Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

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Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by urbaNRoots on Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:01 pm

vs

Mon 10 Apr 2017 - Selhurst Park, London


Crystal Palace vs Arsenal




Team news:
Palace: Yohan Cabaye (calf) is likely to join an extensive Crystal Palace injury list including Patrick van Aanholt (ankle), Connor Wickham, Scott Dann (both knee), Pape Souare, Fraizer Campbell (both thigh), James Tomkins and Patrick van Aanholt (both calf). Joe Ledley is definitely available after the birth of his child and James McArthur (back) is hopeful of a return.

Arsenal: Arsenal remain without goalkeepers Petr Cech (calf) and David Ospina (muscular), centre-back Laurent Koscielny (Achilles) and striker Lucas Perez (quadriceps), but Francis Coquelin (personal reasons) is available again.

Arsene Wenger press conference






Scouting report


THE MANAGER
Sam Allardyce was appointed by Crystal Palace shortly before Christmas, following Alan Pardew’s dismissal. After an initially difficult period, Allardyce has stamped his mark upon Palace and there’s the usual brand of solid defending, direct football and reliance upon a big target man. Although Palace lost 3-1 at Southampton on Wednesday night, they’d previously won four matches in a row to lift themselves out of the relegation zone.


FORMATION
Palace’s formation is essentially 4-1-4-1, with Serbian holding midfielder Luka Milivojevic sitting in front of the defence, while Yohan Cabaye and Jason Puncheon are given more freedom to advance. Andros Townsend and Wilfried Zaha attack from the flanks, and provide centre forward Christian Benteke with crosses.


STRENGTHS
Benteke wins more aerial duels than any other player in the Premier League - in fact, in this respect he’s just ahead of Andy Carroll, who Arsenal successfully nullified in midweek. Palace are also suddenly very solid in defence, despite conceding three at Southampton. The January arrival of Mamadou Sakho partly explains that, and now Palace are a formidable side in the two penalty boxes.


DANGERMAN
Benteke is the greatest goal threat, but winger Zaha has been in sensational form recently, netting in victories at West Brom and Chelsea, scoring an incredible goal on international duty for the Ivory Coast, and mixing counter-attacking speed in deep positions with efficiency around the box. Arsenal must stop him.


AREAS TO TARGET
Left back Jeffrey Schlupp is more impressive going forward than when defending, and can leave too much space in behind. That might be exploited by the runs of Theo Walcott.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20170407/the-breakdown-crystal-palace-preview
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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by RealGunner on Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:15 pm

Benteke is going to ruin Mustafi/Gabriel lol

Need to keep the same team. Only change I'd make is Oxlade for Welbeck.
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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by iftikhar on Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:09 pm

You must win, you must win.

You can't let MU get 5th...

also, where's Sri???????????
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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by RealGunner on Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:05 pm

Martínez, Bellerín, Mustafi, Gabriel, Monreal, Elneny, Xhaka, Walcott, Özil, Sánchez, Welbeck



No height

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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by Jay29 on Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:57 pm

Remember when Alexis was playing down the middle and doing really, really well?

Apparently Wenger doesn't.
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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by RealGunner on Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:58 pm

Welbeck is so not a striker. He is always on the back foot.

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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by RealGunner on Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:00 pm

Arsenal club captain PL starts:

2013/14: Vermaelen 7
2014/15: Arteta 6
2015/16: Arteta 0
2016/17: Mertesacker 0
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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by RealGunner on Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:39 pm

Nothing to see here

As predicted

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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by Twoism on Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:50 pm

So guys, is it humiliating enough yet?
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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by RealGunner on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:08 pm

Gabriel and Mustafi didn't win a single tackle against Crystal Palace today. They failed with five of their attempts.

Allardyce: "They leave Gabriel and Mustafi really exposed ... You can get at them."
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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by urbaNRoots on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:12 pm

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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by RealGunner on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:34 pm

I am sick of Arsenal for the first time in my life. Back in the days, I'd rather watch Arsenal than attend my dad's birthday party. Now I rather watch 2 girls one cup than watch Arsenal play. Heck, 2 girls one cup has less shit involved than the Arsenal matches.

Sick of this.

Retiring from Arsenal.

I was here when we used to play Squillaci-Silvestre in defence
I was here when Andre Santos made false LB his own position
I was here when we signed park chu young and I was also here when sent him to conscription camp in South Korea
I was here when Wilshere sold us dreams to be the next Pirlo but instead turned out to be the next mark Noble
I was here when Arsene signed Amauri Bischoff and Thomas Eisfeld for our future.

But tonight. I am officially finished from backing this sorry joke of a team.

Lowest Arsenal have ever been.

*bleep* this shit


Last edited by RealGunner on Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by Jay29 on Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:08 pm

Should I call you RealJuvetino now? hmm
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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by RealGunner on Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:21 pm

Yes

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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by Eman on Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:29 am

Do you ever look at fans of shit teams and wonder how they do it? I mean teams that get relegated and pop back up, maybe slide further and further from glory every year, yet the fans are there week in week out supporting them in the off chance that they win a game or actually improve and one day compete for something. I'm talking fans of Leeds, of Portsmouth, of Newcastle who have seen their teams at the highest and lowest levels. Fans of teams like Leicester, Juve or Dortmund who have tasted glory only to be fed pure pig shit the following year. How did they keep the faith?

They did it, they do it still, because what mattered more to them than winning was loyalty. I would argue that most real fans of this beautiful game love it due to the morals of the game - the idea that what there team is, what it represents is more important than winning. It's worth being shit sometimes. It's who they are, it's their religion, and they're proud of it in a way that the most entitled fans of top teams just could never be. They deserve glory more than anyone and get it less than anyone, but they push on.

It's times like this, when we're as shit as we are now, that I think of such fans and feel thankful for what we have. We are absolute trash by our standards right now, and our standards are below those of a truly great team - a Real Madrid, a Barca, a Bayern Munich, etc. And yet, while previous teams with far less star-studded lineups have outperformed the side of 2016/2017, never have we been closer to having a truly great team. Have we not universally accepted as a fan base that we are nearly perfectly placed for the first time in decades?

Sure, we want to win now. But what else are we missing on the personnel front? A striker, a DM...maybe a LB? People have a lot of other opinions but let's be realistic - we don't have a team that is mostly shit. Most of it is class. And we have money now. Wouldn't we have bitten off someone's hand to have this a few years ago? When we had no money, couldn't sign anyone, and were doomed to sell our best players year in year out, we would have seen this as a success. Hell, we still could finish top 4, we still could win the FA Cup (even if we won't). We are close, and despite our worst qualities, we will surely end this period of failure soon. We are mad because we want it now, but it will come soon.

I am not calling into question your commitment to the cause over these years RG, because I know you are a true fan who is just frustrated. But this team should not be abandoned now, because it's who we are. We do have it good, we do have cause for optimism if we take a step back. A victory after this will be more sweet than any that you will taste following a team that wins every year, and it is coming. And even if it doesn't, all I can ask is for you to still keep the faith, because faith is what being a fan is all about.

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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by sportsczy on Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:28 am

Would you rather always be second tier or have some glory years and then some bad ones?  That's the question.

I personally find little joy in always finishing high in a table but never in true contention for a trophy.  I don't think that's what a team should be about... and it's not like Arsenal don't have the talent most years.  They just lack that killer instinct.

As a OM fan, I've experienced far worse than Arsenal fans. But truthfully, we never had the talent in many of those years to expect more. So in the end, i wasn't disappointed in the season really. My problem was with management.

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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by Chumlum on Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:41 am

This match was just garbage. Our play was dismal. Allardyce gives me the creeps.

Still, my two cents: life goes on. It's all just a game. If watching Arsenal isn't giving you any of those good feelings anymore and it's all just "blah" & "meh", take a break. Do something else with that time instead.

If the problems are worse and Arsenal matches are causing you to fume and seethe well outside the bounds of match time, if you lose sleep and hypertension sets in, I would suggest there is a more serious problem to examine in one's life.

Football, like any sport, includes values and honored rituals, but at the end of the day this is entertainment. Sometimes the entertainment falls short, and because we're plugged in to some sense of value & ritual too, we resent the spectacle for failing us. But screw it, man, we've got power over its role in our lives.
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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by Twoism on Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:34 am

That's easy for us to say cause we don't spend money to watch live, it's those fans that got screwed over especially the one with season ticket ( no refund). Watching ArsenalFanTV, Arsenal fans from Leeds & Birmingham spent crap loads of money & time to travel every game. That takes its toll if every game is nightmare as our last 4 or 5 away games.

My 1st team is Parma so yeah I understand what's hell and back. The club was top of Europe in the 90s, bankrupted twice and now playing in Lega Pro. I've been sticking my nose to facebook live video & illegal steam for last two years, watching pixel by pixel. I don't even know which player is which cause I can't see shit most of the time. I'm part of the club since I donated 100 buck the last bankruptcy, that's how low the team sank.

But through out all mismanagement, the club willing to change, never stagnant and more importantly get me emotional, invested which is not happening in Arsenal now. You can observe this forum alone to notice it, probably one of the more casual community. People went from hopeful to angry to disappointed but when fans become acceptance or cbf to write a few words to express their feeling about the game, that's very bad. Either they have no feeling at all about the game or they know their feeling about three months ago still stay true & more likely will stay true til the end of the season.  

Funny enough, I've become a fan of Arsenal after that European cup final between Parma & Arsenal in 1994. Parma was playing some of the most beautiful football in the world but I was intrigued by this big *bleep* English wall withstanding wave and wave of onslaught assault. I was sad of course cause Parma defeat but slowly became a fan of this disciplined no nonsense good old English defense. I'm more identified with this grit & steel Arsenal of good old George.

Sorry for the rant but yeah the issue is constant mediocrity, pulling way below our weight. Wengers has all the time and power in the world to fix whatever that is the problem for lord knows how long. He spent money, lots of it, never got anywhere with it. Watching Mustafi, our most expensive defender out there, gave me headache. The club stagnated the so do the fan. The worst part though is uncertainty, be a man come out and say it, not hard thing to do isn't it, that's the least he could do for the club now.
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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by Sri on Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:45 am

@iftikhar wrote:where's Sri???????????

@RealGunner wrote:I am sick of Arsenal for the first time in my life. Back in the days, I'd rather watch Arsenal than attend my dad's birthday party. Now I rather watch 2 girls one cup than watch Arsenal play. Heck, 2 girls one cup has less shit involved than the Arsenal matches.

Sick of this.

Retiring from Arsenal.

I was here when we used to play Squillaci-Silvestre in defence
I was here when Andre Santos made false LB his own position
I was here when we signed park chu young and I was also here when sent him to conscription camp in South Korea
I was here when Wilshere sold us dreams to be the next Pirlo but instead turned out to be the next mark Noble
I was here when Arsene signed Amauri Bischoff and Thomas Eisfeld for our future.


... and I can go on.

I still lurk about once a fortnight to check how the GL-fam is doing, but I haven't watched football in a couple of months now.
And I frankly have way more critical priorities in both my personal and profession lives at the moment to care any more about this. I have disassociated myself from football and rediscovered other hobbies. Wenger taught me to love the game, and he also drove me away from it ironically.

:coffee:
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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by Jay29 on Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:44 am

We are mad because we want it now, but it will come soon.

Will it really? You can see for yourself what the current management is doing to this supposed squad of quality players. Wenger genuinely believes he can fix this and will likely stick around for two more years, but there's plenty of evidence that he's not going to make it better. No other team in the league is going to standby and wait for Arsenal to get their shit together. They're going to keep getting better.

I have severe doubts about how well-placed this club is for success. We're doomed to lose our two best players this summer which is a huge setback considering they were supposed to mark the beginning of a new era. The squad needs a major overhaul; much more than just a DM and striker. GK, CB, LB, RB, CM, RW, a new 10 if/when Ozil leaves, a new LW/CF when Alexis leaves, a new CF in general. People have lost faith in this project and rightly so. It's been a failure. With things the way they are now there isn't much cause of optimism. Arsenal are sliding down the table with a squad that doesn't care (Captain Walcott: Palace wanted it more than us), a manager who's incompetent but has all the power at the club and cowardly board members. That's far from being perfectly placed for success.
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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by Kick on Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:53 am

@Jay29 wrote:
We are mad because we want it now, but it will come soon.

Will it really? You can see for yourself what the current management is doing to this supposed squad of quality players. Wenger genuinely believes he can fix this and will likely stick around for two more years, but there's plenty of evidence that he's not going to make it better. No other team in the league is going to standby and wait for Arsenal to get their shit together. They're going to keep getting better.

I have severe doubts about how well-placed this club is for success. We're doomed to lose our two best players this summer which is a huge setback considering they were supposed to mark the beginning of a new era. The squad needs a major overhaul; much more than just a DM and striker. GK, CB, LB, RB, CM, RW, a new 10 if/when Ozil leaves, a new LW/CF when Alexis leaves, a new CF in general. People have lost faith in this project and rightly so. It's been a failure. With things the way they are now there isn't much cause of optimism. Arsenal are sliding down the table with a squad that doesn't care (Captain Walcott: Palace wanted it more than us), a manager who's incompetent but has all the power at the club and cowardly board members. That's far from being perfectly placed for success.


I have to say, while this is only somewhat comparable, I don't think Arsenal need a major overhaul. If you look at Chelsea last season, many people wanted Pedro, Matic, and Cahill gone, to name just a few. They wanted a squad overhaul when Conte came in, but instead, we had a mindset overhaul and the reward of that is seen in the table. minimal personal improvement with drastic improvement in the table.

I think, if a new manager is to come in, many under performing players such as Bellerin, and Cech will vastly improve. While Alexis and Ozil may leave, you could get away with two replacements and 2-3 other signings and see improvement.

I don't think Wenger can make that kind of mindset change, though.

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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by rincon on Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:04 am

It is unbelievable that there is even a possibility of Wenger getting renewed. I would rather see Arsenal doing better than any other team in the PL not coached by Conte, its a shame.

There are so many problems with the team and the coaching, but the main issue is how no one in the club seems to give a shit. When you reach that point there is no question that people must go. He lost the team, he lost the fans, he lost everything. No one is willing (or able) to fight for Arsenal. Even they make top 4, he has to go.

What happened to self awareness? So many coaches around the world resign when they fail, and so many owners fire them. At Arsenal there is neither, no self aware coach to resign and no ambitious owner to fire him.

Every other top 6 team in the PL tries to improve and move forward except this Arsenal.

@Eman wrote:I'm talking fans of Leeds, of Portsmouth, of Newcastle who have seen their teams at the highest and lowest levels. Fans of teams like Leicester, Juve or Dortmund who have tasted glory only to be fed pure pig shit the following year. How did they keep the faith?


Fans did it because the club repays the faith. Loyalty goes both ways and the club stayed true to their fans' ambition. I would hate it Juve were run like this Arsenal. Even when were in Serie B, the club never stopped trying to get back on top. Back then a group of WC players even stayed at the club to fight it out and bring Juve back, while Deschamps came back to coach us. Would Alexis and Ozil go to the championship with Arsenal? no, because they don't care. Then when we were in mediocrity in A, literally everyone got fired. The team changed from president, to board, to director, to scout, to manager. You have to keep trying to improve and not stagnate and alienate your fans until no one cares anymore.
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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by Jay29 on Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:16 am

@Kick wrote:
@Jay29 wrote:
We are mad because we want it now, but it will come soon.

Will it really? You can see for yourself what the current management is doing to this supposed squad of quality players. Wenger genuinely believes he can fix this and will likely stick around for two more years, but there's plenty of evidence that he's not going to make it better. No other team in the league is going to standby and wait for Arsenal to get their shit together. They're going to keep getting better.

I have severe doubts about how well-placed this club is for success. We're doomed to lose our two best players this summer which is a huge setback considering they were supposed to mark the beginning of a new era. The squad needs a major overhaul; much more than just a DM and striker. GK, CB, LB, RB, CM, RW, a new 10 if/when Ozil leaves, a new LW/CF when Alexis leaves, a new CF in general. People have lost faith in this project and rightly so. It's been a failure. With things the way they are now there isn't much cause of optimism. Arsenal are sliding down the table with a squad that doesn't care (Captain Walcott: Palace wanted it more than us), a manager who's incompetent but has all the power at the club and cowardly board members. That's far from being perfectly placed for success.


I have to say, while this is only somewhat comparable, I don't think Arsenal need a major overhaul. If you look at Chelsea last season, many people wanted Pedro, Matic, and Cahill gone, to name just a few. They wanted a squad overhaul when Conte came in, but instead, we had a mindset overhaul and the reward of that is seen in the table. minimal personal improvement with drastic improvement in the table.

I think, if a new manager is to come in, many under performing players such as Bellerin, and Cech will vastly improve. While Alexis and Ozil may leave, you could get away with two replacements and 2-3 other signings and see improvement.

I don't think Wenger can make that kind of mindset change, though.

I agree to an extent. I think a few of our players would really benefit from better coaching. For example, I'm not going to want Xhaka out because I know he's been greatly misused. And there must be a better defender in Mustafi somewhere.

But we have a lot more issues than that Chelsea team did. You had a title winning squad that simply stopped playing for a manager they hated. Our squad isn't of that standard. Cech has seriously declined and Ospina isn't good enough as first choice, so we need a new keeper. Bellerin has no competition at right back, so we need something there. Monreal is constantly targeted as a weak link and Gibbs provides no competition, so that's a left back that's needed. Gabriel isn't good enough and Koscielny is getting older and more injury prone. Cazorla is 33 and picking up more injuries and Coquelin is average. The boat has sailed on Wilshere and Ramsey. Ox won't develop with us - he desperately needs a new manager. Theo is Theo - we know what we get from him, but we need a winger. Welbeck isn't good enough.

This all before we tackle the issue of replacing Ozil and Alexis.
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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by Kick on Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:46 am

@Jay29 wrote:
@Kick wrote:
@Jay29 wrote:

Will it really? You can see for yourself what the current management is doing to this supposed squad of quality players. Wenger genuinely believes he can fix this and will likely stick around for two more years, but there's plenty of evidence that he's not going to make it better. No other team in the league is going to standby and wait for Arsenal to get their shit together. They're going to keep getting better.

I have severe doubts about how well-placed this club is for success. We're doomed to lose our two best players this summer which is a huge setback considering they were supposed to mark the beginning of a new era. The squad needs a major overhaul; much more than just a DM and striker. GK, CB, LB, RB, CM, RW, a new 10 if/when Ozil leaves, a new LW/CF when Alexis leaves, a new CF in general. People have lost faith in this project and rightly so. It's been a failure. With things the way they are now there isn't much cause of optimism. Arsenal are sliding down the table with a squad that doesn't care (Captain Walcott: Palace wanted it more than us), a manager who's incompetent but has all the power at the club and cowardly board members. That's far from being perfectly placed for success.


I have to say, while this is only somewhat comparable, I don't think Arsenal need a major overhaul. If you look at Chelsea last season, many people wanted Pedro, Matic, and Cahill gone, to name just a few. They wanted a squad overhaul when Conte came in, but instead, we had a mindset overhaul and the reward of that is seen in the table. minimal personal improvement with drastic improvement in the table.

I think, if a new manager is to come in, many under performing players such as Bellerin, and Cech will vastly improve. While Alexis and Ozil may leave, you could get away with two replacements and 2-3 other signings and see improvement.

I don't think Wenger can make that kind of mindset change, though.

I agree to an extent. I think a few of our players would really benefit from better coaching. For example, I'm not going to want Xhaka out because I know he's been greatly misused. And there must be a better defender in Mustafi somewhere.

But we have a lot more issues than that Chelsea team did. You had a title winning squad that simply stopped playing for a manager they hated. Our squad isn't of that standard. Cech has seriously declined and Ospina isn't good enough as first choice, so we need a new keeper. Bellerin has no competition at right back, so we need something there. Monreal is constantly targeted as a weak link and Gibbs provides no competition, so that's a left back that's needed. Gabriel isn't good enough and Koscielny is getting older and more injury prone. Cazorla is 33 and picking up more injuries and Coquelin is average. The boat has sailed on Wilshere and Ramsey. Ox won't develop with us - he desperately needs a new manager. Theo is Theo - we know what we get from him, but we need a winger. Welbeck isn't good enough.

This all before we tackle the issue of replacing Ozil and Alexis.


That is what I said somewhat comparable. Wink

While I'd say Arsenal need a few new players to be champions of England, you can't expect that the first season after Wenger, so most of those things you listed would be long term changes, not changes made all during one summer.

I think your best XI with an addition or two is more than capable of top 4. That, ironically, needs to be the building block. Something which Arsenal have instead of building on, have leaned on for the past few seasons.

Ask any Chelsea fan what their goal was at the start of this season, for this season. They will say, we wanted top 4 with a focus on the title the season after, if all things went well. Arsenal's goal should be the same, so in the short term, players like Ramsey, Gabriel, Ox and Theo need to be kept until the bigger issues are fixed.

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Re: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal (16/17)

Post by urbaNRoots on Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:22 am

What we need is:

- A new owner, this is the first step which means that all the steps below are actually possible. Kroenke keeps hiding and is avoiding the responsibility he has as owner.
- A sporting director, how after all these years the lack of a sporting director at the club shows really how far ahead the board really looks as far as the future goes.
- A new manager, of course.
- A new coaching set up, that means Bould, Peyton, Primorac and anyone else that is associated with Wenger.
- A new academy manager. Our youth setup is a joke with only attacking midfielders having any chance of making the first team.
- A new scouting team, no more Sanogo's and Asano's and Gabriel's and Elneny's but a scouting team that scouts the best talents in the world.
- A nearly new squad, that is replacing stagnating players like Wilshere, Campbell, Ramsey, Walcott, Gibbs, Monreal, Cech, Welbeck, Ospina, Coquelin etc... and then replacements for Alexis, Özil and other potential first team players that want to leave.

It's crazy to think that I'm not even exaggerating but that we actually need all these things to happen if we are to catch up to our rivals.

As all these things are unlikely to happen, you can see that the future is not bright for Arsenal Football Club so we better get prepared for all the shit that will happen in future seasons.


Last edited by urbaNRoots on Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Edited to add a sporting director)
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