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Post by salmano9 Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:55 pm

40m is too much for him.

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Post by rincon Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:10 pm

40m is good price. If that really is enough to get him then no doubt i would do it. Arent we supposed to pay around 40 for Tolisso? plus we paid 32m for Pjanic and 30m for Pjaca. Its what good players cost and Bernardeschi sure looks much, much, better than these 2 did at his age.
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Post by salmano9 Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:24 pm

rincon wrote:40m is good price. If that really is enough to get him then no doubt i would do it. Arent we supposed to pay around 40 for Tolisso? plus we paid 32m for Pjanic and 30m for Pjaca. Its what good players cost and Bernardeschi sure looks much, much, better than these 2 did at his age.

We payed 23m for Pjaca, which is about right considering his age and he was one of the best players in Zagreb. I think it makes more sense to spend 50m on Sanchez than 40m on Bernardeschi. Also, as the report said, I don't think that Viola will settle with 40m. They are hard nut to crack in negotiations like we saw with Jovetic and Cuadrado previously.

If we could get 25m for Berardi, why overpay to get Bernardeschi?
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Post by rincon Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:52 pm

Bernardeschi right now fits us much better than Berardi does.

Also being one of the best players in Zagreb is nowhere near the same thing in being the best player in Fiorentina and one of the best in Serie A. I dont think 40m will be enough for us to get him, but ifits 40, then there is no reason not to get him. Cheap price to pay for someone like him.

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Post by Luca Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:01 pm

I don't think 40M is overpay for Bernardeschi at all. We paid 42M for Dybala who proved much less at an even smaller team with Palermo and no one really thought twice.

And while Dybala's talent is clear, you can't tell me that at the time the valuation was as certain as it is today.

I don't think Fiorentina sells to us anyways but if they did it would be a very smart signing in my opinion. We keep making these signings that continue to set us up for success.

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Post by Tomwin Lannister Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:25 pm

40M i'd do


Not a penny more tbh, Sanchez is certainly available and affordable if we want him badly enough. He could take us up a level.
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Post by salmano9 Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:18 pm

At the moment, bringing Bernardeschi won't raise the level of the squad, unlinke Sanchez. I don't rate our youth players in Serie A highly.
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Post by rincon Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:36 pm

That's a ridiculous position when the player you want to sign (Sanchez) is a Serie A youth product, as is our star man (Dybala).
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Post by Luca Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:27 pm

I don't understand this anti Serie A regime when our squad has primarily been built from within Serie A. Who says it's Sanchez or Bernardeschi?

Now y'all are just being silly.

I'm personally indifferent to signing Bernardeschi or not signing him but the reasons listed for not signing him are quite absurd as it stands.

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Post by rincon Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:57 pm

I actually want Sanchez, didn't mention him in a negative way. Love that player.
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Post by salmano9 Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:23 am

Luca wrote:I don't understand this anti Serie A regime when our squad has primarily been built from within Serie A. Who says it's Sanchez or Bernardeschi?

Now y'all are just being silly.

I'm personally indifferent to signing Bernardeschi or not signing him but the reasons listed for not signing him are quite absurd as it stands.
I just don't have faith in this new genration of Italian players and I don't rate them high. Look at how Immobile ended up being after leaving Serie A. I said that too about Belotti earlier... Even if Belotti scores 30+ goals a season, I wil still have an eyebrow raised on him. I'd get Berna for 30m max because he did not prove anything yet. It is just a personal opinion based on what we see from recent history. Unless Berna will improve us a lot, we shouldn't pay more than 30m for him because we already have cuadrado playing in his position and cuadrado imo is better.
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Post by rincon Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:29 am

Bernardeschi is a LW/SS

His spot is Mandzukic's, not Cuadrado.

He is also definitely a better player than Cuadrado (who is also a Serie A youth product), the only thing Juan is better at is his crazy dribbling. Bernardeschi is much more complete.
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Post by Luca Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:21 am

salmano9 wrote:
Luca wrote:I don't understand this anti Serie A regime when our squad has primarily been built from within Serie A. Who says it's Sanchez or Bernardeschi?

Now y'all are just being silly.

I'm personally indifferent to signing Bernardeschi or not signing him but the reasons listed for not signing him are quite absurd as it stands.
I just don't have faith in this new genration of Italian players and I don't rate them high. Look at how Immobile ended up being after leaving Serie A. I said that too about Belotti earlier... Even if Belotti scores 30+ goals a season, I wil still have an eyebrow raised on him. I'd get Berna for 30m max because he did not prove anything yet. It is just a personal opinion based on what we see from recent history. Unless Berna will improve us a lot, we shouldn't pay more than 30m for him because we already have cuadrado playing in his position and cuadrado imo is better.


This generation also includes Caldara, who we just signed, Rugani, who has been great, Gagliardini, who has been great at Inter, Belotti, who has surpassed Immobile's best season already, Donnarumma, who is a legitimate phenom, Berardi, who is super talented and Bernardeschi who is highly coveted for a reason.

This 'generation' of Italian players is amazing. For some reason, and based on Immobile's failed moves to both Dortmund and Sevilla, which mean exactly nothing to me as it should to you on the impact of signing Italian players to a team that has been built on signing Italian players, is just silly my man.

First of all, we always look first to Serie A before to other leagues. Our league is not easy to perform in, the players usually come at a better cost and we have a greater chance at completing these signings because the players are already in Italy, and have seen first hand how our club operates on the field.

Second, you do realize the basis for your argument is not being convinced by players like Belotti and Immobile, which is all fine and good because that's your opinion but it doesn't hold much weight when discussing Bernardeschi and a potential move to Juventus. One exception does not prove the rule or vice versa.

To me, this is a case of thinking foreign automatically equals good and Italian equals average. I do believe this is a poor way of thinking because instead we have to evaluate each player on a case by case basis. For example, Lemina, dreadfully average player with the level of quality we could find at just about any Serie A club in Italian form, not a great foreign signing. Khedira, free signing off of Real Madrid, amazing foreign signing. We can take every player on our current squad and consider them the same way, what you'll find is most of them are Serie A products, came from a Serie A team, are Italian, or have had Serie A experience prior to Juventus.


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Post by juvealbanian Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:44 am

We are on a run to win ChL these two years.As after that, lots of our players would be more than 33-34 year old such as Chiellini,Marchisio,Gigi,l etc.
So,if we really want to close this winning cycle with a european trophy we should probably buy some already top player.
There is no point to discuss that Sanchez is miles better than Bernardeschi.He simply is.
It all depends how our management approaches to this cycle ending.
We could throw money on a guaranteed player like we did with Higuain or invest about the future like we have done with Caldara for example.
I don't see Berna as a top player yet,he can still improve but I think he's a risky bet so I prefer Sanchez instead,who thanks to his workrate will bring a good level of football.for atleast 3-4 seasons imo.
If Marotta & Paratici see in Berna that ready to explode potential they saw in Dybala then im ok for it but like I said ,I don't think he can get a lot better than he is.
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Post by rincon Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:44 am

In the spirit of debate, who of the new generation of Italian has flopped so badly?

The worst generation of Italian players was roughly Marchisio's generation. From Chiellini (84) to Immobile (90) things were bad with a few good ones. Those were the ones caught between the fantastic generation of the late 70's and early 80's (Buffon, Pirlo and co. all the way to De Rossi, the world cup winners) and the 90's generation who are looking head and shoulders better.

Now Juve, as we all know, has always capitalized in Serie A and Italian talent and even in a bad time, we have Chiellini, Marchisio and Bonucci. The best ones.

The 90's kids include (among others):

Verratti (PSG, star)
Donnarumma (Milan, star)
Insigne (Napoli, star)
Rugani (Juve)
Romagnoli (Milan)
Gagliardini (Inter)
Balotti (Torino)
Berardi (Sassuolo)
Bernardeschi (Fiorentina)
Caldara (Atalanta/Juve)
El Shaarawy (Roma)
Chiesa (Fiorentina)

Right off the bat you have maybe the biggest midfield, GK and CB talents in the world in Verratti, Donna and Rugani. The rest are excellent in their roles as well.

Writing someone off based on nationality gets us nowhere.

Dybala was developed at Palermo. Sanchez at Udinese. Cavani at Palermo. Cuadrado at Udinese. Ibra, Coutinho, Kovacic, etc, etc.

Its the same academies and clubs that trained Verratti or Buffon, the later 2 being of a certain nationality doesn't make them worse.
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Post by salmano9 Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:31 pm

You mentioned these players, but we have to wait for them too. Insigne hasn't done anything yet and there is a reason as to why he isn't being regular NT player with a starting spot. SES has proved nothing too. He is great but he had/has lots of injuries which let him down too. Players like Insigne and SES are not effective for their clubs like our strikers. We have 0 Italian strikers in our team too. We have to wait for Belotti to judge him correctly imo.

All of the players you mentioned have lots of potential, but they must be judged in 2-4 years time, because at the moment they have done nothing.

Something which pisses me off is seeing Eder in the Italian team... Why the hell is he there? He doesn't do anything with Inter and Ventura needs to get someone else instead.

It is not that that I am not convinced that these players are not good. It is that due to players like Immobile, I think that only time will tell how good these players are.

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Post by rincon Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:08 pm

How has Insigne not done anything yet? what is a player to do? he has had a fantastic career at Napoli. The only reason he hasn't been a starter for the NT is because Italy hasn't played with wingers in a long time. Now its finally changing, and there he is. He even made it to Conte's squad even though he played a 3-5-2 with no place for Insigne.

You only bring up Immobile, who only actually flopped at Sevilla, who else? what are the standards. What about someone like Krychowiak then? who flopped the moment he left Sevilla even playing under his old coach. Or Vietto who is useless to Atletico since moving there. Etc.

There are 100 flops from every league. Which league do you rate the talent from because the french, dutch, german, spanish and english league have all at least just as many flops to mention. Let alone south american leagues who pump a 1000 average players out.

This doesn't make any sense. 90% of our team is signed from Serie A, now and in our whole history. Higuain was signed because of what he did at Napoli, his 30 goals are not better than someone else's hypothetical 30 goals in the league. Neither are Dybala's short exploits at Palermo's better than Belotti's, Pastore's or Cavani's before them at the same club. Same for players like Cuadrado, Jovetic and now Bernardeschi from Fiorentina.
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Post by Luca Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:05 am

I think the issue is thinking of Bernardeschi like a Simone Pepe, Padoin or Zaza type player but the thing is, he is a super talented player and that, and only that, is the reason we are even rumoured to be interested. The only real question is whether or not you believe in his talent, I most certainly do believe he is already a great player who could be great for Juve one day.

As for us wanting to win the CL within these two years, it is our ambition to compete for every trophy, every year and to do that, you need a big, talented squad, with a mix of young and experienced players. We've been great at making these signings and consistently improving our team season by season. You can't tell me that a signing like Pjaca was made for today but rather it was a signing for tomorrow.

But in terms of the talent in Serie A, it is looking very promising. I expect us to continue to look inwards and outwards for talent, like we've always done.

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Post by rincon Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:39 pm

Some fapping material, if not for the potential transfer, its good to watch for the football.



Such a talented player that's also tall, fast and versatile. Love watching him play. Will hate it if he goes to Inter.

Having him Icardi, Mario and Gagliardini will make them too dangerous.
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Post by Luca Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:06 pm

I think I'd hate it more if he goes to Chelsea. I think Conte would do great things with him but there is a bigger risk to his development when you switch leagues, in my opinion.

I miss the days when the top Italian players played in Italy always.

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Post by rincon Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:45 pm

Spinazzola

Football Italia:

I think we will recall him from his loan, specially if Asamoah leaves. He would be useful as a sub left back and left wing.
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Post by salmano9 Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:42 pm

Yeah you guys are right, and you have a point. It is only a matter of whether you believe in the players or not.
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Post by Warrior Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:35 am

Asamoah's contract expires in summer 2018, he is respected by the managers and will remain our 2nd choice LB next year if he wants to. Anyways i find him more reliable than Spinazzola, logically the latter shall be on the loan list once again next year.

That being said, Inter are the most serious contenders next year if they do the right transfers. I expect Berardi to end up there, Manolas and Darmian as well. We must enter the race for Bernardeschi right now, Fiorentina is dead wood and the player will develop faster in a top club. Inter won't buy both "Ber's" and 40M for Bernardeschi seems like a good gamble. Something realistic.
Within two years most of our starters will be past their prime (Marchisio, Chiellini, Khedira, Licht, Buffon, Barzagli). Hopefully Juve is willing to invest for replacements who are worth it like Bernardeschi, Gigio and Tolisso.

Marotta and his crew has proven in the past that they have the balls to make a solid offer when they want a particular player. Let's be confident about next summer.
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Post by salmano9 Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:13 pm

You guys are starting to convince me more and more about Berna Laughing
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Post by rincon Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:18 pm

cheers
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Post by DeviAngel Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:01 am

Spinazzola is LW not LWB but he is doing GREAT this season far better than Asa will ever do.

Pol Lirola will be one great RB for us.
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