The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

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Post by Glory Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:41 am

Even the mighty Mourinho who until now has never used it in his career has started using it for United after taking notes from Don Conte's books.
Hence no way its poverty. Its this new shit thats gonna stay. Proud

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Post by halamadrid2 Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:09 am

Conte has revolutionised football in more ways than Pep ever will. Only a handful of teams followed his tiki taka style and all but Barca have failed at it. Barca are even moving away from it now. The 3 man backline that Conte made famous is the formation 70% of the teams use now

All hail the Conte
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Post by Luca Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:29 pm

Conte wasn't even the first person doing the 3 man backline in Italy, nor was it his first choice at Juventus.

He was actually known for a 4-2-4 formation but our team was composed of 3 great midfielders in Marchisio, Pirlo and Vidal, and 3 great defenders in Barzagli, Chiellini and Bonucci.

Guidolin with Udinese and Mazzarri with Napoli were using the formation prior to conte if I recall correctly.

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Post by Hapless_Hans Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:09 pm

Say no more!

We have a winner.

The en vogue poverty 3 man backline has found its perfect crystallization, never before has the essence of what this thread is about been captured more clearly than in the following formation

Lovren - Matip - Klavan


Can't believe even Klopp succumbs to this completely random fashion.
Is there a team in the PL that has NOT played a 3 man central defense this season?
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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:44 pm

Now even Arsenal are playing a back three of Holding Koscielny Gabriel.

Arsenal.

This thread, notwithstanding its less than eloquent opening post as well as the following troll posts with impunity killing its momentum right after inception, is meant as a serious basis for discussion and observation.

I wanted to pose a serious question, and it's even more virulent now that for no apparent reason this season virtually ALL PL team, as well as a number of Bundesliga teams, have employed 3 man backlines.

The question is..

Is there an actual tactically-informed, meaningful change in footballl formation employment happening?

Or is it simply a matter of fashion and trends?

I honestly think its the latter.

I can see no tactic-related reason why all of a sudden, within one season, the three man defense springs into being the exclusive answer to tactical problems arrising.
I see no convincing, determining footballing reason why all those teams change to 3 man backlines when they never did that before, faced with surely similar problems.

We need to take the massive impact of (random, not-determined, coincidental) trends and fashions onto history seriously.
I don't think historiographical theory has come to really understand this, let alone implement this understanding in our writing of history, yet.

And in the absence of that, simple etiological narratives will prevail like "Mazzarri started it", "Conte brought it to the PL".


Last edited by Hapless_Hans on Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by urbaNRoots Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:56 pm

I think it started as a trend, some teams just followed what was working for other teams but has now become a tactical necessity to counter all the other teams who have made these changes.

In Arsenal's case, Wenger just had to change something because results have been crap with a 4231 and 433. Maybe it's the same for other teams.
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Post by Jay29 Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:04 pm

Matching the opposition formation has been the go-to tactic for countering teams since forever. That's not a new thing.

The 3-man backline had gone completely out of fashion in England. Conte comes along and uses it to great success and all of a sudden the rest of the league has a problem they're not used to dealing with. Hence more teams use it as a way of dealing with that threat.

So it's a mixture of both tactical reasons and it being en vogue. Chelsea and Spurs have clearly benefited from using it, as it's allowed them to create powerful bases and use their best players in central positions, while also covering a weakness at full-back. For example, Walker and Rose are average defenders but look far better as wing-backs.

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:07 pm

Conte brought it back with his success at Juve but yeah in modern times the 3-whatever suits you came from Udinese or Napoli.

It is strange how it's become the go to 'let's have a punt at it' formation all of a sudden in the PL though. To not be a waste of time you need 3 CBs actually worth playing at the same time (Hint, most clubs don't have this) and wing backs who can do one hella job.
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Post by Thimmy Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:27 am

RealGunner wrote:
Spoiler:


Reminded me of this
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:36 am

rofl
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Post by McAgger Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:43 am

rofl
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:44 am

Agree tbh, a corridor that's the dream ffs.

Edit: Dead at Newspaper in a septic tank rofl

Edit 2: Luxury !

rofl Anyone who doesn't like Monty Python can kick rocks imo.
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Post by Tomwin Lannister Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:49 am

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Agree tbh, a corridor that's the dream ffs.

Edit: Dead at Newspaper in a septic tank rofl

Edit 2: Luxury !

rofl Anyone who doesn't like Monty Python can kick rocks imo.


Back in my day that's all we had for a football,  the surface was made up of broken glass and used needles and we'd play 8 hour halves in -20 I tell ya.
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Post by McAgger Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:50 am

Luxury and corridor part killed me rofl

Probably the funniest sketch I have ever seen in my life.

I've seen an older black and white original version of the sketch. Was even better.

Edit:
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:54 am

That's the dream, we played underwater against Piranhas with scissors instead of footballs.

Bunch of primmadonna registas the lot of them.
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Post by McAgger Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:04 am

Underwater? Luxury. We had to play underground in mines while hydrogen bombs were being dropped overhead on the surface. We only had shrapnel fragments to use as footballs.
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Post by rincon Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:57 am

It will pass soon and then it will be found on the teams that actually need it when it stops being a fad. At least that's what happened in Italy. Most teams tried it a some point in recent years (and still try it) but it only stuck around in the teams that made sense.

Things like these should only be done if it makes sense for the squad. Its true for any system changes. Conte had 3 midfielders he couldn't bench (Marchisio, Pirlo and Vidal) so we switched from 4-4-2 to 4-3-3. Then he realized Bonucci, Barzagli and Chiellini were beasting so he wanted the mid 3 and the back 3 playing. So we switched to 3-5-2.

I doesn't have to make sense for all teams. Now we are moving away from it. Only Atalanta and Fiorentina play a back 3 as their main system at this point in the top 10.

Probably the same will happen in the PL.
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun May 28, 2017 7:45 pm

Would Arsenal have won a trophy without it? I don't think so
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Post by RealGunner Sun May 28, 2017 11:17 pm

Probably not.

Wish we changed to back 3 a lot earlier.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:50 pm

another one down, 4 goals for supposedly the best defense ever
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun May 30, 2021 12:32 am

The poverty 3 man back line is trending hard in Europe again. It’s a nightmare to play against and a good formation to grind out results, which is actually effective in CL

Won la liga with Atletico
Won the Série A with Inter
Won the CL with Chelsea

Will we see a strong poverty 3 man back line make a strong run in the euros? I think so
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Post by BarcaLearning Sun May 30, 2021 1:21 am

Only suitable for some teams and with the right players. Its quite sad to see the likes of Barca and Real also adapting to the trend lately lol... as shown its just not good result unless u have the right mix like Chelsea, but even though they won the CL I dont think its perfect. They still lack up front since its quite focused more on the defensive I feel?
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Post by Casciavit Sun May 30, 2021 1:33 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:The poverty 3 man back line is trending hard in Europe again. It’s a nightmare to play against and a good formation to grind out results, which is actually effective in CL

Won la liga with Atletico
Won the Série A with Inter
Won the CL with Chelsea

Will we see a strong poverty 3 man back line make a strong run in the euros? I think so


A fair bit of teams used it in the 2018 WC. Not sure how many top teams will use it at the Euros. I'm under the impression they have all been playing 4-3-3's in the lead up aside from Belgium (not sure).
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Post by Robespierre Sun May 30, 2021 2:03 pm

Atletico Madrid too ? Havevn't they played 4-4-2 ? I didn't know it

Anyway it's incredible effective if you've proper players, well Inter 've made even 91 points with it. What you were Antonio Conte...

I don't know if Chelsea is the first team to win CL throught 3 men backline probably Ajax under Van Gaal too
Anyway, It's been a long time
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Post by farfan Sun May 30, 2021 2:12 pm

Pep also lost to a poverty 3-man backline against us last year.

This is slowly becoming his kryptonite.
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Post by Onyx Sun May 30, 2021 2:51 pm

It's a 5 man backline because there's 5 defenders imo.

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