Match Day Thread

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by alexjanosik on Sun 7 Oct - 12:45

@windkick wrote:Genius by EV to wait until the 84th min to make a sub. Great way to build the confidence to the bench players, great time to make changes and genius strategist

I seriously want him his bland ass to go


Its easy to blame him. How do you suggest we fix the bland way of playing? We saw the same bland football under multiple coaches now. Tito, Tata, Enrique, Valverde.
Do I think Valverde is Pep?
No, but we have to realise that the problem is we cant play a fluid, functional 4-3-3 with Messi.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sun 7 Oct - 12:47

@alexjanosik wrote:Once more, the over dependence on Messi comes back to cost us a point. Started off with a 4-3-3. Valencia transitioned quickly from the left to the right. Rakitic couldnt get across in time and it led to a corner from which they scored.
We cant play 4-3-3 with Messi. Credit to Valverde who quickly went to 4-4-2. But the attack is so focussed on feeding Messi. How many times did Alba miss passing to players who were in a better position, instead trying to pass to Messi. I counted 3 times when he could have passed to Suarez or Coutinho/Dembele and isntead tried to find Messi.
It is counter productive. the same ridiculous insistenece on setting up Messi has truned Suarez, one of the all time great and lethal strikers in to an assist man. He is joint top for assists with Messi over the past 4 years but has lost a lot of lethality in the process. And I dont blame him. How many times does he make a run only for idiots like Alba(who should never wear the Barca shirt) ignore him?
We are not winning Europe if the insistence on playing through Messi continues. Doesnt matter who we have. Going out in the quarters again. Quote me on it.


Watching Barca under Valverde often feels like watching Argentina play in this aspect

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by alexjanosik on Sun 7 Oct - 12:56

BC, surely you realise that Messi has to assume part of the blame. We have wonderful and skilled players like Suarez, Coutinho, Dembele, Rakitic etc. That is a great support lineup of atacking talent. Better than what Pep has at City. And yet we run everything through Messi and play bland football.
Its because the player demands that we play through him. Its been that way for over 5 years now. I dont think the coach is solely to blame.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sun 7 Oct - 13:16

It's difficult to apportion blame without knowing what happens behind the scenes. Messi shoulders some blame, agreed, but so do start-struck teammates and coaches. And all the players you mentioned (aside from Coutinho, who has not been here very long) have gone through long patches where they were not very effective, I think it's ingrained into this team to always look for their talisman, the only one who has been consistent for seemingly years.

Hopefully one of these days we get a behind the scenes documentary like the one for City.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by Kebab on Sun 7 Oct - 14:03

Actually until this match tactic was "dont look for messi, play yourself". I can quote myself about it.i said it about 2 weeks ago. But it didnt work and team lost points. they try different tactics to see which one works the best. I'm sure behind scenes Messi wants CL title and looks for the best tactic to get it. Suddenly dembele sitting on the bench is a proof that they are trying to find what works the best. he himself lost weight and started running, you cant sit and blame him all the time when team plays bad

In this match Valencia played great, 0 clear chance for barcelona whole 90 minutes. and only goal came from messi moment and it was not a clear chance.

Alba passing messi because he makes a pass from left side and messi is left footed, with left foot he has better chance to score. also suarez is marked all the time in the box. messi makes a surprise run from behind, this works almost 80% of the time it ends up with a shot. Also i didnt see any player in better position in this game. i dont know how you make up a fake story every time and blame the best player in the team. its a worse habit than smoking cigarettes
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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by Kebab on Sun 7 Oct - 14:16

There was no chances but first 45 minutes was amazing to watch. They tried hard. second half they were exhausted. it was two big matches in a week and they choose CL match as the most important one. I feel like they dont care about la liga this season and focus is on CL. This is why i will judge them after CL games this season
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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by alexjanosik on Sun 7 Oct - 16:08

@BarrileteCosmico wrote:It's difficult to apportion blame without knowing what happens behind the scenes. Messi shoulders some blame, agreed, but so do start-struck teammates and coaches. And all the players you mentioned (aside from Coutinho, who has not been here very long) have gone through long patches where they were not very effective, I think it's ingrained into this team to always look for their talisman, the only one who has been consistent for seemingly years.

Hopefully one of these days we get a behind the scenes documentary like the one for City.


I think we can all agree that we play one dimensional and bland football. Thats because we always play through our talisman.
If you say that star struck teammates and coaches have to step up, then we also need to think how they can do that.

Lets say we get Pep as a coach and go back to a 4-3-3. How would you say we play attractive and good football under Pep with the current personnel.
In the 4-3-3, we would have Messi right, Suarez central and Dembele/Coutinho on the left. Unlesss Messi drastically alters his game, I struggle to see how our play would be different. Messi would still insist on always coming to the center. He would still demnad the ball in the 10 area. He would still be looking for that Alba run. Meanwhile, our right flank would be isolated and as useless offensively as it is today. Take for example today's game. Semedo made plenty of runs forward only to find nobody helping out on that side. He would be confronted by 2-3 players in front of him. Messi was in the 10 zone. The only option he had was passing back or inside. I struggle to see how our right flank being useless has anything to do with start struck players or coaches. The isssue is Messi wants to play 10 and wont do anything offensively from the right. Nothing would change under Pep. So attcaks down the right flank would be non existent like they are now.
Lets talk of how our attacks down the center and left would change under Pep. Would he get us moving the ball a little faster, maybe? But would that alter our way of attacks? I dont see how. Messi would still demand the ball in the 10 zone, which is a position that does not exist in the Cruyffian 4-3-3. With Suarewz shackled by 2,3 defenders, the only viable plays are 2:
One-two's around the box or Alba overlapping, which is what we have been doing for the past 5 years.
So my question is: How would we suddenly play good football even under Pep with Messi playing the way he is now? Different personnel wont solve the issue.

Now if you say we play 4-4-2, that still doesnt make us play better. The attacking would still predominantly come from the left. To have a viable attacking threat down the right, we would need Dembele to play RW, Coutinho LW. But then we would need a more muscular and atheltic midfield than Busquets and Rakitic. We can get a muscular midfield but that still doesnt solve the problem of fluid football.

I think the issue is fairly clear. We have a very predictable way of attacking where all plays go through one player. Now that player is one of the best of all time. But its not a coincidence that over the years, the dominant brand of football has become less and less common. We now struggle to beat bottom teams at home. Teams have figured us out and the pass to Alba can only work so many times.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by BarcaLearning on Sun 7 Oct - 22:32

I would have liked to see Dembele introduced earlier, maybe Valverde was being not too aggressive going for the three points, but Valencia pretty much PTB and without Guedes they werent all that threatening...

Our midfield three of Busqusts/Rakatic/Arthur doesnt offer that much going forward, and with Semedo its the same, so would have been good to see depending on the situation this game we really should have tried a bit more to win it in terms of subs, we relied just on the left even Messi ended constantly on the left shooting for goal with his right foot lol. God we still miss a Dani Alves type of player for our right....
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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by Kebab on Mon 8 Oct - 0:17

Predictability comes when Coutinho or Arthur or Alba cant dribble past players, or cant find space to make a through balls, they have nothing to do and they pass it to Messi instead of losing it under pressure. This is usually happens against PTB teams. When a great team parks the bus at home you cant do much

Against Tottenham it was a different game, no predictability and all players played amazing football.

Dembele must be used against PTB teams to make a counter attacks. Need 2 dembeles one in right and one in left to run like horse after opponent loses the ball, you cant do it with turtles like busquets arthur and rakitic, and a bit faster turtle coutinho.  we also have a buffalo infront. But if you want to make counter attacks you need gazelles here and Turtelona have none. I suffer from depression when  i see there is a counter attacking chance and rakitic passes it back to Ter stegen

Team is great, its clear to see that they dont care about la liga much. its 4 years and they have no CL, they decided to go for CL using R.Madrid's way. Personally i want Valencia to win la liga
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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by futbol on Mon 8 Oct - 4:44

Natural decline, I can't complain much. Considering the personnel, we are playing very dominant football. Look at the holes in our team.

Semedo is a far cry from what we had there in the past decade.

Pique was always a fraud who did well when the team was dominant. Now he is a washed up, old, slow fraud.

Alba is very active on the left but he seriously only has one move. Get on the end of Messi long passes and then cross it back to Messi. I'm perplexed how he managed 3 assists against Spurs, only English teams can be that stupid for sure.

Busquets is Busquets but I feel he is also washed up now. He was never fast of course but on the break it's a sad sight these days to see 30 year old Busquets trying to sprint back.

Rakitic is probably tired from the World Cup. I expect him to get better after Christmas.

Coutinho is never a midfielder or much of a combination player. He is James Rodriguez. Great shot, active in the final third and that's it.

Messi and Suarez both past their primes, despite still being decisive.


Really, the only reason I believe that we can actually win the CL this season is that the rest of Europe is even worse than we are. PSG, Juventus, Liverpool and City are the teams that could beat us. The rest, on a normal day, should not happen.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by windkick on Mon 8 Oct - 7:19

@alexjanosik wrote:
@windkick wrote:Genius by EV to wait until the 84th min to make a sub. Great way to build the confidence to the bench players, great time to make changes and genius strategist

I seriously want him his bland ass to go


Its easy to blame him. How do you suggest we fix the bland way of playing? We saw the same bland football under multiple coaches now. Tito, Tata, Enrique, Valverde.
Do I think Valverde is Pep?
No, but we have to realise that the problem is we cant play a fluid, functional 4-3-3 with Messi.


I had a few suggestions a few posts back.

I think EV's rotations have been awful, for example when he tried playing Vermalean at LB instead of giving Miranda a shot or Sergi at DM instead of giving Samper a shot. In no way am I saying Samper and Miranda are better over all players but they would of at least been playing in natural positions, and those 2 times were in games that were relativity easier so it would of provided a good time to test the kids. So for one, I think EV should trust the Masia when there is an opportunity to do so instead of playing guys out of position.

Secondly, I don't blame him for Suarez turning into a assist machine who can't score. Suarez is going to be 32 very soon and has played a TON of minutes, so his goal decline has more to do with his own age and possibly that operation he had on his knee around the time of the 2014 WC than anything tactically EV is doing to him. But somehow EV refuses to sub or rotate him. So I offered a few changes to experiment with to see what works best with what we currently have...

Make Suarez a sub until he gets it together. Make Messi the striker and have Coutinho always play on the left wing and not in midfield. The right wing can have Dembele and Malcom rotate. This is if we stick with a 4-3-3. This should work because the issue before was that Messi had to fall back deep into midfield to help retain the ball; which is what happened with Argentina. Right now Arthur, Busqs and anyone of Rakitic and Vidal can help hold the ball plus having fast guys Dembele/Malcom on the right and Coutinho on the left who the opposing defense has to focus on should provide all the width for Messi to do his work as a false 9. Once Suarez gets subbed on Messi can move to the right OR...we can move to the following formation.....

A 4-2-3-1 with Suarez up front with a line of Coutinho, Messi and Dembele behind the striker. Rakitic can also play at CAM if Messi plays on the right, and in midfield we have Busq who can pair with Vidal or Arthur


IF he wants to stick with last years 4-4-2 from last season thats also fine, but stop playing guys out of position and realize what works and what doesn't.

But a few things are certain. Messi roams all over the field so having him play on the right is ridiculous as he will leave his post and it leaves us vulnerable for attack on that flank. So having him play as a false 9 or as a CAM to me makes the most sense since the midfielders behind him can always cover for him better than Sergi or Semedo alone on the right. Suarez is on a decline and that is clear as day. Since last season, he has 1 total goal in the Champions league (entire last seasons campaign and this one). That is our main number 9. He is turning into Benzema at this rate, a guy who can help the build up play and provide the assist but can't himself score anymore. this makes it easier to stop our attack since now teams just have to bog down on Messi and not focus on Suarez as he doesn't have that burst he once has. And Dembele, for all his qualities he DOES give up the ball allot and makes silly mistakes, so I don't see why EV doesn't bother to rotate him with Malcom to see who turns out better until Dembele works out these issues in his game. The midfield is a mess, we have Arhtur who looks like a real talent who should be starting, and Busqs who is a gaurunteed starter but Rakitics form has been so up and down. Then you have Vidal who is pissed off about his playing time and then we have Alena getting zero minutes. So we already have too many guys fighting for 3 positions (Rakitic, Busq, Alena, Rafinha, D.Suarez, Samper, Vidal, Arthur) and the clubs is still trying to bring in DeJong, Rabiot and possibly Pogba. How does that make any sense? Then we have the CB issue with Pique having more bad moments than good, and Lenglet looking bang average since he arrived, and Umiti being up and down in form as well. The club clearly needs to look into getting another CB sooner rather than later.

I believe the club secretly bought Vidal with the intention of selling him to China for a profit and never really planned on using him.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by BarcaLearning on Mon 8 Oct - 9:03

Following on the few posts above, and generally just writing my thoughts, we never found someone great for our right side which had been our strength when Alves was still with us, and then Neymar came, Alba kept improving going forward, and now it seems our only main outlet... earlier in the season Dembele played on the right sometimes and I thought that might be the solution for us, but it hasnt worked out. No idea about Malcolm but also just seen him on the left. We only have Roberto who can do some attacking on the right, Rakitic and Semedo are not the type of players for it... so we need to figure something our to improve our right side against PTB teams...

Vidal is a great midfielder, I just hope he is still adapting to our play and can make an impact for us...

Suarez overplaying, its too bad none of the backups manage to step up when given the chance, Paco left to Dortmund who is firing atm, so Suarez has even less backup now.

Coutinho is great, but never really gonna be consistently be the main guy, hes still a bit too one dimensional/one trick pony.

We got issue but we are still very good, especially if Messi stays on this type of form. For the CL, I am hopeful this season after so long, and the way we went out last season, and all the other teams in it do have their weaknesses, so tbh wouldnt mind doing a Real and win the CL and nothing else I would be ok with that this season Razz

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Mon 8 Oct - 16:51

@alexjanosik wrote:So my question is: How would we suddenly play good football even under Pep with Messi playing the way he is now? Different personnel wont solve the issue.

Now if you say we play 4-4-2, that still doesnt make us play better. The attacking would still predominantly come from the left. To have a viable attacking threat down the right, we would need Dembele to play RW, Coutinho LW. But then we would need a more muscular and atheltic midfield than Busquets and Rakitic. We can get a muscular midfield but that still doesnt solve the problem of fluid football.

I think the issue is fairly clear. We have a very predictable way of attacking where all plays go through one player. Now that player is one of the best of all time. But its not a coincidence that over the years, the dominant brand of football has become less and less common. We now struggle to beat bottom teams at home. Teams have figured us out and the pass to Alba can only work so many times.


I think the only way to keep the 433 and play attractive football would be to bench Suarez and go back to playing false 9, but that brings in a whole host of other issues, not to mention benching one of our most decisive players.

In terms of 442 our midfield could be more muscular if we played Vidal, if that's the direction you want to go in. Would probably mean benching Rakitic.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by windkick on Thu 11 Oct - 7:24

rumors we will drop 130 to Ajax for de Ligt and DeJong.

I don't buy it, but I do believe we will try and land de Light and Ferland Mendy in January (doubt we get de Light but we need him).

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by alexjanosik on Sat 13 Oct - 12:05

@windkick wrote:
@alexjanosik wrote:
@windkick wrote:Genius by EV to wait until the 84th min to make a sub. Great way to build the confidence to the bench players, great time to make changes and genius strategist

I seriously want him his bland ass to go


Its easy to blame him. How do you suggest we fix the bland way of playing? We saw the same bland football under multiple coaches now. Tito, Tata, Enrique, Valverde.
Do I think Valverde is Pep?
No, but we have to realise that the problem is we cant play a fluid, functional 4-3-3 with Messi.


I had a few suggestions a few posts back.

I think EV's rotations have been awful, for example when he tried playing Vermalean at LB instead of giving Miranda a shot or Sergi at DM instead of giving Samper a shot. In no way am I saying Samper and Miranda are better over all players but they would of at least been playing in natural positions, and those 2 times were in games that were relativity easier so it would of provided a good time to test the kids. So for one, I think EV should trust the Masia when there is an opportunity to do so instead of playing guys out of position.

Secondly, I don't blame him for Suarez turning into a assist machine who can't score. Suarez is going to be 32 very soon and has played a TON of minutes, so his goal decline has more to do with his own age and possibly that operation he had on his knee around the time of the 2014 WC than anything tactically EV is doing to him. But somehow EV refuses to sub or rotate him. So I offered a few changes to experiment with to see what works best with what we currently have...

Make Suarez a sub until he gets it together. Make Messi the striker and have Coutinho always play on the left wing and not in midfield. The right wing can have Dembele and Malcom rotate. This is if we stick with a 4-3-3. This should work because the issue before was that Messi had to fall back deep into midfield to help retain the ball; which is what happened with Argentina. Right now Arthur, Busqs and anyone of Rakitic and Vidal can help hold the ball plus having fast guys Dembele/Malcom on the right and Coutinho on the left who the opposing defense has to focus on should provide all the width for Messi to do his work as a false 9. Once Suarez gets subbed on Messi can move to the right OR...we can move to the following formation.....

A 4-2-3-1 with Suarez up front with a line of Coutinho, Messi and Dembele behind the striker. Rakitic can also play at CAM if Messi plays on the right, and in midfield we have Busq who can pair with Vidal or Arthur


IF he wants to stick with last years 4-4-2 from last season thats also fine, but stop playing guys out of position and realize what works and what doesn't.

But a few things are certain. Messi roams all over the field so having him play on the right is ridiculous as he will leave his post and it leaves us vulnerable for attack on that flank. So having him play as a false 9 or as a CAM to me makes the most sense since the midfielders behind him can always cover for him better than Sergi or Semedo alone on the right. Suarez is on a decline and that is clear as day. Since last season, he has 1 total goal in the Champions league (entire last seasons campaign and this one). That is our main number 9. He is turning into Benzema at this rate, a guy who can help the build up play and provide the assist but can't himself score anymore. this makes it easier to stop our attack since now teams just have to bog down on Messi and not focus on Suarez as he doesn't have that burst he once has. And Dembele, for all his qualities he DOES give up the ball allot and makes silly mistakes, so I don't see why EV doesn't bother to rotate him with Malcom to see who turns out better until Dembele works out these issues in his game. The midfield is a mess, we have Arhtur who looks like a real talent who should be starting, and Busqs who is a gaurunteed starter but Rakitics form has been so up and down. Then you have Vidal who is pissed off about his playing time and then we have Alena getting zero minutes. So we already have too many guys fighting for 3 positions (Rakitic, Busq, Alena, Rafinha, D.Suarez, Samper, Vidal, Arthur) and the clubs is still trying to bring in DeJong, Rabiot and possibly Pogba. How does that make any sense? Then we have the CB issue with Pique having more bad moments than good, and Lenglet looking bang average since he arrived, and Umiti being up and down in form as well. The club clearly needs to look into getting another CB sooner rather than later.

I believe the club secretly bought Vidal with the intention of selling him to China for a profit and never really planned on using him.


Good post. I do think Messi should play in the center as him playing on the right is the disaster.
I am open to him playing false 9. It is debatable whether it will work in 2018 given that he doesnt move at all but no harm in trying. The issue I have though is the wide players that you suggested. For false 9 Messi to work, you need wide players who will make a lot of off the ball runs into goal scoring positions or behind the defense. Coutinho and Dembele are nopt going to do that. Thats not their game. And if we do try to do that, that will be a waste of $300m unless they both turn into 30 goal a season players.
So I would play Suarez on the left so we have atleast one player making off the ball runs and Dembele on the right. He would provide a mix of both, runs in behind and dribbling, combining with Semedo to break parked buses.

On Suarez, I disagree. The reason he is not scoring is not decline. Has he declined? Yes, he is not the force of nature he once was. But the scoring issue is not entirely his. He is left all alone against 2 CB's and sometimes the RB too. His job has essentially become to create space for Messi to score. I can post countless goals Messi has scored over the past 2 seasons which wouldnt have happened without Suarez. He makes the selfless run knowing full well he wont get the pass. This enables Messi free space who then scores. It doesnt show up in the stats but it is intangible and adds a lot of value. I am fairly certain that in the current system, no striker can do a better job. Be it Kane, Lewa, Cavani etc.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by alexjanosik on Sat 13 Oct - 12:10

@futbol wrote:Natural decline, I can't complain much. Considering the personnel, we are playing very dominant football. Look at the holes in our team.

Semedo is a far cry from what we had there in the past decade.

Pique was always a fraud who did well when the team was dominant. Now he is a washed up, old, slow fraud.

Alba is very active on the left but he seriously only has one move. Get on the end of Messi long passes and then cross it back to Messi. I'm perplexed how he managed 3 assists against Spurs, only English teams can be that stupid for sure.

Busquets is Busquets but I feel he is also washed up now. He was never fast of course but on the break it's a sad sight these days to see 30 year old Busquets trying to sprint back.

Rakitic is probably tired from the World Cup. I expect him to get better after Christmas.

Coutinho is never a midfielder or much of a combination player. He is James Rodriguez. Great shot, active in the final third and that's it.

Messi and Suarez both past their primes, despite still being decisive.


Really, the only reason I believe that we can actually win the CL this season is that the rest of Europe is even worse than we are. PSG, Juventus, Liverpool and City are the teams that could beat us. The rest, on a normal day, should not happen.


I dont think it is a personnel issue. Are the players as good as before? Ofcourse not. But we had 3 GOATS in Xavi, Ineista and Alves. The very best the game has ever seen in their position. It is unreasonable to expect replacements to be as good.
Man for man, we have one of the best squads in Europe. Freaking Atletico and Juve have outperformed us in Europe. Juve have Khedira and a bunch of nobodies in midfield. Same with Liverpool and others. Real supposedly have the bestest midfield. Modric won the player of the player. And yet, we dominate them more often than not in midfield. Rakitic normally outplays Modric every single time we meet. Are you telling me that Busquets, Rakitic, Vidal and Coutinho are not as good as whatever garbage Juve or Atletico have in midfield?


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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by futbol on Sat 13 Oct - 16:04

Yes, we have better midfielders than Juve or Atletico name for name but in big games Juve and Atletico will park the bus and their midfielders seem to be better in defending us than ours are in breaking them down. Doesn't matter if they are less creative, less press resistant, lesser dribblers, worse at dictating etc. It's enough for their midfielders to excel in 1 single aspect of the game (defense) to win.

If we had Simeone as coach and played a deep 4-4-2 block with Vidal, Rakitic, Busquets, Arthur, we would walk the CL for sure. We would never concede and somehow get that 1 goal by some Messi magic.

However, for our style, we don't have dominant enough players. When going forward, Pique and Busquets are exposed and Coutinho does not combine well enough despite great individual actions.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by alexjanosik on Sat 13 Oct - 16:41

Assuming you want us to play our style, who are the dominant players who can come in and help us? With Messi in the side. I want player names and I want an idea of how we would play dominant attractive football (and not the standrad pass to Alba that we have seen for the past 5 years) with Messi?

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by futbol on Sat 13 Oct - 19:05

I want us to play our style. I wouldn't have a problem winning ugly in a few games either but for us to win ugly we'd have to practise it week in week out. Can't just flip a switch and become Atletico all of a sudden in the CL.

Realistically we play offensive football.

Who can come in and help us? I don't know, football quality seems on the decline. I mean we are left with Sergi Roberto as a RB and I still can't think of a potential world class rightback to replace him with, how terrible is that?

Suarez is old but no one is better than him, surely not Lewandowski, Agüero etc. Mbappe would be a dream but impossible of course.

In defense I believe Lenglet-Umititi (I don't know how comfortable one of them would be on the right) would be enough, just get Pique out of the starting XI. He gets destroyed by everyone.

Busquets is a liability in fast and physical games these days, only good when we are in control. I feel Arthur is a very safe and press resistant player but he is lacking the final ball. He would be good in
a double pivot as a build-up player with someone physical like Kanté on his side IMO. The third in the middle shouldn't be Coutinho though. Shouldn't be Vidal or Rakitic either, rather someone who can carry the ball and link midfield and attack. Don't know anyone.

Then Coutinho, Suarez and Messi upfront. Even if Messi does not defend well, Kanté type of player would compensate for that.

With the personnel we have our best bet in big games would probably be:


Coutinho-Suarez-Messi
Rakitic-Arthur-Vidal
Alba-Lenglet-Umtiti-Semedo
MAtS

But then we have basically no speed and runners in behind. Except Alba.

Just too many flaws, seriously.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by alexjanosik on Sat 13 Oct - 21:00

@futbol wrote:I want us to play our style. I wouldn't have a problem winning ugly in a few games either but for us to win ugly we'd have to practise it week in week out. Can't just flip a switch and become Atletico all of a sudden in the CL.

Realistically we play offensive football.

Who can come in and help us? I don't know, football quality seems on the decline. I mean we are left with Sergi Roberto as a RB and I still can't think of a potential world class rightback to replace him with, how terrible is that?

Suarez is old but no one is better than him, surely not Lewandowski, Agüero etc. Mbappe would be a dream but impossible of course.

In defense I believe Lenglet-Umititi (I don't know how comfortable one of them would be on the right) would be enough, just get Pique out of the starting XI. He gets destroyed by everyone.

Busquets is a liability in fast and physical games these days, only good when we are in control. I feel Arthur is a very safe and press resistant player but he is lacking the final ball. He would be good in
a double pivot as a build-up player with someone physical like Kanté on his side IMO. The third in the middle shouldn't be Coutinho though. Shouldn't be Vidal or Rakitic either, rather someone who can carry the ball and link midfield and attack. Don't know anyone.

Then Coutinho, Suarez and Messi upfront. Even if Messi does not defend well, Kanté type of player would compensate for that.

With the personnel we have our best bet in big games would probably be:


Coutinho-Suarez-Messi
Rakitic-Arthur-Vidal
Alba-Lenglet-Umtiti-Semedo
MAtS

But then we have basically no speed and runners in behind. Except Alba.

Just too many flaws, seriously.


How does Kante help us play dominant, vibrant attacking football though? Or any of the changes you suggested?
Lets assume we get Mbappe. Still dont see how we play virbrant football. You still have Messi in the side who will want to play like a 10 and for everything to go through him. He plays like an old school number 10, like a Maradona, Platini etc. And as long as thats the case, doesnt matter who we get. The football will be bland and one dimensional, with severe tactical flaws.

The highlighted part is the problem. If we play true 4-3-3 with Messi playing like a proper wide forward, we would play good attacking football and would be a force to reckon with in CL.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by futbol on Sun 14 Oct - 4:09

Kante would be the guy to make up for Messi's defensive positioning. I believe we can afford Messi doing whatever he wants if it isn't Busquets and Pique covering for Messi's lack of defensive discipline.

Mbappe would add a lot more speed than Suarez.

Then you need a dominant right back and we're more or less good to go.

My biggest gripe is our defensive work. We would play a lot more comfortable overall if every lost ball wouldn't turn into mayham in our defense. Even Chelsea cut through it like through hot butter last season time and time again and they were not even top 4 in England. This makes everyone else play insecurely on the team. Fix the defense and Messi, Coutinho, Suarez and Alba is enough to win games on the other end.

Pique and Busquets can't deal with fast and physical games anymore.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by Myesyats on Sun 14 Oct - 4:30

Should have gotten Mbappe instead of Dumbpele. We wouldn't be having this conversation now. He would compliment Messi in a way I can't even imagine.

I also like the Ndombele guy. We need to build a French bastion IMO.



Also, apparently, if Valverde is sacked, Quique Setién should step in with Jordi Cruyff as assistant. SPORT is reporting this, I believe.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by alexjanosik on Sun 14 Oct - 8:14

@futbol wrote:Kante would be the guy to make up for Messi's defensive positioning. I believe we can afford Messi doing whatever he wants if it isn't Busquets and Pique covering for Messi's lack of defensive discipline.

Mbappe would add a lot more speed than Suarez.

Then you need a dominant right back and we're more or less good to go.

My biggest gripe is our defensive work. We would play a lot more comfortable overall if every lost ball wouldn't turn into mayham in our defense. Even Chelsea cut through it like through hot butter last season time and time again and they were not even top 4 in England. This makes everyone else play insecurely on the team. Fix the defense and Messi, Coutinho, Suarez and Alba is enough to win games on the other end.

Pique and Busquets can't deal with fast and physical games anymore.


We are talking two different things. The entire discussion started around how we can play good attacking Barca football. Would Kante make us defensively solid? Undoubtedly. But we would be even worse than we are now when it comes to offense. Kante solves the defensive problem but I dont see how he solves the boring one dimensional pass to Alba and cut back problem.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by futbol on Mon 15 Oct - 11:39

If you want to see how done Busquets is, watch him vs. England now.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by windkick on Mon 15 Oct - 12:04

Busqs isn't done. he's been great for us this season and if anything has been one of our more consistent performers. Harsh to point the finger at him for the crap performance by Spain right now.

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Re: Match Day Thread

Post by windkick on Mon 15 Oct - 12:07

Btw Lenglet and Pique are our only 2 available first team CBs that are healthy for the rest of October and going into November. Pique has been in horrible form and I don't think Lenglets had a single good performance since joining. It's going to be a shit show if our midfield can't hold on to the ball and gives up easy counters (which they have been doing all season)

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Re: Match Day Thread

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