Ramos is the GOAT

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by Firenze on Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:55 pm

@RealGunner wrote:Creating a completely new legacy. Penalty taking Centre Back captain. Will get 10 goals at least this season if not more.

No words.

Will surpass the likes of beckenbauer, Maldini, Baresi and Moore. If he hasn't already.


lol Ramos has already surpassed all of those for the current gen

50 years from now they'll be talking about him, not those other players

unreal legacy for a player that IMO is only B+ defensively

GOAT clutch/leadership qualities though

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by RealGunner on Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:56 pm

6 goals away from reaching 100 Laughing

Will retire as one of the greatest CBs to ever live.
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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:15 pm

I love Ramos and I'm grateful to him so much for everything he has done for us. There were times where he single-handedly pulled us back from the dead and gifted us the three points or a CL trophy. He's a natural born leader with a bottomless pit of grit, courage and heart, and for Madrid, he's valuable beyond measure.

However, I'm honest enough to admit that it would be a crime against humanity to mention him in the same breath as history's greatest CBs.

My reasoning behind that is that while he's unbelievably talented in other areas, he simply doesn't have the required tools to be considered a good defender, let alone one of the best.

You could argue that he's one of the best leaders the game has ever seen. But as a defender, he's pretty average.

I wouldn't swap him for anybody as crazy as that may seem. He's synonymous with Real Madrid. He's an idiot, but he's our idiot. He has bled for Madrid, sometimes even literally and fought for the shirt as if his life depended on it. He's a symbol, a hero and a gladiator of the White Coliseum. And for that alone, I'm willing to turn a blind eye to his average defending and tip my hat to him.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by Freeza on Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:23 pm

I don't know about leader either. At least on the pitch. He often boils over and leaves his team in a bad situation when he gets too hot headed.

Off the pitch he's an incredible leader really. Love him there. But the constant intentional elbows he throws and dirty play.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by sportsczy on Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:38 pm

Ramos is best known for his goals and leadership... not his defending ability. He and Marcelo are the two biggest culprits of our poor starts the last 2 seasons. They've been a sieve on that side. Neither can defend worth a lick.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:03 am

Ramos is also an excellent defender. I have seen him drop absolutely flawless performances on the big stage in the biggest games in football over and over.

He is definitely one of the best defender all time.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:48 am

As a defender, Ramos is not nearly consistent enough to be called one of the greatest defenders.

But he is definitely one of the absolute best at being at the receiving end of a dead ball, not just of defenders but of players full stop. And incredibly clutch at it.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:24 am

I disagree with you both, Ramos is also a great defender. If he is not one of the best of his generation then show me who, and i will show you how they get exposed too, and how they have failed on the biggest stage unlike Ramos.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by RealGunner on Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:45 pm

Yea i am not sure why he isn't a great defender? He rarely ever gets outdone by a striker. Never has matches where he is the reason madrid lose. Doesn't give penalties away. Excellent in tackles and has a great understanding of the game

Look at crowd favourite thiago silva who was said to be a 'great' defender. When he was actually in the lime light and people didn't rely on fifa to judge him, he was found out to be the scrub he is.

Ramos belongs in the same category as Maldini, Nesta, Beckenbauer etc when he retires.
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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by Freeza on Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:52 pm

@RealGunner wrote:Yea i am not sure why he isn't a great defender? He rarely ever gets outdone by a striker. Never has matches where he is the reason madrid lose. Doesn't give penalties away. Excellent in tackles and has a great understanding of the game.

I feel like the point of this post is to give me an aneurysm

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by Mamad on Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:47 pm

Ramos could win another 10 defender of the year awards and he will still be shite at his job. which is defending.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:28 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:I disagree with you both, Ramos is also a great defender. If he is not one of the best of his generation then show me who, and i will show you how they get exposed too, and how they have failed on the biggest stage unlike Ramos.


Do other great defenders get found out from time to time? Sure, you can look at Puyol's, Vidic's or Terry's careers and find a bleep there. But they were all far better defenders than Ramos will ever hope to be. And that's just within his own generation, if you look at the past and you find true GOATs the comparison is not fair to Ramos.

Ramos is clutch, and that means that when you try to remember him you remember that time he scored a 90th minute goal in the CL and salvaged the game. But it's also true that his mistakes have contributed to RM only winning like 2 leagues in the past decade, he's a cup legend but league flop IMO.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by Unique on Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:01 pm

@RealGunner wrote:Yea i am not sure why he isn't a great defender? He rarely ever gets outdone by a striker. Never has matches where he is the reason madrid lose. Doesn't give penalties away. Excellent in tackles and has a great understanding of the game

Look at crowd favourite thiago silva who was said to be a 'great' defender. When he was actually in the lime light and people didn't rely on fifa to judge him, he was found out to be the scrub he is.

Ramos belongs in the same category as Maldini, Nesta, Beckenbauer etc when he retires.
that post was doing fine until the last bit.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by Clutch on Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:09 pm

Ramos just relies on his superb athleticism when hes defending and it's usually good enough to be considered a professional footballer.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:05 am

What's wrong with relying on your athleticism? Football is a sports yeah? Show me an elite defender who is an awful athlete.

Actually you can hardly be a good player is you are a poor athlete.

Sometimes I feel like the spectre on Ramos is so large that we forget how incredible a player and defender he is. He went through a run of 4 CL semis and finals and he was absolutely clinical.

There is no one in football who has been that good, at that high a level, with such consistency. It's just a fact.

Show me one CB who has to perform with a fullback as reckless as Marcelo day in and day out. You have guys like Godin who are praised as gods when they play in extra conservative systems where everyone defends till death but somehow it doesn't bother anyone

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by sportsczy on Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:20 am

Nice trolling by Nick.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by VivaStPauli on Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:19 pm

@RealGunner wrote:Yea i am not sure why he isn't a great defender? He rarely ever gets outdone by a striker. Never has matches where he is the reason madrid lose. Doesn't give penalties away. Excellent in tackles and has a great understanding of the game


He doesn't give penalties away because the refs are blind, or not entirely impartial. I have seen him commit dozens of penalty (and red card) worthy fouls in the box.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by Doc on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:19 pm

Godin won't think he is an attacking midfielder and try to join the attack leaving his CB partner exposed to the elements. Godin won't go up recklessly for every fking corner and free kick thinking he can score from every set piece. There are serious fundamental flaws in Ramos' game that I really cannot place him as "one of the greats". No way.

He is in his 30s now and still cannot pull off an offside trap properly. He still constantly loses concentration in matches that aren't considered "big matches". He has real issues in knowing when to stand up or go down and tackle and constantly does reckless shit that either causes him to get ridiculous yellows (and subsequently, red cards).

Ramos is a good footballer and by and large a good defender but my thought of him, as a Madrid fan, is solely based on his leadership and how clutch he is. All the all time greats had those as well but they were also really consistent throughout a season and not just for the big time. In any case, Ramos would go down as a Madrid and Spanish legend and those who'll consider him an all time great would greatly out number the likes of, well, me and Freeza.

Basically, stop trolling Nick, club football is coming back just now.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:41 pm

Doc, I'm one of those "all time great" and I completely agree with Nick!!!! Very Happy
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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:42 pm

I am not trolling solely because we are more critical with our players than any fanbase out there.

While other player enjoy a flawless reputation because 1) no one watch them 2) we don't care as much about their mistakes.

You see Godin since the start of this season for example has been remarkably poor. But you don't see threads about how bad Godin has been, or people questioning the value of his career. And I can argue it's been the same last year.

Remember when Silva was the best thing since sliced bread? And then we saw how he got murked in Europe, and the crying started.

Like I said, I want to know who are those all time great CBs contemporaries of Ramos, and what they have done.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by Doc on Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:47 pm

That's mostly because:
A) Godin plays for Atletico and only La Liga enthusiasts and Atleti fans watch/comment on them. They are not Madrid or Barca where they are forever being scrutinized.
B) Godin has quite a bit of leeway after years of consistent great defending so now that he is slowly getting long in the tooth like all great defenders, most folks (see A) would restrain their comments. Ramos does not have that same luxury, at all.
C) Definitely A. Like, that cannot be anymore stated.


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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by BarrileteCosmico on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:58 pm

I just want to say that the "Atleti are a hyper defensive team" argument doesn't hold true for at least the last 3-4 years. That's not the reason Godin is so highly regarded.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by sportsczy on Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:09 pm

It is easier to defend when you're well surrounded. HOWEVER, Ramos makes too many mistakes. Madrid fans know it.

I have no problem with calling Ramos a great leader, a great scorer for a CB and an inconsistent defender.

Just to put it in perspective, Pepe was considered the much better CB to Ramos and now Varane is miles ahead of him. Before that, it was Ricardo Carvalho. I'd say that at no point was Ramos considered the best CB at Real Madrid.

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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:18 pm

Well since when does your opinion become the de facto consensus!

I don’t remember him playing with Carvalho. I think Carvalho became a bench player when Ramos was converted to CB from RB.

It wasn’t Pepe that ManU came after and in an effort to keep their best CB offered him a huge (for a CB) lengthly contract to keep him from ManU.

And while Varane has become a great CB, he has not surpassed Ramos, perhaps in your mind, but definitely not the consensus view.
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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by rincon on Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:28 pm

This conversation wouldn't exist if Ramos didn't score goals. That sums him up as a defender.
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Re: Ramos is the GOAT

Post by sportsczy on Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:05 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:Well since when does your opinion become the de facto consensus!

I don’t remember him playing with Carvalho. I think Carvalho became a bench player when Ramos was converted to CB from RB.

It wasn’t Pepe that ManU came after and in an effort to keep their best CB offered him a huge (for a CB) lengthly contract to keep him from ManU.

And while Varane has become a great CB, he has not surpassed Ramos, perhaps in your mind, but definitely not the consensus view.

When pepe was suspended or injured, ramos played CB.  Man u came after Ramos because Mourinho wanted him gone and there were rumors Ramos wanted to leave if benched... remember Ramos allegedly asking Flo if he could go to Barca.  

And Varane was a better CB than Ramos the moment he was born.

Ramos is a garbage defender.  He really is.  Big reason is that he's completely unpredictable.  If he was consistently weak in area and strong in others, a team could compensate.  But you can't compensate for a guy who changes profiles literally from game to game.  

Not to mention not understanding the offside rule as of yet.

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