The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by Glory on Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:41 am

Even the mighty Mourinho who until now has never used it in his career has started using it for United after taking notes from Don Conte's books.
Hence no way its poverty. Its this new shit thats gonna stay. Proud

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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by halamadrid2 on Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:09 am

Conte has revolutionised football in more ways than Pep ever will. Only a handful of teams followed his tiki taka style and all but Barca have failed at it. Barca are even moving away from it now. The 3 man backline that Conte made famous is the formation 70% of the teams use now

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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by Luca on Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:29 pm

Conte wasn't even the first person doing the 3 man backline in Italy, nor was it his first choice at Juventus.

He was actually known for a 4-2-4 formation but our team was composed of 3 great midfielders in Marchisio, Pirlo and Vidal, and 3 great defenders in Barzagli, Chiellini and Bonucci.

Guidolin with Udinese and Mazzarri with Napoli were using the formation prior to conte if I recall correctly.
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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:09 pm

Say no more!

We have a winner.

The en vogue poverty 3 man backline has found its perfect crystallization, never before has the essence of what this thread is about been captured more clearly than in the following formation

Lovren - Matip - Klavan


Can't believe even Klopp succumbs to this completely random fashion.
Is there a team in the PL that has NOT played a 3 man central defense this season?

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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:44 pm

Now even Arsenal are playing a back three of Holding Koscielny Gabriel.

Arsenal.

This thread, notwithstanding its less than eloquent opening post as well as the following troll posts with impunity killing its momentum right after inception, is meant as a serious basis for discussion and observation.

I wanted to pose a serious question, and it's even more virulent now that for no apparent reason this season virtually ALL PL team, as well as a number of Bundesliga teams, have employed 3 man backlines.

The question is..

Is there an actual tactically-informed, meaningful change in footballl formation employment happening?

Or is it simply a matter of fashion and trends?

I honestly think its the latter.

I can see no tactic-related reason why all of a sudden, within one season, the three man defense springs into being the exclusive answer to tactical problems arrising.
I see no convincing, determining footballing reason why all those teams change to 3 man backlines when they never did that before, faced with surely similar problems.

We need to take the massive impact of (random, not-determined, coincidental) trends and fashions onto history seriously.
I don't think historiographical theory has come to really understand this, let alone implement this understanding in our writing of history, yet.

And in the absence of that, simple etiological narratives will prevail like "Mazzarri started it", "Conte brought it to the PL".


Last edited by Hapless_Hans on Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by urbaNRoots on Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:56 pm

I think it started as a trend, some teams just followed what was working for other teams but has now become a tactical necessity to counter all the other teams who have made these changes.

In Arsenal's case, Wenger just had to change something because results have been crap with a 4231 and 433. Maybe it's the same for other teams.

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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by Jay29 on Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:04 pm

Matching the opposition formation has been the go-to tactic for countering teams since forever. That's not a new thing.

The 3-man backline had gone completely out of fashion in England. Conte comes along and uses it to great success and all of a sudden the rest of the league has a problem they're not used to dealing with. Hence more teams use it as a way of dealing with that threat.

So it's a mixture of both tactical reasons and it being en vogue. Chelsea and Spurs have clearly benefited from using it, as it's allowed them to create powerful bases and use their best players in central positions, while also covering a weakness at full-back. For example, Walker and Rose are average defenders but look far better as wing-backs.
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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:07 pm

Conte brought it back with his success at Juve but yeah in modern times the 3-whatever suits you came from Udinese or Napoli.

It is strange how it's become the go to 'let's have a punt at it' formation all of a sudden in the PL though. To not be a waste of time you need 3 CBs actually worth playing at the same time (Hint, most clubs don't have this) and wing backs who can do one hella job.

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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by Thimmy on Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:27 am

@RealGunner wrote:
Spoiler:
tell you Hans, back in my day, we had it so rough... or so much better, i can't tell anymore. anyway, every day, we would wake up at 2 in the morning and go to the table for breakfast. we all lived in a closet, you see, so it was one room. and we would ask, me and my 64 brothers and 27 sisters, "what's for breakfast mum?". she would smack us all with a shoe and say "cold beans". and if we complained and said "but we had cold beans yesterday" - because we had cold beans every day - she would smack us all five times with a shoe and say "tough its all we can afford. i'm trying to feed a family of 93 with just half a silver buckington", a silver buckington was about the same as half a penny back in the day. then we would head to school. we met up with the johnson kids from down the road, and walked the 1674 miles to school. on the way to school, we had to walk up a mountain so tall it extended to outer space. when we got to the top of the mountain, we would see the peterson boys on their fancy bikes - which they dont make like they used to, and we would race them down the mountain. then, when we got to school at 4 in the morning, the headmaster would come up to us and say "you bloody kids are late", then he would smack us all with the cane 10 times and tell us we had 7 years of detention. then, we went to class, and mr stevenson would say "ok line up kids", then he would spank us each 60 times, then hit us each with the cane 40 times each. then it was 7 at night and we had to walk home. then, when we got home, we'd ask "whats for dinner mum?", and she'd smack us each 50 times with a pan and say "rotten cabage". and if we complained, she would smack us each 100 times with a broom and say "im trying to feed a family of 154 on just one islet sliver, just you wait until your dad gets home" - now an islet silver was worth about as much as a grain of sand. then, when our dad got home from his job at the soot factory, he would hit us all 180 times with his belt. if we had been naughty, we would hit us all another 600 times. then, at 1:58, mum would say "ok time for bed". then, we got into our potato sacks, and she would hit us each with a shoe 8 times before we went to sleep. on saturdays, we went down to uncle bob's farm to work. we would have to walk 345 miles to the bus stop, then catch the route 4 bus for 56 stops. we would get on the bus and pay our fare of 3 teddy roses - now a teddy rose is worth about the same as a flake of skin. then, if the ticket inspector came to us, he would hit us all 4 times with his baton. if any of us had lost our ticket, we would hit us all 10 times again and throw us off the bus and we had to walk the rest of the way. when we got to the farm, uncle bob would drive to the gate in his tractor, hit us all 780 times with his crowbar, and tell us to get in his trailer so he could drive us to the farm house. then, we had to plow the fields with a toothbrush in the blazing summer heat - now, they dont make summers like they used to, so it was about 1345.4 degrees spencer, or 67 degrees centigrade using your new-fangled metric system. then, we would have to milk the cows - now, they dont make cows like they used to, so each cow weighed about 459 hog's heads, or 3.2 tonnes in your new-fangled metric system. if you touched a cows udder, it would kick you and you would die, so you had to be really careful when you milked the cows. then, when we were done, uncle bob would say "ok kids time for your pocket money". he would give us each 9 copper jemimahs - which are worth about one political promise each - and beat us each 6 times with his tractor before we left. on sundays, we would meet the johnson boys and go down to the river - now, they don't make rivers like they used to, so this river was about as wide as the whole of america, and as deep as the marianas trench, and it was filled with liquid tungsten. we would play by the old oak tree near the river, climbing on it and building tree houses and such. now - they don't make trees like they used to, so this tree had a trunk as thick as a city, and was tall enough that the branches on the top could scrape the moon. one day, little jimmy fell from the top of the tree. when he hit the ground, the only bit of his body we could recognise was his left eyeball. we picked up all his bits and rushed him to the doctors surgery. dr james said "oh its just a scratch little jimmy dont worry pop a plaster on it and you'll be right" and he gave little jimmy a plaster and a lollipop and he was ok. after we finished playing by the river, we would go into town and get some candy. now, back in the day, you could give the shopkeeper one bronze winglet - which is worth about as much as a ciggarette butt - and he would give you the entire stock of the store. so we would go and get our candy, and we'd go into the town square and eat it. now, we didn't have any of your fancy food laws back in the day, so there was all kinds of stuff in our candy. bleach, lsd, ecstasy, you name it. so we would always get a little hyper after our candy. one day, when we were hyper, we went up the mr boris's car, the only car in the town, and touched it. as we touched it, we saw dad storming down the street holding his belt. "you kids, having fun while i work all day in the soot factory just so you can have grilled water for tea every night, i oughta smack you all". we were sure he was going to smack us, but then he said "no, i got a better idea, ill take you to see mr henderson, he'll set ya right". now, dad had told us about mr henderson. mr henderson was a veteran from the great war, where he got a really bad injury, but we never knew what it was. dad walked us all down to the pub, and we saw a left testicle propped up on a pegleg. "mr henderson," said dad, "i have some kids here who need a good whooping". then, mr henderson picked up the entire pub, and hit us each 4006 times with it. then, dad said "right, i gotta go back to the soot factory, you kids run on home now". now, by now it was 1pm, which meant it was curfew. while we were walking out of the town square, we heard a man shout "oi you bloody kids, its curfew". we turned around and saw the constable holding his baton. he hit us each 160265 times with his baton, then put us in gaol for 60123865 years. now - they don't make gaols like they used to - this one had 5 mile thick steel walls, and a single hole in the top let in some light. we were in there for about 13526 years, until mum baked the constable some cardboard pie so he would let us out. then, she hit us all 1292 times with a washboard, and grounded us for the rest of our lives. so don't you come complaining to me about nonsense like not playing in dirt or broken glass, pathetic.


Reminded me of this

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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:36 am

rofl

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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by Don't call me James on Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:43 am

rofl

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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:44 am

Agree tbh, a corridor that's the dream ffs.

Edit: Dead at Newspaper in a septic tank rofl

Edit 2: Luxury !

rofl Anyone who doesn't like Monty Python can kick rocks imo.

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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:49 am

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Agree tbh, a corridor that's the dream ffs.

Edit: Dead at Newspaper in a septic tank rofl

Edit 2: Luxury !

rofl Anyone who doesn't like Monty Python can kick rocks imo.


Back in my day that's all we had for a football,  the surface was made up of broken glass and used needles and we'd play 8 hour halves in -20 I tell ya.

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Luke Harper wrote:We are the ones... the ones that you've been told about. And WE... are walking upright.

Studying about those good ol' days and who shall wear, the starry crown gooood lawd. Show me the waaaaay.

Unbeaten 2011/2012.


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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by Don't call me James on Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:50 am

Luxury and corridor part killed me rofl

Probably the funniest sketch I have ever seen in my life.

I've seen an older black and white original version of the sketch. Was even better.

Edit:

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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:54 am

That's the dream, we played underwater against Piranhas with scissors instead of footballs.

Bunch of primmadonna registas the lot of them.

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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by Don't call me James on Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:04 am

Underwater? Luxury. We had to play underground in mines while hydrogen bombs were being dropped overhead on the surface. We only had shrapnel fragments to use as footballs.

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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by rincon on Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:57 am

It will pass soon and then it will be found on the teams that actually need it when it stops being a fad. At least that's what happened in Italy. Most teams tried it a some point in recent years (and still try it) but it only stuck around in the teams that made sense.

Things like these should only be done if it makes sense for the squad. Its true for any system changes. Conte had 3 midfielders he couldn't bench (Marchisio, Pirlo and Vidal) so we switched from 4-4-2 to 4-3-3. Then he realized Bonucci, Barzagli and Chiellini were beasting so he wanted the mid 3 and the back 3 playing. So we switched to 3-5-2.

I doesn't have to make sense for all teams. Now we are moving away from it. Only Atalanta and Fiorentina play a back 3 as their main system at this point in the top 10.

Probably the same will happen in the PL.
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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sun May 28, 2017 7:45 pm

Would Arsenal have won a trophy without it? I don't think so

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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by RealGunner on Sun May 28, 2017 11:17 pm

Probably not.

Wish we changed to back 3 a lot earlier.
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Re: The En Vogue Poverty 3 man backline

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:50 pm

another one down, 4 goals for supposedly the best defense ever

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