Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Luca on Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:00 pm

Fair enough, well that can only happen in one of two ways: he resigns or he is fired.

It would be an abysmal season for him to be fired, which I don't see happening.

There would have to be a compelling reason for him to resign, that remains to be seen.

I hope he stays. I like him as a manager and a person. We can't really talk about changes of scenery when we change 5-6, often core players, each season. Also, this could be the last of Buffon, Barzagli, Lichtsteiner and others.

We are transitioning as we speak.

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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:27 pm

It's simple really, unless our investments reflect what a true clubs should with net spend our squad will decline, and our core is old and regressing.

I give it until 2020 until we're arguing whether or not we're a top 8 team unless something changes in the next couple of Summers.


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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by sportsczy on Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:41 pm

Juve needs to make a statement. Give a true elite contract to Dybala and have him stay. That will attract better players as the project will then look elite.

There aren't enough top class Italian players to rely solely on that as the core, which has been Juve's model since forever. Time to change a bit imo.

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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:43 pm

Said it for ages, currently the only players we can lock down for as long as we realistically want are Italians. But the current crop are mostly shit so it's a bit pointless.


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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:46 pm

Oh and the way we approach these games, even when we win, Higuain is useless. It's not his fault, we play to none of his strengths.

The only type of attacker suited to the way we play big games are the rapid, energetic types. I.E the type of strikers we typically never attempt to buy.

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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Luca on Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:51 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Juve needs to make a statement. Give a true elite contract to Dybala and have him stay. That will attract better players as the project will then look elite.

There aren't enough top class Italian players to rely solely on that as the core, which has been Juve's model since forever. Time to change a bit imo.


He renewed his contract in April and makes only less than Higuain on Juve. I think his contract is fine. He showed again tonight why there is still room to grow and I don't believe in trying to build through one player. Quite frankly, it's never been our style.

Dybala for me, is still a bit suspect. You can't always play a great game but you can't be so anonymous in matches.

@Tomwin Lannister wrote:Said it for ages, currently the only players we can lock down for as long as we realistically want are Italians. But the current crop are mostly shit so it's a bit pointless.



How so? We signed only two Italians this summer for 7 signings in? On top of that we sold one of the most prominent.

This is a non existent agenda.

Our 11 tonight featured 3 Italian players?!

Stop playing these games with me Tom.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Tomwin Lannister on Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:04 am

Lol wat

I'm saying the Italian players we can keep are not worth buying I know we're not doing ItalJuve

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Studying about those good ol' days and who shall wear, the starry crown gooood lawd. Show me the waaaaay.

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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Luca on Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:19 am

@Tomwin Lannister wrote:Lol wat

I'm saying the Italian players we can keep are not worth buying I know we're not doing ItalJuve


Sorry tom, completely misread what you had said Laughing

I think not many clubs can simply retain players, its a problem larger than Juve, especially in today's market. As prices being more ludicrous, and buyout clauses being more prevalent, that's surely the case.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by juve_gigi on Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:37 am

Well that didn't go as planned to say the least.

What do you expect though when you have Benatia, Barzagli and Sturaro in your back four plus a not fully fit Sandro?

I'm hoping this is the last time Allegri uses Sturaro as a RB and the last time either Benatia or Barzagli start over Rugani. The smart move today would have have been to sub in Rugani for De Sciglio and move Barzagli to RB or to play a back 3 and go 3-4-3. Lesson learned by Allegri.

At least we got the hardest game out of the way. The rest of our CL games this round will be much easier. Dybala wasn't actually that bad, he just wasn't as dominant as the last few games. Higuain gets zero service every game. I wasn't impressed with Matuidi. He could have easily been given two yellows for different fouls. He looked slow out there.

Injuries to Chiellini, Mandzukic and Marchisiso hurt the most as well as De Sciglio during the game. This game proves again that we need a world class midfielder. Sergej needs to be a top priority next summer. If we want to stay as an elite team then we need to spend the money. $40 million for a player in today's market is peanuts. If we want a world class player like Sergej we will have to fork out $80 million.

Anyways I'm not too pissed as we had tons of injuries and this was our toughest game in the CL this round. Let's see what happens in the rematch.

Also I'd like to see more of Bernardeschi. I think he can be an elite player and work magic with Dybala and Higuain. Much better than Costa I think. I hope Allegri gets him into the starting lineup sooner than later.

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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by rincon on Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:55 am

Talk about an overreaction. Half of the starters are injured in the fourth game of the season. It's impossible to call at this point. We are just getting started.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Warrior on Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:54 am

Not the end of the world but a crap performance still. These *bleep* better stop eating pasta at half time of CL games, Juve look like fools every time, embarrassing.

MDS was surprisingly good today.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Andrew on Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:52 am

This team's potential is over the roof. I hope I am not the only-one in here that saw this. It's not quality we lack, on the contrary I believe our roster is packed. It's chemistry and cohesion we lack, the usual missing ingridient at this point of the year for the past few seasons. Last night we were predictable in attack only because our wingers haven't been integrated to the team yet. Our game was from Pjanic to Dybala to Higuain or Costa and vice versa. Once the team is tuned and firing on all cylinders we will be a steamroller of a team.

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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by rincon on Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:02 am

Agreed. Things have to be figured out and they will come in time. Once the guys gel and everyone settles it will be even more beautiful than before.

I couldn't watch the game last night so I don't exactly who played bad (all of them?) But it doesn't really matter much. Going to the Camp Nou at this stage with half of the team injured vs an in form Messi can result in this.

Going by positions, if you removed Pique, Semedo, Busquets, Rakitic, Dembele and Suarez how would Barca look?

This Juve will be awesome, we already started with 3 wins and 10 goals.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by juvealbanian on Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:20 pm

We lost because we had two guys in the center of defende who were not supposed to be starters this year and the year to come.We had Alex Sandro in a bad form and 4 new players starting against Barca (De Sciglio , Bentancur , Costa , Matuidi)

We had so many players unavailable and looking at our bench there was clear we couldn't win it.Yet we had some good chances.

And the most important we lost thanks to Messi's brilliance, it was his day. Besides Messi there was no other player that was a threat for us , he did his thing against a poor defense.

I'm pretty sure we have lots of potential to improve.
We should make sure Costa and Berna adapt and gel with the team, that way the pressure wont be over Dybala and Higuain only.I've seen some good signs from both our new wingers and I'm pretty sure that once they get used to play with their new team we would rock, we are scoring a lot more in Serie A already.

Next we have to make sure Rugani steps up his game to the point when we can start him and feel safe.He is quite good and it's about time he starts some more matches.
De Sciglio also wasn't that bad, by playing more he will become very important.Matuidi looks like has played for us before, despite being limited technically he's playing good.
With Marchisio and others back we can easily beat Barca home. I'm very optimistic despite the 3-0 loss.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Warrior on Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:41 pm

Agreed juvealb Thumbs up

@rincon wrote:
I couldn't watch the game last night so I don't exactly who played bad (all of them?) But it doesn't really matter much. Going to the Camp Nou at this stage with half of the team injured vs an in form Messi can result in this.



Classic Juve loss: Buffon doing his job, rest of the team doesn't show up.

Don't be fooled by those troll threads in the General Section. Most players were underwhelming, in first half i'd say Pjanic, Dybala had some moments and De Sciglio was solid. For 2nd half everybody switched off and it was Messi dancing tango with our defenders.

Sturaro played right back.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by sportsczy on Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:17 pm

That's how football is. You always have a player or two missing. Madrid played all of last season without Bale and also worked through injuries by Modric, Casemiro, Varane, Ramos and Carvajal.

To start the season, we're missing Ronaldo, Ramos and Varane... and now Benzema (better off lol).

Barca has fullbacks that can't defend and a soft midfield. They're nowhere near the team they have been. Dembele is a raw kid too.

PSG was full strength yday... but have had to deal with long stretches without Silva, Marqhinhos, Verratti, Motta, Di Maria, etc.

That's just how it goes. Of course, you're going to lose most likely without some of your good players. But you shouldn't look the way Juve has in the CL Final and now against Barca. I think Madrid figured something out in the CL Final and others teams are now going to copy it: Namely, pressure Juve in the midfield and against their fullbacks, which forces the CBs to play conservative + the strikers now need to come back and support the midfield (which they haven't done well).

Allegri needs to adjust in these games and he hasn't. Plan A won't always work.

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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Warrior on Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:49 pm

Zidane must have watched the Juve-Milan, Juve-Inter of autumn 2016 and kept it in mind. That's how they beat us.

Not a big deal yesterday, there are reasons that explain the defeat but no need to overthink. Some might categorize those "reasons" as "excuses" and that's fair on them.
Football clubs are made of humans and their level of performance is not 100% immutable, Real Madrid is the only one to be perfectly consistent since Zizou took over, bravissimo for your last 18 months.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by rincon on Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:54 pm

See? This is a load of crap as usual. You say Madrid is missing some players, ok, and we see how Madrid already failed to beat 2 scrub teams in La Liga. And that's not even close to what we missed, more than twice the amount of regular players. You can't miss most of your team and not feel it.

Then the other part, "Allegri needs to adjust in these games and he hasn't "

Doesn't get further away from reality than that. I know you mostly don't watch the games from this, but I would you hope you at least check the lineups. All Allegri does is adapt and change things.

Let's see, a different module was used for this game, then a different one for the CL final, then a different one for the Barca semi, then a different one for Bayern, then a different one for Dortmund, then a different one for the other Barca final. Not only different tactics but very different lineups. You can fact check that but I think you know that I will be right.

Because of course, how can Allegri not adapt, when most his team that played the Barca semi or the Madrid final earlier this year is unavailable.

It's lazy criticism.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Warrior on Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:58 pm

Allegri could not adapt yesterday because we had Primavera dudes on the bench, that's one of the "reasons" i evoke earlier.

However i do think he is sometimes slow to adapt during the games. Sturaro as a right-back was not the smartest move for example.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by rincon on Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:01 pm

It wasn't to you Warrior, it was to sportszcy.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Warrior on Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:03 pm

BUFFON
BARZAGLI-RUGANI-BENATIA
MATUIDI-BENTANCUR-PJANIC-SANDRO
DYBALA-HIGUAIN-DOUGLAS

in my opinion, this was the proper way to cover the loss of De Sciglio (feels strange to say this)

i know it was not after me but i felt the need to precise my thoughts
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Luca on Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:06 pm

Doesn't have much to do with adapting as brother rincon said.

We got hit on three counters. We were far too slow in the middle of defense particularly and Messi coming downhill is the most difficult thing you can defend against.

Allegri's press conference was clear. He didn't sugarcoat a thing, nor did he blame the personnel available or unavailable. We played a good enough 40 or so minutes, we didn't take or make good enough chances and then after 1-0 when it was time to be compact, we got hit twice more on counters.

Its better to have a defeat like this now then in March or February, that is the only silver lining.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by rincon on Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:26 pm

Let's take a look. Player's unavailable:

First and second choice right backs (MDS and Licht/Howedes)

First choice CB (Chiellini)

First and second choice CMs (Marchisio and Khedira)

First choice RW and first choice LW (Cuadrado and Mandzukic)

Going to a full strength Barca away, yes let's blame Allegri for not adjusting Laughing

I'd like to see Madrid try to do better without Carvajal, Nacho, Ramos, Kroos, Modric, Bale and Cristiano. Fail, and then we can blame Zidane for not adjusting.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Luca on Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:28 pm

Can't really count Lichtsteiner as unavailable, but rather excluded.

Howedes is another story having joined us so late into the window, his exclusion is more just.

Lack of faith in Rugani did us in of course.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by rincon on Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:38 pm

Yeah probable. Soon he will be an undisputed starter. He is already the player we have given the most time to in Serie A in the whole squad.

I'm glad to hear MDS was solid. Apparently his injury isn't serious but I guess he won't play vs Sassuolo. I look forward to seeing him improve.
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Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Champions League Winners Thread

Post by Warrior on Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:24 pm

Higuain could face a 1 match ban for that stupid middle finger at Camp Nou. Like we needed this, we don't have enough starters unavailable...

Should perform instead of being frustrated.
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