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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:19 am

Right, that's true. My bad. The clause was only 100m ?

Anyway, still IIRC the way it went was that Atletico were ok with selling him (not via the clause) IF the ban got lifted.
As soon as it wasn't it was clear, they weren't anymore ok with it ovbviously, yet as a compensation for not being able to leave and not raising a stink he got a healthy rise.

So no, I don't think this would make it ok in the eyes of Atletico fans if he moved to their city rivals.

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Post by futbol_bill Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:04 pm

I believe atleti also gave him a substancial pay boost for him to stay. That’s why the fans were angry earlier as it was perceived he was not living up to his wages!

As to him going to Real, you guys seem to think the pact with Perez is broken because of the Theo purchase! That’s not the feeling here. Taking a player not with the big team is quite a different matterthan one of their best.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:49 pm

According to Spanish Radio Eltransistor:
- Madrid understand there is no realistic option to poach Neymar next summer, and will wait until next year.
- Madrid rule out the signing of Harry Kane because they think Spurs asking price will be 200 mil pounds
- Madrid have been negotiating with lewandowski for 3 months and have agreed a deal. They also say that lewansowdki has already communicated to Bayern that he wants out, and Madrid will now begin negotiating with Bayern, which may include James since Bayern have an option to buy in 2019 for 40+ millions.



Cristiano - Lewandowski - Salah/Griezmann hmm
Asensio - benzema- Vasquez

not a bad way to transition about from BBC
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Post by VanDeezNuts Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:22 am

I really don't understand the Lewa potential signing..

Great player don't get me wrong, but he will be 30 by the time he arrives. His stock isn't exactly going to go up. Is he just a stop-gap for 2-3 years until a proper striker presents his self?

Griezmann I understand- can still get some good years out of him, has been beasting LL since Sociedad. He is exactly the type of player you would expect Perez to sign plus he is French so that checks the box for Zidane. Not to mention the relatively reasonable buyout-clause.

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Post by Doc Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:55 am

Not to mention Bayern's now legendary stubbornness in not letting players go they don't deem surplus to requirements.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:04 am

if i have a preference it would be Griezmann, in terms of transition it would be easier i think. speaks spanish, used to playing with a main CF while still scoring quite a few goals, 27 with more years in his prime, no negotiating with another club.
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Post by Adit Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:22 pm

Doc wrote:Thank you Nick. Really was wondering what was this "dribbling" they were talking about. My sig shows the dribbling I know and would rate. While Benzema has great hold up play, I did not know that is considered a "dribble" these days.

Re: Hazard
My thoughts are known. Sideways dribbling, big game no show, small team bully who'll be just an expensive Isco but with way less impact when you need him. A genuinely talented footballer but I really hope we stay the f away from him.

Also, isn't Belgium an attacking team?



It is almost funny.

Since when is at any standard Benzema a dribbler?

A dribbler should be a player who is adept at beating his man consistently.

Benzema dont even beat one defender in most of the game.

These football hipsters are abusing the terms just because they also dont know what the hell is Benzema good at.

I remember Valdano's quote in this occasion.

"if you put a shit hanging from a stick in the middle of crazy stadium there are people who will tell you it is a work of art, it is not ; it is shit hanging on a stick"
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Post by Mr Nick09 Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:35 pm

i dont know why you think you are entitled to define what dribbling means for everyone.

If you think dribbling = beating a man on 1v1, then fine, Benzema is not that kind of player. Others understand it as retaining possession in traffic, which is also a fine description. At the end of the day, you have to nuance everything.

Also, even if Benzema grossly let us down and played below expectation throughout is career, he was still good enough to be a solid contributor to our offense.
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Post by Doc Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:36 pm

That isn't exactly an entitled opinion but more of a common definition of dribbling in football. If peeps wanna call hold up play "tactical dribbling", sure, whatever makes their arguments more sound I suppose.
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Post by sportsczy Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:37 pm

Dribbling means travelling with the ball.  What you guys are describing is dribbling past a player...

Control and hold up play aren't dribbling to me.  Those are different skills.  However, moving with the ball while keeping it away from the opponent and positioning the ball so that you get good angles to make a pass are dribbling skills to me.

Benz, in recent years, has become very good with dribbling the ball and releasing players at the right time.  He's also actually become pretty decent at dribbling past players at times, especially when he's coming at a defender from the left wing.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:02 am

Adit must give some credit to benzema ffs,

did anyone catch Higuain calling himself a top 10 madrid striker all time the other day to hype himself up? he is like 15th lol, pos
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Post by titosantill Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:31 am

i hope management isn't nitpicking strikers to sign the way we are....at that rate we'll get stuck with benzema's nonsense all over again next season and start searching for scraps in the garbage during the winter market

i don't understand why we're linked to hazard when there is willian. in all facets of the game i really do consider willian a better footballer than hazard. and benzema isn't a dribbler, he used to be way back when we first signed him....he's a one-two specialist. that piece of skill against athleti isn't the norm

and while we're at it, those two mistakes from courtois were enough for me not to want him at madrid. that's goalkeeping 101, if you must have your knees apart then have two hands covering and be prepared to lie on the shot so it doesn't ricochet up or away....every one's caught up in dumb stuff like ball at feet that they ignore the basics
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Post by titosantill Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:34 am

he didn't do any better on dembele's strike either, with the time dembele spent in prepping himself to shoot that, courtois had ample time to ready himself for a save....only person from chelsea i'd like is willian....not to mention willian's no slouch when it comes to free kicks
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Post by futbol_bill Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:27 pm

I’m putting up this post with a view of what’s likely realistic in terms of what might happen this summer.

Most of us have stated that we wanted Benz and Bale gone and replaced, as well it was speculated, including myself that Zidane would also be gone.

That was before, we took on and destroyed PSG in CL.

That turnaround as well as Ronaldo getting back his form have changed these scenarios. We may or may not go any further in CL, but we have displayed enough to make a three peat a possibility. Nonetheless, I believe Zidane’s job (and influence) is secure and that also likely means that Benz likely stays.

I do think the club will bring in another striker with likely Benz being a used more in a backup role. They likely also will bring in a new winger, Salah being the most prominent option.

Those are likely the only major changes that will happen!

Which brings us to the team B and what to do with all the kids on squad.

First off the two last minute promotions, Achraf and Mayoral were a mistake. Both are most assuredly gone. Both are young enough that club will likely loan them out or sell with buyback option.

The next mistake was taking so many youngsters on at same time, including the two promotions. rumours are all but Theo might be gone come next season. I don’t agree with Tito that they are all crap, but there definitely are some issues.

Llorente - has appeared too timid in most of his outings, has not won over Zidane’s confidence and has not looked anywhere close to the player we saw last year at Alaves. Given his age, 23, the club is likely to sell him, and given that both Kroos and Kovacic have been used as alternatives to Casemiro, there likely will not be a replacement.

Ceballos, This is where I definitely disagree with Tito. I believe this kid is a gem and he hasn’t done anything to not warrent more playing time. His issue is an overstock of midfielders especially when Isco and Asensio are included. Given both of them really should be starters and yet so do Modric, Kroos and Casemiro. Bottom line is we should have left him at Betis. I don’t see this situation changing next year, unless Isco and Asensio demand to leave. So loaning him out, is probably best for both player and club.

Vallejo - he also initially appeared too timid and he has had the two injuries plus got that red card suspension in Copa play. Bottom line he through his own doing didn’t get the chance to show his worth, although we have seen glimpses of his talent. He therefore will likely be loaned out again and we should expect a more experienced CB to be aquired.

So in sum, besides the Bale departure, we will likely see Achraf, Mayoral, Llorente, Ceballos, Vallejo gone for next season.

Incoming will likely be A CF, maybe lewandowsky, a winger, maybe Salah, a backup to Carvajal, a reserve CB, and possibly Vinicius joining. That makes a squad of 23, which Is a proper number plus there is an opportunity if required for 1 or  2 reserves.

Then there always is the possibility of a GK change!
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Post by titosantill Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:25 am

lol they are not all crap, they can get better, they still have chances to develop at other teams....but stemming from 20th of august 2017 to march 31st 2018 they're crap for the project we have at hand. i actually think mayoral can be decent; maybe not madrid level but alright at a smaller team, provided he has the right support. my theory is that benzema's retched form has really hurt mayoral

if mayoral got a couple of mins here and there he'd have had more than 4 league goals, but when u've got benzema who was on 2 league goals for a long time, and mayoral of all people starts outshining him, it doesn't help benzema's confidence and also hurts the credibility of those who back him, including zidane....so zidane just had to take an executive decision and not play mayoral at all, so as to protect benzema (which has been part of our modus operanda since we signed him way back when. we've protected this guy more than a priceless vase in a house full of 5 yr olds)

if benzema was putting up better numbers i'm sure mayoral may have gotten minutes.....that's just my theory, it's bery possible i'm wrong and maybe mayoral is playing extremely worse than benzema in training and as such isn't getting minutes


Last edited by titosantill on Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by titosantill Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:36 am

i see the word 'timid' being used frequently; and when it comes to youngsters at madrid, when i notice that trait i turn my back immediately, cos this is a club that can be extremely demanding, with fans who are way more cut throat than florentino himself. i'd rather a confident crap youngster than a timid diamond in the rough at madrid.

it's why i hardly criticize lucas vazquez; i've been very quiet when it comes to debates surrounding him...he's nothing special, and whilst he may not have done much to warrant my silence, that pk from 2 yrs ago in the final was what sold me on his boldness. and age wise he isn't young. a lot of these youngsters don't have his confidence and are still wearing huggies; like it or not, we aren't the club to groom them into men.....we have NEVER been that club at least not since quinta del buitre
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Post by futbol_bill Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:55 pm

@tito, when I talk about youngsters purchased to be on this team, I DO NOT include Mayoral or Achraf. Both are obvious not at a level necessary for a club like Madrid and only got their last minute promotions because of the signing failures of Zidane and Flo. I specfically have been talking of Vallejo, Llorente, Ceballos and Theo, and no I don’t agree with you they are crap. Only Llorente seems to not have the necessary talent, however it sure looked like it last year at Alaves. The biggest issue for these kids was it was too much - on Zidane to try to encorporate that many kids in a single year. As it stands now, Theo is the only one likely to remain next year. However as I stated earlier two of them do appear to have the talent, but need much more game time than Zidane is able to give them, so best option is to loan them out and reevaluate in another year or two. Both are quite young so delaying the Real Madrid experience is not a bad idea.

And when you go on about timid, it’s a question of nerves. Any player coming to Madrid, even Ronaldo and Kaka, I can remember has nerves at first. The difference maker is getting over it quickly. Llorente didn’t, or back further Illarra didn’t. I say at this point Vallejo is over it now.
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Post by titosantill Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:54 pm

pros the likes of ronaldo and kaka can get over nerves quickly, them i trust because of their body of work. these children on the other hand- in a league where a draw is equivalent to a loss, and a loss is a crisis; i can't trust. anybody coming to madrid must be ready to give us points immediately. losing the title in november is due to terrible mismanagment of the transfer window. these guys should just go out on loan, and come back when they can provide good competition and get us some points. our window was almost like zidanes y pavones all over again. only in this case it was benzemas y mayorals
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Post by titosantill Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:02 am

i think llorente ceballos and thiago for the sake of their careers need to go out on loan. vallejo can stay as a cb but not an immediate back up, the other 3 should really consider growing first and getting more playing time. the team will reshuffle next season, there's no guarantee they'll get minutes, unless they're okay with warming the bench. loan and buy back clauses have yielded relatively good results for us, arbeloa (before he became crap in his 3rd season), morata, carvajal, casemiro, lucas vazquez for example. i see no reason why we should shift from that to groom these kids ourselves

i'd rather we loaned them or initiated a buy back with a decent european side, and not some scrub teams in la liga. send them to an european club that needs them and can give them minutes, preferably a europa league side or a ucl side in a small market. if they cut it there bring them back and let's see what they can do......we have no time to be experimenting with kids over here, the rivals haven't lost a league game yet
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:34 am

I’m not disagreeing with you, I said all but Theo are rumoured to go. I think the only consideration may be Vallejo. What I have disagreement with you is your statement that they all are crap. I feel only Majoral fits into that category. By the way, 2 of them were already out on loan and deemed by someone that they were ready. That being Llorente and Vallejo. And who is Thiago?? It wasn’t a wholesale change of development, Ceballos was viewed as another potential Asensio (still can be IMO) and thus he was the experiment. the rest were no different than the guys you mentioned and of course, the two last minute promotions don’t count. The mistake was too many kids at once and in the case of Ceballos, it was one too many midfielders on squad.

And Llorente has likely missed his opportunity. He’s not a kid anymore (23). He will likely be sold and will do well with a lower level liga team.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:28 pm

futbol_bill wrote:I’m putting up this post with a view of what’s likely realistic in terms of what might happen this summer.

Most of us have stated that we wanted Benz and Bale gone and replaced, as well it was speculated, including myself that Zidane would also be gone.

That was before, we took on and destroyed PSG in CL.

That turnaround as well as Ronaldo getting back his form have changed these scenarios. We may or may not go any further in CL, but we have displayed enough to make a three peat a possibility. Nonetheless, I believe Zidane’s job (and influence) is secure and that also likely means that Benz likely stays.

Let's get one thing straight, the only way for Zidane to not deserve the sack at the end of the current season is if he wins the CL.

I still haven't forgotten how he lost the league in October and the cup in January. Beating PSG is not enough to ease the anger of the fans, not after the horrendous circus he delivered in the first half of the season. He must win a major trophy this year, there's no other way around it.

oh and Benzema has to go.
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Post by futbol_bill Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:57 pm

I quess you haven't heard?

Flo is saying he has confidence with Zidane for next year and Sports is saying Benz is actually a good performing ‘10’!
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:02 pm

Zidane, the way things are looking now, is almost assured to continue. He will get another chance next season.

Benzema, likewise, wont be going anywhere. Even if we sign another CF we need at least 2 at the club, so he will still have a role in the team even if he is not a n1 option.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:09 pm

futbol_bill wrote:I quess you haven't heard?

Flo is saying he has confidence with Zidane for next year and Sports is saying Benz is actually a good performing ‘10’!

I would be really surprised if he stayed on even with a trophyless season. He would be the first manager ever to have survived it under Florentino's presidency.

But I really hope he steps down if he doesn't win anything and to take that waste of space joke for a CF with him.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:34 pm

he is also the first and only manager with 2 consecutive CLs.

and the players absolutely love him, i dont see him going anywhere
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:55 pm

He's the first manager to ever win the CL two years back-to-back. That's wonderful. But that doesn't give him the right the run this club to the ground.

If he ends up trophyless, he should be thanked for his services and let go. There's no point in keeping him on if it's patently obvious he's no longer capable of winning major trophies.
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