liga outside of Europe and he never looks elite there

Iniesta in 2018 rofl

Just hating now IMO. He's a top 10 CM, just at the lower end.
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:40 am

@Firenze wrote:Eriksen is an AM,

James, Pjanic, OUUUUUUUUUUUUUT

The rest are better

dunno about Koke since I don't watch La Liga outside of Europe and he never looks elite there

Iniesta in 2018 rofl

Just hating now IMO. He's a top 10 CM, just at the lower end.
I am not hating, frankly i could list lesser names that i have seen perform at a higher level than pogba this season. That is to say that he is very average.

If you dont want to compare Eriksen to Pogba, then Pogba is not a CM.

Do you want me to add the likes of Dembele, Tolisso, Nzonzi or Rakitic?

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Doc on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:41 am

Old man Ini is still better as a CM than Paul but Paul is definitely better as a CM than Silva and James. Clearly Nick ran out of names coming down to the end lol. Surprised he didn't add Rakitic who had his finest season at Barcelona.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:42 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@Firenze wrote:
@futbol_bill wrote:I believe I can name at least 10 CM/ AMs that are equal
Or better than Pogba and none would demand a price of 120M not the salary/ image rights, Pogba enjoys.


List em. If I see Isco on that list I'm @RealGunner to ban you IMO :coffee: Pogba plays CM anyway for us so AM's are pointless to compare

I don't think there are 10 better CM than him currently
Modric
Kroos
Koke
Pjanic
De Bruyne
Kante
Thiago
Eriksen
Silva
James

Old man Iniesta still better




Vidal easily better than Pogba too

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Firenze on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:44 am

don't bother mentioning any names unless they exceed this



and that's with him being average by his standards ffs
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Doc on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:49 am

Adjusted list with rating above 7.48 and played the CM role (or something thereof) similar to Paul this season:
Casemiro
De Bruyne
Silva
Coutinho
James
Vidal
Payet
Fabinho
Paul Pogba

So yeah, top 10.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Firenze on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:53 am

He actually has a slightly higher rating playing at DM hmm

anyway, based on this season, I don't care what the stats say, I don't think he has been a top 10 CM/DM. Too inconsistent.

I know I was just arguing that he was but that's just me instinctively defending our players when people shit on them. He hasn't been a total failure though. But you expect consistency from elite players, he doesn't offer that. Far too often a passenger. If he can step up in that regard, I'd be very happy. As it stands, not too bothered if we sell him this summer.
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Unique on Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:13 pm

People now starting to see how much of a bum this guy really is.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by S on Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:14 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@Firenze wrote:


List em. If I see Isco on that list I'm @RealGunner to ban you IMO :coffee: Pogba plays CM anyway for us so AM's are pointless to compare

I don't think there are 10 better CM than him currently
Modric
Kroos
Koke
Pjanic
De Bruyne
Kante
Thiago
Eriksen
Silva
James

Old man Iniesta still better




Vidal easily better than Pogba too


Magnificent-Savic too
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by S on Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:17 pm

@Firenze wrote:Eriksen is an AM,

James, Pjanic, OUUUUUUUUUUUUUT

The rest are better

dunno about Koke since I don't watch La Liga outside of Europe and he never looks elite there

Iniesta in 2018 rofl

Just hating now IMO. He's a top 10 CM, just at the lower end.


Sorry to break it you Eugene, but Pjanic is indeed better.
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Firenze on Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:22 pm

some 28 year old that's never looked good outside of matches vs scrubs in Serie A lol, aight m8

Pjanic is a B+ midfielder, you just want him to be better than that because if you admit he isn't then your midfield is worthless

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by S on Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:26 pm

@Firenze wrote:some 28 year old that's never looked good outside of matches vs scrubs in Serie A lol, aight m8

Pjanic is a B+ midfielder, you just want him to be better than that because if you admit he isn't then your midfield is worthless


He's had terrific performances against Real Madrid and Barcelona something Pogba could only dream of at this point.
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