Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

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Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by halamadrid2 on Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:22 am

Dortmund's season has been up and down. They have been leaking goals but they have ver good attackers who will punish you if you let them. They will probably play the same team that played us in the first leg. Both teams have since gotte back players from injuries. We have Marcelo, Casemiro and Kovacic whereas Dortmund have Reus back. This will probably be their line up:

Weidenfeller
Ginter-Socratis-Bartra
Piszcek-Castro-Weigl-Schmelzer
Dembele-Auba-Reus

Their weak links are their wingbacks and goalie. If we can get as many shots off as possible we willno doubt score.

We are probably lining up as follows:

Navas
Carvajal-Varane-Ramos-Marcelo
Modric-Casemiro-Kovacic
Lucas-Benz-Ronaldo

But hope ZZ suprises me and plays Isco instead of Benzema.

Team news:

Sahin is injured so won't make their team. They have Guirerro and Kagawa off injured too. Apart from that they are pretty healthy
-Bale is out with a long term injury
-Coentrao and Danilo are off injured too. Kroos has joined traning but won't be fit enough to make the bench. They are talking about him being called up for his first game at the CWC which i dont get because he's been training for at least 2 training sessions prior to the Clasico
-Morata has been doing light training. There is talk of him making the bench for this game. I guess we will know after the session today
-Casemiro is fully fit and got some minutes under his belt in the Copa and then Elclasico
-Neither team has anyone who could be suspended with a booking. So I expect a high intensity game


Last edited by halamadrid2 on Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by halamadrid2 on Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:58 am

I just had a look at the highlights in our last match. Where the heck was our midfield? Dortmund got so many free shots from the edge of our box it's a miracle that we came out with the draw

Spoiler:
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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by sportsczy on Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:11 pm

Pay attention to Osman Dembele. He's been on fire and could be a good candidate for Real Madrid.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by halamadrid2 on Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:46 pm

Morata, Danilo and Coentrao are back in training. Only Bale is off now

Edit: Ousmane Dembele has proven to be a tricky winger with poor decision making imo. He reminds me alot of Inaki Williams from Bilbao. I think if they hone their skills the right way they can really become something. They look like they are the new set of wingers who will announce their names to the world. Marcelo is probably going to get torched alot. We just need someone there to help him
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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by Doc on Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:40 pm

Should be an entertaining match all around. Usually, I would have been absolutely sure Benzema would start but Zidane knows us. He knows the Bernabeu. They are not going to be nice to him, might be wise to leave him on the bench and hope they forget about him. Highly unlikely though.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by vanDEEZ on Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:10 pm

I would keep resting Casemiro, I don't think he's ready to start- plus the midfield of Isco/Modric/Kovacic was quite effective.

Casemiro coming off the bench gives me less anxiety
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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by FennecFox7 on Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:48 pm

Dembele looks like a really exciting player to me. Marcelo will get eaten alive.

Here's to hoping we play a 4-5-1 with Ronaldo as the CF

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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by sportsczy on Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:48 pm

Hala... Ousmane Dembele is 19. He has 4 goals and 10 assists already for Dortmund in not even half a season. The last 5 games, he has 3 goals and 4 assists. He's really picking up a lot of form. You haven't watched him recently. He's on fire.

He will end up with 20+ assists and 10+ goals if healthy. Mark my words.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by halamadrid2 on Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:18 pm

Real Madrid Squad:

Goalkeepers: Keylor Navas, Casilla and Yáñez.

Defenders: Carvajal, Pepe, Ramos, Varane, Danilo and Marcelo.

Midfielders: Kroos, James, Casemiro, Modric, Asensio and Isco.

Strikers: Cristiano Ronaldo, Benzema, Morata and Lucas Vázquez

Unless Kovacic is injured I don't know why he was left out. And Danilo getting called up instead of Nacho really makes me cringe. I guess the line up picks itself. Modric-Casemiro-Isco and Lucas-Benz-Ronaldo in attacks.........
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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by halamadrid2 on Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:44 pm

I don't know how much truth thete is to this but Marca has ZZ down as saying:

James' situation is a problem," Zidane said at his pre-match press conference before the Dortmund game.

"His extra training means nothing to me.

"Most players train at Valdebebas after games, for recovery or something else.

"He is available and I have the same deal with James as I do with everyone."

Questioned on whether this could mean the end for the midfielder at Madrid, Zidane would neither confirm or deny it, but stressed James' importance.

"He is a Real Madrid player and is important for me," Zidane continued.

"Lately he's not playing much but I'm going to need the whole group."

That sounds like something Mou would say not ZZ. Marca tend to sensationalise everything ZZ says. But I don't think it's all bs. He has definitely changed his tune about James lately
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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:24 pm

Yeah I read that earlier today but I didn't really give it too much importance. I figured only a fluent Spanish speaker can tell us what he really meant. Journalists tend to tamper with quotes when translating to add drama and sell more copies.

But that quote aside, Z clearly doesn't value James much, and it shows through the meager minutes of playing time he's given to the Colombian.

I'm not really against benching someone if they're not playing well enough. What I'm absolutely against, however, is not treating everybody equally. There are players who have been playing just as bad, if not worse, than James, yet they seem to be untouchable in the starting eleven.

Then, you have others like Kovacic and Nacho who play very well every time they get summoned, but for some reason, they only get to play when one of the starters gets injured.

It seems to me that Z doesn't really care whether you play like a god or an amateur. If everybody is fit, he's going to choose the same players. Form and merit don't matter as far as he's concerned.

Kova and Nacho have been left out from the squad for the Dortmund game. If they are injured, then fine. But if they're not, Z needs to take a good look in the mirror because he's being criminally unfair to them.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by titosantill on Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:04 pm

@demon, the way i see it is; when a coach favors other players who are clearly not as talented to a player with obviously more talent, then it's not just about 'not playing well'. coaches find ways to involve their best players, even if james isn't a lw or rw, if bale/cristiano are out, most coaches will field the next best option based on talent, not necessarily position. obviously defense is different, you won't put a cm in place for an injured lb/rb

but when i see zidane call up lucas, isco, morata et al before james, it tells me it might be an attitude problem from james or even his choices away from the pitch. maybe the coach sees something in training he doesn't like, he thinks the player isn't taking it seriously.

unless the talent gap is extremely large, most coaches will play players who aren't in form over players they can't trust based on their response or attitude in things like training (where we fans don't get to watch). i don't know, my guess is, its an attitude thing, not necessarily a form thing
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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:11 pm

I'm actually with Z on that one. I believe that James hasn't played well enough to convince Z to give him more minutes. So it's only fair that he has been riding the bench lately.

On the other hand, there are players like Kova and Nacho who have shown time and time again that they are reliable and worthy to play regularly, but Z for some reason doesn't give them a fair treatment.

When Hala pointed out that Danilo was called up and Nacho wasn't, I had to check it for myself because I couldn't believe it. So unless they're injured, Z shouldn't have left them out.


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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by titosantill on Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:36 pm

i think kova and nacho have gotten fair treatment. i mean kova has played a lot of minutes this season, obviously you're not going to play nacho ahead of ramos pepe nor even varane (who hasn't always been in the best of form this season), but even nacho has probably played as many minutes as i've seen him play

remember, this is just one game, a pattern hasn't been established yet. i know, we all get apprehensive anytime danilo's going out there. but if he is putting in work in training, and the manager feels he is responding well, he'll look for chances to get him minutes, and if he doesn't perform well, he'll take him off.

granted, it is a game we really want to win, but i think the fact that we've qualified is what's making the coaching staff feel they should give some guys minutes and rest some others. who knows, maybe zidane wants them to rest. its not like there's a pattern developing here where he's constantly benching them. they both have gotten good minutes so far, and i expect kovacic to get even more, based on his progress and sometimes other midfielders will rest since these guys seem to get injured at any time

let's not forget kroos is returning, so kova will have some good competition against kroos luka and casemiro....i always love good ol fashioned healthy competition in the squad
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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:36 pm

I respectfully disagree. When you only call on them when one of the starters gets injured, you're not being fair to them. They're like a spare tire, only used when the main one goes flat.

Yes, Kova has been playing a lot lately, but make no mistake, he wouldn't have played half as much hadn't Case and Kroos been injured.

As for the possibility of Z resting them, it could be true for Kova, but certainly not for Nacho. The guy hasn't played much and he definitely doesn't need rest.

The pecking order should be about merit, talent and work rate. Whoever is playing well and not being lazy should always get the nod. What bothers me here is that I don't see much justice going on.

Some of our players do really care about the club and thoroughly appreciate the little time they get on the pitch by playing their heart out. It must be killing them to see other players with the work rate of a statue and no contributions whatsoever getting picked ahead of them every single time.

Justice, that's all I'm asking.

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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by rincon on Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:51 pm

This is the spanish dialogue at least according to AS

James se entrenó tras el partido ante el Barça: "Yo le admiro. Se entrena, está a disposición del grupo. Tengo el mismo trato con él que con todos. Hizo lo que otros muchos futbolistas en la Ciudad Deportiva. Esto no cambia nada".

It says (bolded is the context, in quotes are zidane's words).

James trained after the game against Barca. "I admire him. He trains, he is available to the group. I have the same relationship with him as I do with everyone else. He did what many other players do at Ciudad Deportiva. This doesn't change anything."
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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by titosantill on Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:53 pm

@demon, there's some sort of flip flopping there, though i don't think you've done it on purpose- you say its unfair that kova only got a look when we had injuries in the middle of the park and that's not right. but now danilo is getting a look when carvajal is fit, but you don't like that. if zidane had started playing kova with luka kroos and casemiro all fit, i imagine people would have had a problem with that. he gave kovacic a chance when injuries came about, and the guy impressed his coach, fans and teammates alike

that's just how it is in sports. every manager has a set team, when opportunities arise they give other guys a look. when the other guys prove they can hold their own, then it goes from simply being a bench player to now competing for the spot, and thus the coach choosing when, where and how to rotate players

as i said before, i totally understand, how nervous we all get when danilo's name is in that line up, but maybe he's been training hard enough for zidane to feel he warrants a start, there are training sessions that happen in-between games. coaches look at both form and training. if danilo messes up tomorrow, then another person will get the opportunity. as i said before, this is one game, its not like there's a pattern of him snubbing them. when there's a pattern then we can start wondering why
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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:14 pm

titosantill wrote:@demon, there's some sort of flip flopping there, though i don't think you've done it on purpose- you say its unfair that kova only got a look when we had injuries in the middle of the park and that's not right. but now danilo is getting a look when carvajal is fit, but you don't like that. if zidane had started playing kova with luka kroos and casemiro all fit, i imagine people would have had a problem with that. he gave kovacic a chance when injuries came about, and the guy impressed his coach, fans and teammates alike
I don't think there's any flip-flopping here because, and as opposed to Danilo, Kova is talented and worthy of regular paying time. If Danilo was talented enough to rotate with Carvajal, I would voice my discontent at his lack of playing time. But we both know the guy is a walking disaster, and he's not even fit to rotate with a drunk Carvajal. So Z is not really being unfair to him, Dani is simply miles better.

Kova may not be as talented as Modric, but I think he's definitely talented enough to sit on the bench and rotate with his countryman in the second half. So you can imagine my surprise when I found out that he didn't even make the bench. I repeat if he's injured, then it's completely understandable. But if he's not, then something is wrong here.

that's just how it is in sports. every manager has a set team, when opportunities arise they give other guys a look. when the other guys prove they can hold their own, then it goes from simply being a bench player to now competing for the spot, and thus the coach choosing when, where and how to rotate players
I honestly don't think this is how Z sees it. If he did, he wouldn't keep starting Benzema ahead of Morata when both were fit and the Spaniard was playing miles better and scoring way more. What you described here is how a manager should operate, but I'm not so sure Z follows this reasoning.

as i said before, i totally understand, how nervous we all get when danilo's name is in that line up, but maybe he's been training hard enough for zidane to feel he warrants a start, there are training sessions that happen in-between games. coaches look at both form and training. if danilo messes up tomorrow, then another person will get the opportunity. as i said before, this is one game, its not like there's a pattern of him snubbing them. when there's a pattern then we can start wondering why

We're not actually sure that Danilo will start tomorrow. It's his inclusion coupled with the exclusion of Nacho that left some of us wondering. If you're going to include the Brazilian who, granted hasn't played much, but still stunk up the place every time he did, then at least include Nacho who, just like Danilo, hasn't played much but still managed to impress every time he did.


Last edited by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:14 pm

Thanks for your help rincon, much appreciated, mate Smile

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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by titosantill on Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:37 pm

morata was playing better....i don't know about miles better, and after a couple of games he did get his start. i believe in one of those games benzema came off the bench and scored (i'm not talking about our last game in the ucl). anyway my point is, there's no need for us to get up in arms about zidane picking favorites just yet. even kovacic, now we say the kid's got something. at the beginning of the season only 1 or 2 people on here (i can't remember who they are) were calling for the guy to get minutes.

yes, our football hasn't been that convincing, fine, i get that. but if that's the major feud some on here have with the coach, let that be that. let's not add suspicions of favoritism (which in truth most coaches have) or unfairness to the mix. i mean, the other day, there was a slight jab at him for selecting his son, even though it was a game we were leading, had won the first leg convincingly, and a player who we've heard he wasn't a fan of, in odegaard was starting that game.

we can criticize his tactics, but i think his selections have been very fair. many on here have blasted our former coaches (unfairly i might add) for not giving castilla boys a look. zidane has probably done that more than any real madrid coach since maybe queroz/del bosque, to a reasonable degree of success.....

my only issue has been maybe he kept a player longer than he should have in a game e.g. benzema in the clasico, but that's not a big an issue for me to be up in arms about, that happens in the game. whilst i share concerns regarding danilo, the being fair or unfair argument looks like nitpicking

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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by halamadrid2 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:03 am

The team selection looks awfully top heavy. I have a feeling ZZ tried to call up as few defenders and midfielders as he could so that he could call up more attackers. Only Kroos was called up for the midfield as he could play in any of the 3 spots, Pepe/Varane is the back up CB and Danilo is called up because he can play both RB and LB. I get frustrated but I also understand the reasoning behind the call ups. Asensio/James/Morata would all play in the attack and if they played in midfield it's because we don't care about any counters and are focusing more on scoring. With Casemiro in there I am hoping we can shut them out and let our attackers and Isco run riot while he mops up

Thanks for the translation rincon. I am always wary of Marca's translation. That sounded alot more like what ZZ would've said
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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by halamadrid2 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:07 pm

According to Marca James will start the game today. Hopefully he does well. I just want a win though, no matter how. A cameo by Kroos in the 2nd half woule be nice. Miss his deadballs
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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by futbol_bill on Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:32 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:The team selection looks awfully top heavy. I have a feeling ZZ tried to call up as few defenders and midfielders as he could so that he could call up more attackers. Only Kroos was called up for the midfield as he could play in any of the 3 spots, Pepe/Varane is the back up CB and Danilo is called up because he can play both RB and LB. I get frustrated but I also understand the reasoning behind the call ups. Asensio/James/Morata would all play in the attack and if they played in midfield it's because we don't care about any counters and are focusing more on scoring. With Casemiro in there I am hoping we can shut them out and let our attackers and Isco run riot while he mops up

Thanks for the translation rincon. I am always wary of Marca's translation. That sounded alot more like what ZZ would've said


Yes Hala, that's exactly why both Nacho and Coentrao have been left out. I had said months ago that with the squad we have, there will always be some none fringe players left off of game squad due to Zidane using entire roster. These exclusions are only tactical and in no way does it mean anything negative. Normally defensive positions are not used for subs thus the emphasis on attacking options. And how some people interpreted Danilo in squad meant he would start is beyond me.

I expect starting will be

Ronaldo  Benz (sigh) Lucas

James (sigh) Casemiro Modric

Marcelo Ramos Varane Carvajal

I would rather have James start over Lucas than Isco.

edit: just saw a second lineup prediction in Marca (this one in live game column) that has James in place of Lucas while midfield is Casemiro, Modric and Isco.

Bottom line they are saying James is getting start whether it be at Lucas' or Isco's expense. Meanwhile As has Lucas and Isco and no James!!
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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by halamadrid2 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:12 pm

^^ that's the official line up for tonight's game
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Re: Real Madrid vs Borussia Dortmund

Post by halamadrid2 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:36 pm

Nice half. Can he take James off and put Kroos on now. We dont need Dortmund attacking against 6/7 defenders. Some really nice crosses but the wrong CF to play crosses too. Lovely to have Casemiro back. Aside from a few missed tackles he has been immense. Wonderful player
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