Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Unique on Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:52 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:Are we just going to pretend that hugely talented players like Ozil, Deco, Di Maria, Alonso, Varane, Lampard, Sneijder, Milito etc... did not do well under Mourinho? we are just gonna let this slide to blame Pogba's performances on just Mourinho?

The real problem here is that Pogba wants freedom to do whatever the fck he wants on the pitch, without being accountable to anyone. The one time he was good with france was for a special occasion in the world cup, and he has looked nothing like that player since the world cup ended. It was clearly not his natural way of playing.

With Juve he was essentially the left winger, and he was afforded that freedom because of the back 3 and juventus defensive excellence.
rofl rofl rofl rofl

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:54 pm

@Unique wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:Are we just going to pretend that hugely talented players like Ozil, Deco, Di Maria, Alonso, Varane, Lampard, Sneijder, Milito etc... did not do well under Mourinho? we are just gonna let this slide to blame Pogba's performances on just Mourinho?

The real problem here is that Pogba wants freedom to do whatever the fck he wants on the pitch, without being accountable to anyone. The one time he was good with france was for a special occasion in the world cup, and he has looked nothing like that player since the world cup ended. It was clearly not his natural way of playing.

With Juve he was essentially the left winger, and he was afforded that freedom because of the back 3 and juventus defensive excellence.
rofl rofl rofl rofl
framing this to point the idiocy of someone who can't read Smile

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Unique on Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:11 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@Unique wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:Are we just going to pretend that hugely talented players like Ozil, Deco, Di Maria, Alonso, Varane, Lampard, Sneijder, Milito etc... did not do well under Mourinho? we are just gonna let this slide to blame Pogba's performances on just Mourinho?

The real problem here is that Pogba wants freedom to do whatever the fck he wants on the pitch, without being accountable to anyone. The one time he was good with france was for a special occasion in the world cup, and he has looked nothing like that player since the world cup ended. It was clearly not his natural way of playing.

With Juve he was essentially the left winger, and he was afforded that freedom because of the back 3 and juventus defensive excellence.
rofl rofl rofl rofl
framing this to point the idiocy of someone who can't read Smile
lampard played his best football under mourinho you igit. Laughing also Sneijder was being touted as one of the best performing players in the world under mourinho. :coffee: my apologies you are right i did just look at that quick and miss read it. the ozil and Di maria part threw me off as they were not great under mourinho. cheers


Last edited by Unique on Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:13 pm

@Unique wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@Unique wrote: rofl rofl rofl rofl
framing this to point the idiocy of someone who can't read Smile
lampard played his best football under mourinho you igit. Laughing
and it continues rofl you can't fcking read can you? rofl

this is really a sight to behold




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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Firenze on Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:33 am

Laughing

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Arquitescu on Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:57 am

Nick pretty much has it spot on.

Pogba whilst immensely skilled clearly has not been coached beyond a small period in United's youth and Juventus by Conte and Allegri, to utilise those skills to a honed vector, as flicks and tricks and long shots or runs not proportionate to the team's position works in Futsal or lower leagues but never will it in Top echelon football.

Reminds of a fighter whom has all the technical skills from roundhouse kick to a spinning back-heel but within a fight it is all pre-meditated and not from actual fight IQ or ring generalship.

Mourinho has become tactically insipid and clearly needs 2 years off to rediscover, reinvent him and take distance from the pitch for perspective; but too many players have thrived under Mourinho to put down Pogba's failures down to him, as in Juventus a lot of the responsibilities were carried by Pirlo, Vidal and occasionally Marchisio in the midfield variables.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by sportsczy on Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:32 pm

Arqi... how you you explain Modric, Hazard, Lukaku, De Buryne, Salah, Pogba, Sanchez, Rashford, Martial, Willian, Mkhitaryan, Mata, etc. all looking shells of themselves over the past 4 years when they played under Mourinho?  You can throw Marcelo, Herrera, Bailly, Shaw, etc. into the mix too.

Which creative/attacking player has Mourinho gotten the best out of in recent times? I'm curious because, even the great CR did his scoring despite Mourinho and because he didn't need Mou to help him with anything (he's self motivated and an individualist). They feuded publicly. Hazard... did ok before falling off a cliff as he feuded with Mourinho (sound familiar?).

Mourinho was already slipping during his tenure at Madrid. Then it became worse at Chelsea. At Man U, it's a complete disaster.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by rincon on Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:44 pm

That's not how anything works. You cannot say "X" player underperformed so Mourinho is always at fault. On the contrary, many players have shown us how they succeeded under Mourinho, many have not. Because Mou is not god nor the devil, he may be finished but he isn't the one out in the field jogging around and misplacing the simplest passes.

How is it possible that you can't see that Pogba has been a unprofessional during his time at United? You expect an unreal level of hand holding to make Pogba look like a regular footballer, when he is supposed to be a top player.

The player names you are throwing around there don't make any sense at all.
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by sportsczy on Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:51 pm

What kind of player though Rincon.  Point me to a creative/attacking player that has thrived under Mourinho in recent times.  Ibra and that's it basically...  and we all know that Ibra would "get his" even if the devil himself was his manager.  His personality is that strong.

Ii'll even go further... which was the last creative midfielder that did well under Mou?  Ozil in his early days at Madrid looks like the last one to me.  He wants his CMs to play defense and recover balls mainly...  even wanted Ozil to do that, which we all know is a ridiculous thing to ask from Ozil.

Mourinho has a format and profiles for each role in his format. You either fit or you don't. It's the most stupidly rigid thing I've ever seen.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by rincon on Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:05 pm

@sportsczy wrote:What kind of player though Rincon.  Point me to a creative/attacking player that has thrived under Mourinho in recent times.  Ibra and that's it basically...  and we all know that Ibra would "get his" even if the devil himself was his manager.  His personality is that strong.

You answered your own question. So you are just saying Pogba is too weak mentally, unlike Ibra.

What needs to be explained about Rashford or Mata? Mou relies on them and they are playing at their level. Mata is a who he has always been, and Rashford came through and found his level with Mou.

Any of the Madrid players you name count, all of them played at a huge level for Mou. Ronaldo scored his 50 goals, Marcelo, Ramos and Pepe became protagonists and top players. They got to the semis 3 (?) times after years of enjoying Madrid losing in the R16 to Lyon and co. Only Modric was wasted.

Didn't Hazard have two of the best seasons of his career with Mou? Back everyone in football saw Hazard and thought he would be a future BdO winner. Diego Costa as well.

Enough examples of success there. Pogba has been nowhere near as successful at United as any of the top players here have been under Mou.
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Kaladin on Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:13 pm

Agreed with Rincon, people are nitpicking with Mou, he's coached a lot of creative players that thrived. Pogba isn't nearly at the same level of those players (Ozil, Sneijder, Hazard), can't pass, constantly loses the ball, tries to impress, he's living in his own head.

Also, this is another power struggle, there is a clear divide between Mou and Pogba, and you won't get the best of either unless the other leaves.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Valkyrja on Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:18 pm

What baffles me is why the hell, Mourinho of all people, would splash >50% of his summer transfer budget on a player that was clear from the beginnig that he wouldn't buy into his philosphy, (i'm talking about summer 2016) when the one who was screaming "Mourinho player" more than anyone went to Chelsea for 1/5 of what Utd paid to Juve for Pogba.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by sportsczy on Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:19 pm

Again, you're avoiding the question.  There's only a handful of Ibra and CR personalities in the world.  They tend to by CFs btw.

Diego Costa is not creative.  He's a thug playing football.

Hazard... feuded like crazy with Mourinho.  You think Pogba looks bad... Hazard of 2015-2016 was horrible.  He scored 6 goals in 43 games all comps for Chelsea as he literally didn't want to be there.

And even then, Hazard is a striker. Strikers can play individually and perform. Midfielders cannot.

Balance that against Modric, Lukaku, De Buryne, Salah, Pogba, Sanchez, Rashford, Martial, Willian, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Marcelo, Herrera, Bailly, Shaw, etc.  Ramos, Pepe, iker, Benzema, etc all had massive problems with Mou too.

The list of failures is very very very long.  You can only point to one success (Costa who, again, is a thug) and Hazard (before he got into a fight with Mou).

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by sportsczy on Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:23 pm

And I'll point out that, despite the criticism of not scoring goals and being an impact player on the attack, Pogba was statistically the best CM in the EPL in his first season at Man U.  I also think he was either the best or top 2-3 before the big fall out with mou in December of last season.

He was also among the best midfielders in the world during his last 3 seasons at Juve.

The rebellion of Pogba against Mou, and the performance impact, is literally 12 months old. You're saying the we should ignore the immense player that Pogba was at club all but the last 12 months of his career... and his WC... because; well because GL says so?

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by rincon on Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:43 pm

No one is avoiding the question, you just don't like the answers. You asked what "creative/attacking" players. Ronaldo, Ibra and Costa are obviously attacking players.

Same with Hazard, you are just ignoring the two seasons of his best football that Hazard played when he shone and won the league. Under Mou Hazard was PL player of the season. Got on the BdO top 10. Twice Chelsea player of the year. PFA 1st and 2nd place, etc. So I guess he kinda succeeded. MILES ahead of what Pogba has shown at United.

Keep writing Ramos, Rashford, Mata, Pepe, Marcelo for whatever reason. They have all obviously succeeded with Mou. Mkhitaryan, Lukaku, look at the names you are reaching for. What has Mkhi done in Arsenal to show that it isn't simply a matter of he wasn't good enough.

@sportsczy wrote:He was also among the best midfielders in the world during his last 3 seasons at Juve.

The rebellion of Pogba against Mou, and the performance impact, is literally 12 months old.  You're saying the we should ignore the immense player that Pogba was at club all but the last 12 months of his career... and his WC...  because; well because GL says so?

You are arguing against yourself. You are saying that Pogba was a top player for Juve, and for France, and then...?

He obviously hasn't forgotten how to run and pass, so what happened? Could it be that his lack of professionalism and clownish behavior are damaging his club and his career?

What is the other explanation? That the manager is such a bad guy that Pogba would rather fail than do his best for the club. Yes that sounds like a top professional.


Last edited by rincon on Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Valkyrja on Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:43 pm

With regards to Hazard's case:

“I sent him the message to say I was sorry he had gone and … well … just that I was sorry,” says the Belgian. “We’d enjoyed all that success together last season, but this time round we hadn’t. I felt a little bit guilty because I’d been player of the year. I’d been one of the most decisive players, and this year I’d performed less well.

“I hadn’t been at the same level. So I sent that text to José and he came back to me, wishing me all the best for the future. For a team of champions to go through what we have this year even I can’t explain. Things have been better recently, but we’re still not winning games quite as we used to. No one can put his finger on what’s happened at Chelsea.”


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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by rincon on Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:45 pm

He also said: "If I’m now asked one coach with whom I want to work again, then I say: Mourinho.”
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:52 pm

I don't really care for this debate but can we stop mentioning player of the year like it means anything in England.

It's not like it is in other Countries, it's a meaningless award that means nothing.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by rincon on Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:53 pm

It definitely means that he didn't flop
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Kaladin on Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:03 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I don't really care for this debate but can we stop mentioning player of the year like it means anything in England.

It's not like it is in other Countries, it's a meaningless award that means nothing.


?

Its not like the award has been mishanded every year, Bale, Suarez Salah, Vardy, all of them had legitimate cases, same with Hazard

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:09 pm

Considering Scott Parker won it when his team barely won a game all season and Ryan Giggs won it while playing less than a dozen games all season no it doesn't.

Like i said it's meaningless award which means absolutely nothing past that the media likes you.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by sportsczy on Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:11 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/feb/05/eden-hazard-chelsea-interview-jose-mourinho

I bet you Pogba will say something similar once it's over... i.e. I want to thank Mourinho for giving me a chance to return to Man U, sorry it didn't work out, we still managed to win some trophies, I wish him the best of luck, etc.

This is PR at its best. Disingenuous... but makes the person appear to have class.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:14 pm

Oh and BTW another reason the award is meaningless is that the deadline for votes is in February...

You know when the stuff that actually matters still hasn't taken place yet.

Can say what you like but please don't bring them up as a argument lol.

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by sportsczy on Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:18 pm

Which is exactly what happened during his last year at Madrid and same thing at Chelsea.  If we're going to question Pogba's professionalism in this case...  then lets not be hypocrites and question everyone else's professionalism as well.

And nobody, including Pogba, is/was trying to intentionally fail.  In every case, the players are in such a negative mental and emotional space that they look awful on the pitch.  The fans see the players playing awful football and blame them. The feeling is that players can manage themselves and should be able to perform at a high level regardless of circumstance. It's as false a statement in football as it is in a professional setting. Hence the reason top managers and CEOs get paid so well... if they weren't necessary, nobody would pay them.

I really don't think Modric, Lukaku, De Buryne, Salah, Pogba, Sanchez, Rashford, Martial, Willian, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Marcelo, Herrera, Bailly, Shaw, Ramos, Pepe, iker, Benzema, etc. intentionally played like shit.


Last edited by sportsczy on Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by rincon on Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:21 pm

@sportsczy wrote:I really don't think Modric, Lukaku, De Buryne, Salah, Pogba, Sanchez, Rashford, Martial, Willian, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Marcelo, Herrera, Bailly, Shaw, Ramos, Pepe, iker, Benzema, etc. intentionally played like shit.

This list of players might as well be your sig Laughing
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

Post by futbol_bill on Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:22 pm

Sports keeps saying Mourinho is a shit coach and to that point I think we can all agree. But the disappointment of Pogba is where most of us disagree. For sure, some of it lies with Mourinho or rather the lack of results of team. But surely he must see that Pogba bears a lot of responsibility for his lack of professionalism and lacking basic skills (or at least not demonstrating them). Sports has been the initiator of this Pogba hype for at least 4 years now. He was overhyped both by his agent and Sports and moved for a price and salary that he could never live up to. You can count the very good performances in the past three years and you wouldn’t get to even 10!
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Re: Pogba is the worst 120m € player out there

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