UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:16 pm

So now that we are all a bit more calmed down, what did everyone think of the 352?

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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by free_cat on Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:31 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:So now that we are all a bit more calmed down, what did everyone think of the 352?


Works well because moves Messi in a place that he doesn't need to press much and doesn't unbalance our game like when he plays as RW but there's no one there to open the field when we attack or press when we lose the ball.


Last edited by free_cat on Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by Doc on Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:01 pm

@Doc wrote:Yeah, the Liberated Feline is, in my humble view, giving PSG way too much credit. Barcelona beat them when they actually were playing great, pretty sure they'll beat them in February. Well, assuming Iniesta stays injury free that is.

March, they beat them in March you pos.

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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by alexjanosik on Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:52 pm

Since when did Messi start having this much power in his shot? Some of his shots are like bullets now. He didnt have it before. Its something I have observed this season.

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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by Myesyats on Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:08 pm

He always had that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSJiqhtzoos
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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:45 pm

It's definitely more consistently used now.

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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:46 pm

@free_cat wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:So now that we are all a bit more calmed down, what did everyone think of the 352?


Works well because moves Messi in a place that he doesn't need to press much and doesn't unbalance our game like when he plays as RW but there's no one there to open the field when we attack or press when we lose the ball.


My concern is that there is not enough depth for this formation. The drop in quality from MPU to either Busi as a CB or Mathieu is huge, but I agree that it gets the most from us.

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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by Lucifer on Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:28 pm

Nobody mentioned Busquets, I thought he was damn good and reminded of his old self
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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by Myesyats on Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:56 pm

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:It's definitely more consistently used now.

Yeah he uses it more now but it doesnt mean he didnt have it for a long time already
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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by Harmonica on Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:16 pm

It's obvious that Messi's shot power has improved in a year or so, he beats goalies in fk's cleanly in the goalie side. He never shot like this before a year or so.



He adds something in his arsenal every season, and this season it's been shot power.

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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by Lucifer on Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:31 pm

His every fk is potential goal nowadays.
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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by Myesyats on Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:00 pm

@Lucifer wrote:His every fk is potential goal nowadays.

Same goes for Neymar.
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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by messixaviesta on Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:32 pm

@free_cat wrote:
@free_cat wrote:
I'm pretty sure we'll prorgess, not so easily as winning them 0-3 at their home as last time though.


In the end I was right. Though I never believed it possible after the first leg. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

We played well, but we were infinitely lucky yesterday. You need the luck.

I don't think such stories can ever be written without luck. Take Liverpool 2005 as another example and there are so many more.

Having said that for me the biggest and most unfair luck is when two teams meet in a final twice, are equally good as each other on the balance of both matches but both the times the trophy goes to the same team.

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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by messixaviesta on Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:42 pm

@free_cat wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:So now that we are all a bit more calmed down, what did everyone think of the 352?


Works well because moves Messi in a place that he doesn't need to press much and doesn't unbalance our game like when he plays as RW but there's no one there to open the field when we attack or press when we lose the ball.

Two points I would like to add here :-

1. My first thought which I still have not given up is that it can make us defensively vulnerable. If you have fast attackers on both wings it will become so difficult with a three man defense and no full/wing backs. PSG to some extent may have paid the price of trying to play as defensively as a Chelsea 2012, Inter Milan 2010 or Atletico 2014 without having half the tools or preparation needed for it.

2. We miss Dani Alves. There was so much more we could do on the right flank when he was there, even if in an advanced role. Xavi had said in the summer that this would be apparent this season and when has the maestro ever been wrong.


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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by messixaviesta on Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:45 pm

@Lucifer wrote:Nobody mentioned Busquets, I thought he was damn good and reminded of his old self

No question. In fact in the first half I thought he was my man of the match. The whole team played well and it all worked through him.

BTW even though Iniesta did not have a great game and was clearly not fully match fit, he reminded us once again that he has been given a special blessing from the divine. To play a major role in two out of three goals in the first half of such a crucial match without even having played particularly well is really something.

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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by alexjanosik on Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:28 pm

@messixaviesta wrote:
@free_cat wrote:
@BarrileteCosmico wrote:So now that we are all a bit more calmed down, what did everyone think of the 352?


Works well because moves Messi in a place that he doesn't need to press much and doesn't unbalance our game like when he plays as RW but there's no one there to open the field when we attack or press when we lose the ball.

Two points I would like to add here :-

1. My first thought which I still have not given up is that it can make us defensively vulnerable. If you have fast attackers on both wings it will become so difficult with a three man defense and no full/wing backs. PSG to some extent may have paid the price of trying to play as defensively as a Chelsea 2012, Inter Milan 2010 or Atletico 2014 without having half the tools or preparation needed for it.

2. We miss Dani Alves. There was so much more we could do on the right flank when he was there, even if in an advanced role. Xavi had said in the summer that this would be apparent this season and when has the maestro ever been wrong.



Alves has been the biggest miss this season. There is a reason our possession game and building from the back game has gone down the drain this season and its to do with Alves leaving. He brought so much building from the back and with his link up and possession play up the field. Roberto can never hope to match that.
Even leaving that aside, Alves brought intangibles to the table. He is a champion and a supreme competitor. The sort of player who can help turn losses into draws and draws into victories with his never say die attitude. Thankfully yesterday, the entire team displayed such an attitude.

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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by windkick on Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:26 am

How useless are our full backs? I mean as it stands now our best line up doesn't include any of them at all. The 3 man defense actually makes a ton of sense for a few reasons.

1. Messi isn't the most active defender and everyone knows this. Having him on the right is an issue with Sergi doing his best playing defense behind him and also Gomes who starts allot. That's just too much of the right field without good defenders, and it actually forces Messi to play farther back in midfield to help out winning the ball back. That doesn't help, as Messi is the best forward on the planet so having him far away from goal is counter productive. Having him play CAM and it doesn't matter if he doesn't defend, as long as helps hold the ball as an active midfielder who's primary goal is to run forward/distribute the ball forward. It worked wonders vs Celta and it bamboozled PSG's defense and midfield. Plus you end up having Rakatic and Rafinha on the right who are great at fighting for the ball plus you got Busquets behind Messi.

2. Having a midfield triangle of Messi/Iniesta/Rakatic (Rafinha/Sergi), and Buqs and we have the dominance in midfield in numbers and it's pretty balanced as far as creativity and defending is concerned.

3. Masch/Pique/Umtiti are all better defenders than any of our full backs. Removing our use less players and starting our best ones works.

I mean obviously this line up also has some flaws, and we will get punished with it, but as of now it looks pretty damn solid as a go to when we are in trouble but over all it is giving us superiority in midfield which helps reduce attacking chances for the opposing team plus helps Messi be in an awesome position to help the attack. And, it removes all of our players who suck at defending while adding all our players that fight their ass off (even Turan would work great in this set up as well as Sergi back in midfield where he is best). So really the odd ones out are Digne and Alba.

Not sure we are going to continue using it from the start of matches, but if we are in trouble I bet we will switch to it from here on out.

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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by free_cat on Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:59 am

Although Rafinha does well as RM in the 352, he is obviously more suited to play CM. We might look into a new RB/RM for next season.

My bet would be Adama Traore. He could play that role perfectly as he has unlimited speed and stamina and is one of the best driblers in the world at 20 years old. This would force teams to double mark him on the wings leaving space for Messi in the middle, or leave him in a one on one and pay the price of getting dribled and concede a dangerous cross from the byline.

Should we sign Bellerin, he won't be as good even than Rafinha in that position, because he lacks dribling, and being alone in the wings you need dribling or all you can do is pass back/sideways or make difficult crosses/through balls.

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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by Donuts on Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:55 am

@windkick wrote:How useless are our full backs? I mean as it stands now our best line up doesn't include any of them at all. The 3 man defense actually makes a ton of sense for a few reasons. .

We still do not know if 3 defense formation is our permanent one, it might be with lucho but we're getting a new manager soon and might go back to 4 in the back *if anything it's more likely*
3 at the back is still relatively new, alba and digne did well as third centerback on the left.

my only concern with this new formation is the amount of work the wingers have to do, Neymar and Rafinha need to literally play wingback but always be at the attacking end of a throughball.. it'll take a toll on neymar throughout the season, yeah it looked great against PSG because we treated it like a worldcup final but against la liga teams, if we get too comfortable i can see it become a problem.

IF we stick to 3 centerbacks next season alba could very well be a very good neymar substitute and CB, he has a lot of stamina, and can track back all game.. very one dimensional but still adds a lot to attack

we need a world class RW in my opinion, rafinha's right foot against PSG failed him hard.. his only move was to cut inside and cross with his left, too predictable i actually think aleix vidal would benefit so much from this formation, or even pedro. aka a more traditional right footed right winger. (not saying i want pedro but just thinking of a player of his mold)

in the end first we need to sign a new manager, hopefully he gets to choose which formation we play, and our board buys appropriately for that formation.. before that i hope we don't make rash decisions, i personally hope the new manager gets more creative freedom and gets to choose his targets not be signed based on how or if he can play the way the board wants him to... i don't trust our board lol

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Re: UCL R16 - Paris St Germain [Leg 1/2 Discussion]

Post by messixaviesta on Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:23 pm

@alexjanosik wrote:
Alves has been the biggest miss this season. There is a reason our possession game and building from the back game has gone down the drain this season and its to do with Alves leaving. He brought so much building from the back and with his link up and possession play up the field. Roberto can never hope to match that.
Even leaving that aside, Alves brought intangibles to the table. He is a champion and a supreme competitor. The sort of player who can help turn losses into draws and draws into victories with his never say die attitude. Thankfully yesterday, the entire team displayed such an attitude.

Thumbs up

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