The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

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The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue May 30, 2017 2:02 pm

.. starts today.

Let's watch it unfold.


The decision to fire Tuchel, despite his exceptional performance during the last 2 seasons, smacks of arrogance, self-conceit and delusion.

No other coach would have had this team, full of 18, 19, 21 year old kids, playing this good, and this successful at the same time.

Now Favre is a great coach, no doubt about it.

There's a good chance he's successful, meaning a top 5 finish or even CL quali; and maybe, just maybe he'll do as good as Tuchel.

But I think not. I think they'll go downhill from here, and they'll become like any other 'top' club in Bundesliga apart from Bayern. I.e., anything but top.
They'll become mediocre, inconsistent, internationally irrelevant. They'll be there by 2025.

Last 8 seasons for BVB:

2009/10: League 5th, Cup last 16, Europe -
2010/11: League Won, Cup 2nd round, Europe EL group stage
2011/12: League Won, Cup Won, Europe CL group stage
2012/13: League 2nd, Cup Quarter final, Europe CL Runners-up
2013/14: League 2nd, Cup Runners-up, Europe CL Quarter finals
2014/15: League 7th, Cup Runners-up, Europe CL Last 16
2015/16: League 2nd, Cup Runners-up, Europe EL Quarter finals
2016/17: League 3rd, Cup  Won, Europe CL Quarter finals

They also star the current league top Goalcscorer in Aubameyang with 31 goals, which they of course will sell in summer. Because that's what you do, right?

Last summer they sold 3 absolutely essential key players in Hummels, Mkhitaryan and Gündogan, their coach got them to 3rd place, Pokal win and CL quarters but hey, they fire him.

I predict they'll be out of CL next season, and have at least one season within the next 5 years similar to the current Wolfsburg/Leverkusen/Gladbach conundrum - just going nowhere.

Bad for Bayern. It was good for us to have an opponent worth taking seriously.


Last edited by Hapless_Hans on Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:10 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Tue May 30, 2017 2:03 pm

Realistically it started when they sold Lewandowski, they have had their moments since then but never lived up to the same heights since.

So i disagree it starts today hmm

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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue May 30, 2017 2:08 pm

They did not sell Lewandowski.

So don't even try to be a know-it-all when you don't know the first thing you write about

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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by urbaNRoots on Tue May 30, 2017 2:13 pm

If they continue with this youth project they have going without having the ambition to make the step up they will eventually fall for sure.

It could certainly start with Favre.
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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Tue May 30, 2017 2:17 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:They did not sell Lewandowski.

So don't even try to be a know-it-all when you don't know the first thing you write about


Don't be so pedantic, you know what i mean lol.

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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue May 30, 2017 2:29 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:They did not sell Lewandowski.

So don't even try to be a know-it-all when you don't know the first thing you write about


Don't be so pedantic, you know what i mean lol.

I'm not the one being pedantic.

You're pedantic for replying with "But..but.. I DISAGREE.. their downfalls started then and there" and then the 'then and there' is factually wrong.

So what do you mean then? Because I don't know.

I can expand on my point.
My point is not that it's new that they are a club that loses top players and thus never reaches the level of the elite clubs.

That's not new, you're right. But that's not my point. It wasn't their downfall to lose Kagawa, or Sahin, or Götze, or Lewandowski.
They replaced those, sometimes not quite, sometimes even improved.
Aubameyang has scored more league goals this season than Lewandowski. Overall he has 39 and 40 goals last 2 season as opposed to 42 and 43 from Lewandowski.
That's not a huge downgrade.

They even managed to replace Klopp, which seemed the most improbable task of all.
Tuchel was immensely successful, with immensely attractive football, from day one.

My point is that for the Dortmund board to take this for granted, and fire their overachieving coach because of personal stuff, communicative dysfunction and power struggles, that is the way to go down.

They seem to think that coaches like that grow on trees. They don't. Favre is a downgrade, even if only a slight one.
That 'slightly' less overachieving will make all the difference, is my point. SOMEBODY has to be world class, exceptional, at a club for it to continue to be in top10 like BVB arguably are. Tuchel is. Favre isn't.


Last edited by Hapless_Hans on Tue May 30, 2017 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Unique on Tue May 30, 2017 2:31 pm

so next season they will get cleaned out of all the good players they have.

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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Firenze on Tue May 30, 2017 2:48 pm

Unreal decision to fire a manager that finished behind a newly promoted side and barely above Hoffenheim despite having a far better team on paper. Can't wrap my head around it. It's not like Dortmund can do better than some provincial German jabroni like Tuchel.

Tuchel's Dortmund are not a top 10 club in the world rofl

There are 6 better in the BPL alone. He's had 2 seasons and Dortmund aren't back to being a top side in Europe which is what they're striving for obviously. Don't see any issue here, standard for any top club not named Arsenal.
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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue May 30, 2017 3:05 pm

Stop using the word 'jabroni' please.

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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by footyfan01 on Tue May 30, 2017 4:03 pm

MU is a scrub team - How on earth is it better than Dortmund? Dortmund beat Bayern & won the Pokal, made the CHL Quarters & topped a group which had Real Madrid.

MU will be humiliated by Bayern every game, they're not a team. They defended & played negative football to win against freaking teenagers from a really poor Eredivisie.

As for Tuchel, incredibly poor decision & this is because of a personal feud with Watzke. He should go to a club like Barca, he's a very good coach who is learning & getting better. They lost Miki, Gundogan, Hummels this summer & he got them Pokal, CHL Quarters & 3rd place with a bunch of teenagers !

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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by urbaNRoots on Wed May 31, 2017 11:35 am

L'Equipe and Nice Matin now saying Nice won't allow Favre to leave as "it's too late to find a replacement"

rofl
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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Doc on Wed May 31, 2017 3:23 pm

A club like Barca? A club which stressed out both Pep and Lucho who have been ridiculously successful. No, not in my humble opinion. Tuchel should stay away from a club like Barcelona (and I'm sure Barca would do the same. They have done the same to be frank).

I'm sure he is a very good manager, have no doubts about that but Barcelona isn't a club where you can "try out to see if it fits". It has to compete with two very consistent teams in Madrid and Atletico AND beat them where a draw is very much considered a loss in the league. Where that have to, at least, make the semis of the UCL every year. Where he has to deal with some of the biggest egos in world football, a fan base that rivals Madrid and Utd in ridiculousness and their own media which, suffice to say, ain't no different than Marca.

Is Tuchel ready for that?

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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Firenze on Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:27 pm

I just read that Dortmund are about to agree personal terms with Bosz to takeover as manager @Zigra
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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by zigra on Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:40 pm

Yeah and I guess we're going to sell them Dolberg as well now that we have a 100 year old *bleep* grandpa taking over the 9. *bleep* them all I'm so pissed I have no words left for this shit.
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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce on Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:43 pm

You recovered from losing Emmanuelson and Anita, no reason you can't recover from this tbh.

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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by footyfan01 on Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:40 pm

Dolberg is staying as ST. No.1 & was clearly confirmed by Ajax & Huntelaar was told about being a back-up ST which he himself confirmed will be his role in Ajax !

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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:49 pm

Poor Dortmund, in a time where average joe goes for 40M they lost about 4 players who at least looked World Class for peanuts because of shit contracts.

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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Firenze on Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:35 pm



will be sacked in a year
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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by iftikhar on Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:24 pm

Seems like our gamble with Rodgers.

I have long (so far) resisted the temptation to post in this thread (partly owing to my limited knowledge and time).

However, while I feel the sacking of Tuchel was horrific, Hans's prediction of impending doom might also be wrongly placed. I think Dortmund will go into a temporary slide. But the management will come to their senses and will rectify their mistake.
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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by zigra on Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:19 am

Apparently a major reason for Bosz leaving is that he fell out with several major figures (f u hard Bergkamp) at the club during the season.
Funny that this is the guy to replace Tuchel.
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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by zigra on Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:47 am

Well probably have to take that back, these 4 *bleep* losers are in no way major figures at the club. It just seems the actual important people didn't want to really take one side which drove Bosz out of the club.
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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Robespierre on Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:24 am

The Banter if Frank De Boer come back to Ajax now Laughing
No I don' t wish him to main man Zigra
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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:49 am

Dortmund CEO Watzke has addressed the topic at hand in an open letter.

BVB wrote:Hans-Joachim Watzke has addressed all Borussia Dortmund fans and members in an open letter, declaring: "I've always placed BVB's well-being above everything else."


Dear members,
dear fans of Borussia Dortmund,

we've just finished a season which is difficult to describe in words and can't be reviewed in a few sentences. A season that has affected us very, very deeply. And while it culminated in a great triumph in Berlin on Saturday, there are some things that need explaining. I've therefore taken the rather unusual measure of addressing you directly in an open letter.

The loss of Mats Hummels, Ilkay Gündogan and Henrikh Mkhitaryan; the integration of many young and incredibly talented players; the long-term absence of several players, who as key performers and experienced hands were a key part of our plans at this time of upheaval: these challenges alone would've been enough this season. The clashes at the home game with RB Leipzig soon after the winter break and the ensuing closure of the South Stand shook us. And with the cowardly bomb attack on our team, we were subjected to an experience in the run-up to the Champions League match against Monaco that went far beyond anything we could've imagined. The attacker's aim was to kill the people on board our Team Bus. The greatest miracle and, simultaneously, the greatest gift in the history of Borussia Dortmund was the fact that nobody lost their lives that day. Our gratefulness for that is existential and isn't something we can even begin to compare with the gratefulness we feel upon winning a title.

In light of these events, our sporting performance is all the more remarkable. The 2016/17 season saw Borussia Dortmund qualify for a European competition for the eighth successive year (six of those have been for the Champions League). At the end of the campaign we secured third spot in the Bundesliga with an exhilarating win over Werder Bremen. We reached the DFB Cup final for the fourth year in a row – in itself a record. We brought the Cup home from Berlin and presented it to you all at our victory parade on Sunday. Being able to celebrate such a success with a quarter of a million people lining the streets makes us proud and thankful. It gives us goosebumps. We would like to thank you for that!

Thanks go to everyone at the club who helped us to get through these testing times. Of course, thanks and great respect go above all to our players, who emerged from this situation stronger rather than being crushed by it. This squad has made history. But, and this goes without saying, thanks also go to our coach Thomas Tuchel and his team!

The fact that Borussia Dortmund and Thomas Tuchel are nonetheless parting company has provoked criticism and a lack of understanding from some sections of our fan base. We, the people responsible for the board of management, the club committees and the KGaA, can understand this. With Thomas Tuchel at the helm, BVB enjoyed two successful years in which our sporting objectives were achieved. However, we – Sporting Director Michael Zorc and myself – also did not always see eye to eye with the coaching staff during this period of collaboration. When it comes to leadership responsibilities, it is not the result alone that matters – and in that respect, Borussia Dortmund is ultimately no different to any other sports club or business. What also matters are fundamental values such as trust, respect, the ability to communicate and work as a team, authenticity and identification. Qualities such as reliability and loyalty.

Unfortunately, we no longer believed the current coaching arrangement offered us a foundation for a successful future collaboration based on trust. That is why, following intensive talks and numerous discussions, we ultimately decided the best measure would be not to extend the cooperation with the coaching staff beyond the end of the 2016/17 season.
This joint decision is unanimously supported by all committees within the club and the KGaA. I would like to ask you to understand that we cannot and will not provide any precise explanations either at this stage or in the future. The protection of trust has been a key component of the leadership culture in the more than a decade that I have been here.

For me, it is important to make it clear that this decision was not made on the basis of whether two people could enjoy a beer together or have a game of cards. If we were to trivialise matters in such a way, we would be irresponsible and poor decision-makers. I am also not of the opinion that leadership personnel at a club and a coach always need to be the best of friends. The very special relationship that we, particularly Michael Zorc and I, enjoyed with Jürgen Klopp was never the benchmark by which we judged our collaboration with Thomas Tuchel and it will never be the benchmark for any future BVB coaches.

I would like to ensure one more thing: since I have been working in positions of responsibility at Borussia Dortmund, I have always placed the well-being of BVB over everything else. The same applies for Michael Zorc, Thomas Treß and our President Dr. Reinhard Rauball, as well as the members of our committees. Borussia Dortmund has learned from the failures that took the club to within an inch of bankruptcy in 2004/05. We all analyse our actions self-critically, nobody believes they are more important than the club and nobody puts personal vanities above the interests of Borussia Dortmund.

Your, dear members and fans of Borussia Dortmund, have helped the club through some difficult times in the past few months with your unconditional support. Once again, I thank you for this. I would like to finish by requesting that you continue to place your full confidence in Michael Zorc and myself, as well as all other persons in positions of responsibility at Borussia Dortmund – just as you have consistently done in recent years.

Your Aki Watzke

http://www.bvb.de/eng/News/Overview/Open-letter-from-Hans-Joachim-Watzke-to-all-BVB-fans

kicker has called the Tuchel sacking a 'decision without alternative', apparently the extent to which Tuchel has fallen out with all kinds of people at the club was extensive and beyond repair.

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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by iftikhar on Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:27 pm

kicker has called the Tuchel sacking a 'decision without alternative', apparently the extent to which Tuchel has fallen out with all kinds of people at the club was extensive and beyond repair.
But was he the 'bad guy'??? hmm
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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:39 pm

Bosz confirmed as Tuchel's successor.

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Re: The Dortmund Downfall, or the Bosz Era

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