Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Kaladin on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:18 pm

Setup as in new partners

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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Luca on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:22 pm

@Kaladin wrote:Setup as in new partners


That's fair and all but it shouldn't impact his ability to defend in 1v1 situations

For example:



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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Kaladin on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:24 pm

I never said it did impact his ability to defend in 1v1 situations

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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Luca on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:26 pm

@Kaladin wrote:I never said it did impact his ability to defend in 1v1 situations


I never said you did
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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:26 pm

'system player' is a wrong and useless expression IMO

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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Kaladin on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:28 pm

@Luca wrote:
@Kaladin wrote:I never said it did impact his ability to defend in 1v1 situations


I never said you did


Then don't quote me

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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Luca on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:30 pm

@Kaladin wrote:
@Luca wrote:
@Kaladin wrote:I never said it did impact his ability to defend in 1v1 situations


I never said you did


Then don't quote me


Why not? The first part was in response to something you said in clarification
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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:37 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:'system player' is a wrong and useless expression IMO
on the contrary it's a good reminder that the perceived quality of some players is the product of their team success.

we keep on comparing players to one another but this is a team game and sometimes those comparisons are tainted by the teams they play for, the style of football etc...

So calling Bonucci a system player is not an insult just a reminder that ultimately he is a defender that was born to the elite off the product of this new era juve defensive prowess. He surely contributed to that success, playing a key role, yet that does not make him the "best" defensive, which is a ridiculous metric anyway.

But Milan are not wrong for signing him, and he just lacks form and confidence to me.

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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Kaladin on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:38 pm

@Luca wrote:
@Kaladin wrote:
@Luca wrote:

I never said you did


Then don't quote me


Why not? The first part was in response to something you said in clarification


Listen, Bonucci has always been a bad 1v1 defender, i am not disputing that, ever since his early Juve days. I knew full well when he came here what to expect, even if i didn't want to admit it. If you want to call him a system player, sure go right ahead, but some of the best players we've seen are system players, Iniesta, CR, Di Maria, Koscielny, Colback, etc

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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Luca on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:52 pm

I don't want to call him a system player because he isn't one. He's an elite defender and he put in world class performances for Juventus and Italy over the last 6 years. Not to mention, we switched to a 4-2-3-1 many times last season with Bonucci being excellent in the back. I think he does excel in a back three but that doesn't make him a system player in my mind. Lots of players do better in some formations compared to others.

He's just on the worst form of his career and on a team that isn't giving him much help.
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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by rincon on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:19 pm

Nothing much to say besides blaming the cancerous atmosphere at Milan. Everyone underperformes there. There is just no platform to succeed at the moment. If successful, eventually a good run of wins and Montella finding a solution for the team will see every player returning to their level.

It's hard to find an outfield player that has actually improved at Milan these last couple of seasons. The only one shining is Suso because his cut in and curled shots move doesn't rely on the team playing well, just his left foot. Otherwise everyone looks worse than they really are.
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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Doc on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:56 pm

Man, so much issues with Milan that can be attributed to Bonucci's lack of meaningful form. Maybe all that has been said can be attributed. Watching him though, he looks absolutely uninspired to a point where I don't blame anyone for questioning his professionalism at Milan.

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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:10 am

I think Nacho is a better 1v1 defender than Bonucci, +1 if you agree

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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Luca on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:11 am

@Mr Nick09 wrote:I think Nacho is a better 1v1 defender than Bonucci, +1 if you agree


Lets not confuse nutella with shit
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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by rincon on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:15 am

@Doc
For as bad he has been, during Milan's collapse since the Sampdoria loss, it hasn't been just the defense dragging them down.

In the 10 games since, they have failed to score in 6 of them. That's were the biggest problem is.

They only scored against Rijeka, Inter (still a loss), Chievo and Sassuolo. They couldn't score against Samp, Roma, Genoa, AEK (twice) and Juve. In 3 of these games they kept a clean sheet but couldn't score so they dropped 6 points in 0-0 matches.

The issues with their play are mostly about the midfield. But in the end from Bonucci to Kalinic, it all depends hinges on the lack of chemistry and crap tactics/lineup from Montella.
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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Doc on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:25 am

I should mention that I'm not solely blaming Bonucci on Milan's woes currently but I agree with your statement honestly. Milan has issues, issues that is not that hard to address but issues anyway. Montella is definitely not the man for the job and some of their player purchases have been called into question...a lot.

However, I personally find that since that same Sampdoria match you mentioned, Bonucci has steadily not actually looked like he could give one or two shits. It was made most apparent after the Milan derby. Do note though, haven't watched much of Milan in EL and the majority are from league play.

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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by rincon on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:36 am

Note that I'm obviously not defending Bonucci's attitude. That's sort of impossible to do as a Juve fan.

The point is that his crap form (and that of the rest of them) is more of a consequence of their environment. Biglia looks like he forgot how to play football but surely, just like Bonucci, his previous career shows his true quality.

From the Juve point of view this is an immediate position to take as De Sciglio is already looking good. He looks like he shook off that "shyness" that stems from lack of confidence that he developed since breaking through in Milan. Allegri even said that they were "recovering" De Sciglio and by now he looks on track to be the player we hoped he would be when we signed him.

If the situation at Milan doesn't improve (I think it will) and they end up selling one of their talented players (young or old), expect them to drastically improve when they leave. To the frustration of Milan fans.
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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Kaladin on Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:10 am

I don't think even a top level coach can get this group to play/work together better than they are, its such a disjointed team where you are gonna have a hard time getting the best out of the players we have. I have said this time and time again, it is a poorly assembled team. It doesn't help that the majority of ours signings are frauds, its a mess that i don't think even Conte will be able to get us out of.

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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Firenze on Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:29 pm

is this the biggest fall-off we've seen in the modern era? you go from being thought of as the best CB in the world to getting abused by Segunda División B quality opponents weekly? It's unheard of.
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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by RealGunner on Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:30 pm

reminds me of montoleader.
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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:39 pm

i would welcome him in Madrid

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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by rincon on Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:47 pm

It's like the Torres case of CBs. That said, it's Milan.
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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Luca on Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:56 pm

Hard to imagine any defender shine on a very poor team

But yes, absolutely unreal drop off

Benatia space jammed his talent as the most likely explanation
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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Doc on Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:58 pm

I think it is Milan and whatever witchcraft is taking place there. If he goes to Madrid or let's say some other top team, I bet he'll be back to form.

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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by S on Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:09 pm

De Sciglio is playing impressive as well

Not a bad swap afterall

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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

Post by Luca on Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:14 pm

Agreed Doc. I think its just been a tough year for him. Losing the CL final was heavy, then he joined Milan for an exciting project and a fresh start and it went about as bad as it could. Combine that with Italy not making the World Cup and his season has quickly been written off as a failure.

I'm sad because I've always been a fan of Bonucci, even when he joined us from Bari and looked completely out of his depth.
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Re: Bonucci is the best CB in the world now hands down.

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