Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by rincon on Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:46 pm

From Allegri's press conference for Fiore.

He says that he must watch today's training session before deciding but that there will be changes. He was ambiguous about pretty much everything, from the system to the the players. The only certainty is that Szcezsny will play.

Howedes is available now but won't start, Max says that he is excited to see Howedes get fit and play. That his characteristics will be useful in playing a back 4 and 3.

Positive comments about MDS in terms of his Barca half and that we had almost "recovered" him but now he is out for 40 days. Licht looks likely to start but won't be able to do so every 3 days so Sturaro might find space there as right back.

Bernardeschi he sees a lot of growth and says that its not too soon, that he could start.

Chiellini could be rested.

Mandzukic, Higuain and Cuadrado. No confirmation. Everyone is fine and fit but the tight schedule makes changes necessary.

It seems like Dybala will play, he didn't say it, but he also didn't mention resting him like he mentioned everyone else.

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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by Luca on Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:22 pm

Two tough matches in a row before a CL encounter.

Thankfully all three encounters are at home.

I think we should definitely be going for a win tomorrow. I'm not expecting a great performance on Saturday but not a loss at home either, either a narrow win or a draw. We really need to get back on track in Europe with a big win.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by Warrior on Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:33 pm

Matuidi has always been like that, he runs everywhere. The style of play won't change, i think he is in his 30s, so his current role is the proper way to get the best out of him.

What constitutes a world-class midfield ?
- technique
- creativity
- ability to protect our ball possessions
- physical presence
- headers
- long shots
- permanent defensive stability

Look at Real Madrid midfield, they have all that. It's a lot to ask 2 players instead of 3, especially if one of them is Pjanic.

In Juve's case, we lack PERMANENT DEF STABILITY. Also we could improve on headers, physical presence and possession holding. Those are the flaws i see, that feeling of incompleteness i was talking about.

Throw in Marchisio/Khedira/Milinkovic-Savic and our midfield becomes world class. Double pivot that includes Pjanic is not how we should play anymore against top teams. (ok now is a special case since we have injuries)
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by Warrior on Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:25 pm

1 is Pjanic. 2 is Matuidi.
3 = Marchisio
4 = Khedira
5 = Sturaro
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* creativity is not only passing skills, i also include offensive anticipation as the capacity to offer solutions in the opponent's zone
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by rincon on Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:23 pm

I don't know if we should ditch this system so easily. With it we got to the CL final just a few months ago.

Allegri has already made it clear that he will be flexible and adapt to the players available and the opponents as always. So we'll see a 3-5-2, 3-4-3 and 4-3-3 at times. Still its hard to see us not using the 4-2-3-1 as the main system this year. Our team is pretty much built for it now.

Pjaca will come back to life at some point and then we'll have 7 attacking players who are all pretty awesome. That needs to be the focus of this team imo.

We've started with all these injuries and yet we are scoring goals with a ridiculous pace. I don't remember a Juve that scored this much. I don't remember exactly but somewhere there was a stat and we have scored more in these opening 4 games than we have in decades. Once the defense and Matuidi settle we should reach a scary level again.

Something that tells me a bit about the progression of the squad is this: 2 years ago we were historically bad because Khedira and Marchisio started the season injured, then it wasn't until Marchisio came back that we left midtable. Now we are without these two players again and we are historically good in terms of scoring and are 4 for 4.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by Luca on Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:28 pm

I think we've realized that the days of winning 1-0 games are dead and dusted. It's attacking quality that's always going to be the great differentiation between two teams. I think Real, Barca and Bayern demonstrate this best. They are no slouches defensively but they are known for their power going forward. I think we are trying to emulate that and that's why the splurge on the attack is just.

The 4-2-3-1 will be fine for about 85% of our matches. I think it's just recognizing when it's not, like away to Barca, despite the result, Allegri had the adaptability to play a midfield 3- two of which were even brand new summer arrivals.

This group is built for a 4-2-3-1 just as the one before it was built for the 3-5-2. My only issue is against top clubs who will play three in the middle. It does disadvantage us numerically alone.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by rincon on Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:31 pm

I think Mandzukic makes up for it. Against Barca last week Mandzukic wasn't there. Against Madrid he was there and was awesome until he was dead from fatigue/injury because he played way too much.

Having a fresh Mandzukic on the left evens out the midfield situation.

If on the right we have a better player than Alves or out-of-form-Cuadrado then we should be golden. I'm waiting for Bernardeschi or Costa to raise the level on that side.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by Luca on Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:57 am

I'd agree, and his grinta is not unappreciated but it does create a somewhat lopsided approach which is overly reliant on a striker, acting as a left winger, playing like a madman on both sides of the ball. Were really lucky to have a player like that in our team.

However, would a quality midfielder like Sergej who would play on both sides of the ball by trade and position not have the same desired impact? But that's a discussion for the future.

I'm hopeful for both Bernardeschi and Douglas Costa. Douglas showed good signs against Sussuolo and Barcelona, his willingness to take on defenders is always a useful trait. Bernardeschi simply hasn't been given enough time to even get a proper look at his capabilities but I know I don't have to convince you brother rincon, our boy will come through.

Tomorrow we have Fiorentina, I think its a weaker team than last season but always a difficult match. I expect a proper 11 and a win. I would not be surprised if we drop points on the weekend in the derby though but we'll see.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by DeviAngel on Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:15 am

I like the discussions great way of leading the Juve section guys. I'll write my 2 cents tomorrow Smile

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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by rincon on Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:30 am

@Luca I agree. I don't mean to solely rely on Mandzukic, this year we have proper attacking and midfield depth. I meant that while Mandzukic is fresh he must play in big games. At least until the team adapts away from it, but for now he is a must. For smaller games and stuff we need to try our other options and let Mario rest and stay fresh.

Of course I would love Sergej. I've been on that hype for a full year now since I've been watching Inzaghi's Lazio. He is not our player so we can't really think of him this season.

Every paper is quoting a few changes for tonight. Sturaro/Licht, Asamoah/Sandro, Bentancur/Pjanic, Cuadrado/Costa/Berna plus Szczesny who is starting and Barzagli/Benatia for Chiellini who isn't called up.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by rincon on Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:37 am

Unrelated, Inzaghi looks fantastic.

Good in small and big games. Won 3 derbys. Got Keita to perform. Got Anderson playing consistently well. Changes tactics really well. Its hard to find players that don't perform for him, a feeling I got from Conte for example, even Estigarribia performed for him.

We might be looking at our next coach hmm
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by Warrior on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:00 pm

It's Sturaro time What a Face

- Against his former club it would be nice to start Bernardeschi, give Dybala a rest.
- The pope Benedikt as well, i want to see him. Licht-Howedes-Barzagli/Rugani-Asamoah is B+ against Fiore.
- Higuain must wake up.
- Deserved for Sczsesny, he was solid last game.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by rincon on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:09 pm

Disco Stu is supposed to start as RB, not in the mid. Howedes isn't fit to start, he just came back to being available to play (from Max).

This is the quoted lineup

Szczesny; Asamoah, Rugani, Barzagli, Sturaro; Bentancur, Matuidi; Mandzukic, Dybala, Cuadrado; Higuain
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by Luca on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:15 pm

@rincon wrote:@Luca I agree. I don't mean to solely rely on Mandzukic, this year we have proper attacking and midfield depth. I meant that while Mandzukic is fresh he must play in big games. At least until the team adapts away from it, but for now he is a must. For smaller games and stuff we need to try our other options and let Mario rest and stay fresh.

Of course I would love Sergej. I've been on that hype for a full year now since I've been watching Inzaghi's Lazio. He is not our player so we can't really think of him this season.

Every paper is quoting a few changes for tonight. Sturaro/Licht, Asamoah/Sandro, Bentancur/Pjanic, Cuadrado/Costa/Berna plus Szczesny who is starting and Barzagli/Benatia for Chiellini who isn't called up.


Agreed brother rincon, a fresh Mandzukic is a match up nightmare for the other team. I just think more in terms of balance and last season I feel it was a solution because it was a matter of fielding the best 11 and working around that, where in others, like how the 3-5-2 was born was utilizing the squad composition. Last season we went with a two winger formation focusing predominantly on Cuadrado and Mandzukic, whom is not even a winger. Its a bit of invention which shows the adaptability and creativity of Allegri.

@rincon wrote:Unrelated, Inzaghi looks fantastic.

Good in small and big games. Won 3 derbys. Got Keita to perform. Got Anderson playing consistently well. Changes tactics really well. Its hard to find players that don't perform for him, a feeling I got from Conte for example, even Estigarribia performed for him.

We might be looking at our next coach hmm


He's doing a masterclass with this Lazio squad but lets remember that its a very good team too, they're underrated in a lot of ways but I firmly believe in his ability as a manager. He dismantled us in the Super Cup, did even worse against Milan, managed to win in the EL from behind after fielding a poorer 11 than he's used to, very good manager.

@Warrior wrote:It's Sturaro time What a Face

- Against his former club it would be nice to start Bernardeschi, give Dybala a rest.
- The pope Benedikt as well, i want to see him. Licht-Howedes-Barzagli/Rugani-Asamoah is B+ against Fiore.
- Higuain must wake up.
- Deserved for Sczsesny, he was solid last game.


Bernardeschi getting his first start against Fiorentina of all teams would be pure banter from Allegri, so it'll probably happen.

I would be happy to see some Bentancur too, he was quite good against Barcelona, very composed for the most part (a couple of poor fouls).

Allegri holding off of Bernardeschi/Douglas Costa is completely due to tactics in my opinion.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by Warrior on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:22 pm

Impressive coaching display from Simone Inzaghi. If Lazio finish the season between 3 and 5 he can be coach of the year. They have an entertaining team and some top clubs will lose crucial points against them.

Sturaro as RB must be a funny joke. For the rest it's a good starting squad.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by Luca on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:24 pm

Sturaro at RB makes sense, with MDS's injury he may be our starting RB in the CL for a couple games at least.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by Warrior on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:29 pm

Classic beer league scenario where you play the worst player in the team as a full back.

Lichtsteiner, even Cuadrado are better options imo (i am not up to date about injuries)
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by rincon on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:57 pm

Licht is too old to start every 3 days and be good. That's the reason Allegri gave.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:23 pm

I can't fault him tbh I've been converting hard working mids to full backs on FIFA since like FIFA 11 as there's about 6 good full backs in the game at any one time.

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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by rincon on Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:40 pm

Sturaro is officially the new Padoin I guess.

Second good game in a row from Cuadrado. Great from Mandzukic. Super impressed by Bentancur. A 20 yo that comes from Boca and plays like this right away :bow:

Pjanic continued his godliness when he came on even if it was only for a short time.

Matuidi was nice. Apparently he actually had 100% passing accuracy.

Higuain :facepalm:

Dybala marked closely all the way.

Its great to beat Viola with second choice mids and fullbacks.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by Luca on Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:44 pm

It kind of bothers me that Bernardeschi only gets these 10 minute cameos each time, why not 25-30 minutes?

I feel like Allegri does this to break down player's mentally so he can shape them to his wishes Laughing
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by rincon on Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:54 pm

I thought he looked good, he always seems exciting to watch.

Lets hope he can start vs Torino or Olympiacos.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by Warrior on Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:06 am

MANDZUKIC
DOUGLAS-DYBALA-BERNARDESCHI
PJANIC-MATUIDI
SANDRO-HOWEDES-RUGANI-LICHT
BUFFON

i want to see this vs Torino...
- we should priorize this derby over the CL match
- give Bernardeschi a real test
- too many injuries, i expect the double pivot
- idk about how fit Pope Benedikt XXI is, Benatia is a nice option as well
- Higuain deserves to be benched
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by rincon on Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:16 pm

From the offical site, Howedes had some muscle pain in his thigh during training and will undergo tests. He probably isn't ready to start yet. Chiellini is back. Everyone else's situation hasn't changed.

For me

Buffon; Sandro, Rugani, Barzagli, Lichtsteiner; Matuidi, Pjanic; Mandzukic, Dybala, Bernardeschi; Higuain

Then rest Mandzukic vs Olympiacos and play Costa and Cuadrado.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by Luca on Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:35 pm

Has Allegri said anything in terms of Bernardeschi's progression? I would love to see him start and I know it will happen sooner rather than later but I'm not sure if it will be on Saturday in the derby.

Cuadrado is in form, I think we'll see the same front four again and Pjanic starting next to Matuidi and I agree with the back four too- Sturaro was poor against Fiorentina, Asamoah also had a quiet game.

Sad to see the criticism against Higuain but it isn't totally unfounded, I hope he finds his form soon.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

Post by rincon on Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:36 pm

Yes, Allegri keeps saying that its good and that he sees a lot of growth. Before the Fiore game he said that it wasn't too soon for Bernardeschi (meaning he was ready) but that he had to see the last training session and make some decisions.

Sooner or later we'll see him start matches regularly.
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