Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:58 pm

That pass which Lucas/Morata fecked up ffs :bow:

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by vanDEEZ on Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:59 pm

Isco sub was odd for me, but I think it was a purely tactical change and Zidane decided to take off a midfielder- Kroos isn't coming off and the only alternative to Isco was Kovacic (who also had a good game).

It came down to Kova being a bit more of a CM than Isco, I think.

Personally I would have given Isco more time, but I don't make those decisions.
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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by sportsczy on Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:06 pm

Do you really think that a massive drama wouldn't have occurred if Ronaldo gets subbed? It's one of those things where you measure risk with reward... taking him out in a game like this in late October isn't worth it.

Come clasicos, games against Atleti and games in April/May... then yeah, Zidane needs to make the choice and take the heat. But in this game... I don't getting into a potential clash with Ronaldo is worth it.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by Adit on Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:08 pm

Kroos,Isco and kovacic all of them were individually brilliant this game . All of them made few clear cut chances that were not properly handled in the end. We have huge competition in the middle and no competition upfront due to politics.I do think most of our back 6 need proper coaching on where to be when we are with the ball.. They are either too close or running with the ball towards another teammate. Just need to learn that art of moving the ball with out affecting the over all shape. There were times Pepe taking responsibility of play making and driving the ball forward. We need to avoid that at all cost. He genuinely believes he is beckenboaer so good idea is not to give him too much ball.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by titosantill on Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:38 pm

my take...generally a good game, kroos marcelo and bale were our best players (in no particular order). kroos' delivery was very good, a player like him needs a bit of offensive freedom. something i pointed to back when rafa and ancelotti were playing him as a defensive midfielder. he has a lot in his boots to be restricting him to chasing squirrels and rabbits all over the pitch

say what you want, zidane's subs were fine (let's give the man some credit, he's had a history of good substitutions at madrid). the subs were good because, lucas did well down the right, held the ball up, forced fouls, got in good positions. it also meant bale moved down the left, and i though his football was absolutely magnificent from the 11 flank, kept catching the bilbao defense unawares. i think he was the one who looped that pass to lucas, that he unwisely decided to lay off to morata as some sort of birthday gift that morata missed...(maybe it was kroos, but i think t'was bale)

he also combined well with marcelo out wide, and that cross for morata's goal was a gem. finally, morata coming on after that miss, finishing his breakfast. way to hustle.
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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by titosantill on Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:42 pm

oh yes, varane, that useless thing he did there. him and carvajal nearly threw this one away. quit the unnecessary back passes if they're not needed. these risks are not worth taking, 2-1 up, we don't need aesthetic short passes back to the goalie and all that rubbish. i was very happy when keylor got one of those passes and cleared the damn ball away. same thing too with pepe when he blasted the ball out late on. nothing fancy, just get the three points and move on....

i hope keylor talks to varane not to try such tricks next time. reminds me of one goal eto'o scored against us after carlos did something very similar
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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by Doc on Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:44 pm

That looping over the top ball to Lucas was from Kovacic, not Kroos or Bale I think. He too had a nice match.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by titosantill on Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:49 pm

thanks, my mistake then, nice ball kova. difficult to concentrate on games when wifey decides that's the time she wants to play scary monster with them. at a point i even thought marcelo crossed that ball for morata's goal. i was like when did we hire beckham to teach marcelo how to cross? then upon the replay saw t'was bale....kovacic played well too, but bale marcelo kroos were dynamic....good subs from zidane too
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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by shadexticos on Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:56 pm

Kovacic is my new favorite Madrid player. He has got too much potential, sometimes he gets stuck on what to do.
Who saw that instinctive Rabonna Pass?

and the Isco sub was just a bad one. Isco has been fantastic in the past two games. He has finally learned when to hold on to the ball.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:56 pm

ZZ's subs are predictable tbh. It's always Lucas, Morata and 1 more player Laughing
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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by Valkyrja on Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:00 pm

shadexticos wrote:Kovacic is my new favorite Madrid player. He has got too much potential, sometimes he gets stuck on what to do.
Who saw that instinctive Rabonna Pass?

and the Isco sub was just a bad one. Isco has been fantastic in the past two games. He has finally learned when to hold on to the ball.


Rabona is the trick i hate the most. shows lack of quality/faith in your weaker foot

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by shadexticos on Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:00 pm

BBC is just an idea! its a total mismash

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by shadexticos on Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:07 pm

Valkyrja wrote:
shadexticos wrote:Kovacic is my new favorite Madrid player. He has got too much potential, sometimes he gets stuck on what to do.
Who saw that instinctive Rabonna Pass?

and the Isco sub was just a bad one. Isco has been fantastic in the past two games. He has finally learned when to hold on to the ball.


Rabona is the trick i hate the most. shows lack of quality/faith in your weaker foot


Rabonna is an improvised trick devised to help players use their strong foot when they find themselves in positions they can only use their weaker foot. The way the leg and the foot is shaped mimicks that of the weaker foot.

in its most basic form, its a smart way of getting out of trouble but some players use it solely for showoff. e.g Quaresma!
Kovacic's own today was clearly not for showoff. If u noticed, he was wrong footed and he noticed the opening within a split second so he had to do it.

I wasnt awed by the Rabonna, it was the quick split second thought - the improvisation.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by titosantill on Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:14 pm

@hala, i woulnd't say they're predictable subs. he brings them out at different times for different people. if he knows they'll work, then stick to it. no need to get unpredictable with subs if they don't have a track record of delivering

@valkyrja, i agree with you totally, i thought i was the only one who never liked the rabona move. its one of those things good to look at, but its a question of effectiveness, and just tells me the player has absolutely little to no faith in his weaker foot....and a lot of times its often way off, like you might have as well gone with your weaker foot if that was going to be the end product
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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by StrugaRock on Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:43 pm

Its not about if he trusts his weaker foot or not, it is about what he thinks will work. It wasn't a show off Rabona pass, if you play footy, sometimes you will realize that Rabona is your best chance to pass a ball, or shoot, it has happened to me, you are either wrong footed , the ball is not placed where your weaker foot will do the job, so a rabona helps you out. I can place a better pass/shot with rabona than with my weaker foot, hell I can move the ball better by using the force than my weaker foot.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by titosantill on Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:52 pm

i'm not criticizing kova for using it....just not awed by it....unless it works, which isn't the case a lot of the time. and yes it is about the trust or lack of in the weaker foot. as you pointed out
StrugaRock wrote:I can place a better pass/shot with rabona than with my weaker foot, hell I can move the ball better by using the force than my weaker foot.


and that's the reason many players use it. beautiful when it works, but i bet the ratio isn't that great. di maria used to do it all the time, and many times would botch the cross. maradona too. many of the guys who do it are painfully one footed, and that's why.....its also a good showboating technique, i'll give it that....i have absolutely no problems with showboating whatsoever
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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by StrugaRock on Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:01 am

Lack of skills in your weaker foot... yes
Trusting your weaker foot... not so much

But if you see them as the same thing, than we are in the same page.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by shadexticos on Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:22 am

StrugaRock wrote:Its not about if he trusts his weaker foot or not, it is about what he thinks will work. It wasn't a show off Rabona pass, if you play footy, sometimes you will realize that Rabona is your best chance to pass a ball, or shoot, it has happened to me, you are either wrong footed , the ball is not placed where your weaker foot will do the job, so a rabona helps you out. I can place a better pass/shot with rabona than with my weaker foot, hell I can move the ball better by using the force than my weaker foot.


that

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by shadexticos on Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:31 am

Am i the only one that thinks this midfield combination of isco kroos and kova is the most dynamic we have, except for its defensive solidity which Kova is slowly bringing.

Does anyone else think Kroos and modric are too lethargic when they play together, stringing together too many sideway passes and exchanging endless unreasonable passes between themselves

Individually, its not an exaggeration to call them the 1st and 2nd best CMs in the world in no respective order, but It just feels like having two Xavis on the field.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by halamadrid2 on Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:57 am

I think we should expect more from Modric offensively. I would love it if he put a few balls between the cb and fb for Bale to chase like Kovacic does. But I think if you need midfield dominance rather than alot of goals Modric is definitely the go to guy. But I agree he is too much of a sideways pass kind of guy rather than create. Kroos is awesome, he creates one of the highest goalscoring chances in our team funnily enough and his awesome crossfield balls to either fb is bloody brilliant. I like Isco too who can offer a challenge for one of the CM positions, and when this guy is on form he is hard to stop. I hope ZZ subbing didn't deter him from wanting to work hard. I've absolutely loved his last 2 games.

Anyways, is this the best (utilised) bench we have had since I don't know when? Lucas, Morata, Asensio, James were all on the bench and 2 of them came in and changed not only the dynamic but also the score of the game. Hopefully Coentrao can provide a little bit of competition for Marcelo who continues to be our weakest link in defence. Imagine if Carlo actually utilised his bench like ZZ as opposed to ostracising everyone on the bench and playing the starters every single bloody game.

ZZ is doing very well with this squad. Even when Ronaldo decided to shoot at the end of the first half instead of passing and got booed, ZZ was visibly clapping a gesture towards the fans to clap instead. I hope if/when we have a shite run of form the players return the favour. On a squad harmony level ZZ is doing brilliantly, that was our biggest issue under Mou and Rafa

Also we need to cut out these mistakes we do. Poor Navas can't keep a clean sheet because his defenders infront of him keep making mistakes, giving away penalties or just get exposed due to lack of Casemiro. ZZ needs to fix that pronto. If not Barca will be 4-0 up before we've even had a chance to get going

I like our chances for a treble this season tbh. Never have I been this much of a believer. We have had so many injuries to key players but hasn't deterred us from winning and playing well. We just need to win against Atleti and at least draw vs Barca. If you guys haven't noticed we have been unbeaten since February, and this season we have never looked like we should be losing, sometimes we haven't deserved a win but still won but never have we ever come out with a draw and deserved a loss. It has always been either last minute goals with someone doing a roulette in our own half or giving away a penalty etc. When Casemiro comes back we will be able to rotate the midfield again. Can't wait tbh

Carvajal got himself his fifth yellow card which guarantees his presence vs Atleti barring an injury. So we will see Danilo vs Leganes. I don't mind Leganes are poor so Danilo should be alright. Hope Nacho starts too
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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by halamadrid2 on Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:07 am

Lol I am just reading the news and there's abit of a campaign in Spain for Lucas and Morata to start over 2 of the BBC Proud I don't mind tbh, they are awesome and it'll probably light a fire under the BBC's backsides. Imagine Ronaldo being replaced in the line up by a guy he named last season as someone he doesn't rate Laughing
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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by Doc on Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:44 pm

Two Spaniards to replace to non Spaniards hmm

For what it's worth, Benzema is actually getting back in the thick of things. However, his fitness looks absolutely shattered. He usually can last a full 90 even after coming from an injury. Now, he barely lasts 50. Ronaldo too was getting back into form until that pos showing Sunday. I'm hoping it's just one of those days where nothing works out for you.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by vanDEEZ on Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:28 pm

I don't understand why Benzema keeps starting. He doesn't look fully fit, definitely not match fitness and Morata has been great.

At least give it a go.

Lucas on the other hand I understand why he is coming off the bench. Ronaldo is not an option and Bale is playing great.
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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by halamadrid2 on Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:54 pm

Funnily enough despite all that competition for Lucas he still gets 30 or more mins whenever he comes on whereas Morata would be lucky if he got more than 15 mins. I mean ZZ waited until the 90th min to sub him in against Dortmund Laughing

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by sportsczy on Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:41 pm

Benz has 4 goals in 8 starts... despite playing all but the last 2 obviously unfit.  I thought he looked good yday.

Morata had his chance...  He got 5 starts while Benz was injured.  He got 1 goal and 0 assists on 16 shots in those starts.  411 minutes too.

I just think that his strengths... which are mostly focused around speed... work a lot better when he comes in late in games and can go at a tired defense.  It's no surprise he has 2 goals and 2 assists coming on as a sub.  In the end, that's how Juve ended up using him too.  They gave him starts in situations where they were looking to counter attack (Bayern, Madrid, Barca, etc.)...  and brought him off the bench in all the other cases.  Like us, Juve tried to play him in regular games but he couldn't get results.

With Ronaldo struggling, Zidane really need a 9 that can be counted on to score goals efficiently and operate in tight spaces since Ronaldo and Bale take a lot of room.  As the game goes along and Ronaldo ends up just sitting in the box more and more, it allows the CF to play in space more.... and that suits Morata better imo.

I think Benz is picking up form now. The game before this last one, he looked got for about 35 mins. In this last one, I thought all but the last 10 mins were good. His legs and sharpness are coming back.

I like the combo... hit them with Benz for 65 mins and the let Morata hit them with his speed for the last 25 mins. I think it's a good combo. We'll get a lot of production. Would be nice if Ronaldo got subbed when he's bad... but that won't happen.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Athletic Bilbao

Post by halamadrid2 on Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:18 pm

Lol at he got his chance with 4/5 games from start as opposed to 7 seasons of pandering to his needs Laughing .

Morata should be starting and the whole footballing world bar ZZ, chad and sport agree with that.

Both Lucas and Morata are playing at a higher level both Benz and Ronaldo. Only Bale is playing on a similar level to them

Funnily enough despite being given peanuts in minutes he has 4 goals and 2 assists in all competitions whereas Benz has 4 goals and 0 assists in all competitions which have all come in LL. It's absolutely criminal that Morata isn't starting. In the games before Morata was benched he gave a Motm performance against LaReal, scored against Celta and provided an assist against Osasuna that's hardly a poor return from his measly 3 starts

My ideal from 6 would be:

Bale-Kroos-Kova-Lucas
Benz-Morata

If it were up to me but the bbc will continue to start and we will continue to be bailed out by our subs provided ZZ doesn't fall into a slumber and forgets he has to put people on
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