Zidane is a poor coach

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:13 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:It's pretty clear why Tuchel hasn't taken over a new club yet.
nothing clear about that at all.

the reason why i mentioned Lopetegui are the following:
- he is a madrid man, someone from the club
- has experienced, coaching from castilla, Spain, youth and senior, and porto
- already coaches most of our spanish players at NT
- spanish if that wasn't obvious
- student of positional football
- has clear ideas, and implements them in the teams where he coaches: high pressing, and possession games.
- JUEGO DE PUTA POSICION POR FAVOR

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Hapless_Hans on Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:23 pm

Tuchel gives you better juego de posicion than any of your Spanish impostors.

However the Zidan obituaries are far too early.

Guy has won everything in very little time. A bit RESPEKT would be appropriate, and also his luck will return, I have no doubts about that.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by sportsczy on Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:37 pm

You want respect from an arrogant, entitled and front-running fan base like this one? You know better Hans. You're a Bayern fan ffs... you should know exactly what it's like.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:49 pm

@sportsczy wrote:Zidane will be as good a coach as Laurent Blanc... why?  Laurent Blanc manages the games, the egos and the motivation.  The details of the preparation and tactics are handled completely by his right hand man, Jean-Louis Gasset.

All you need is to follow that model.  Blanc had a vision and a philosophy... he asked Gasset to implement it while he took care of the rest.

Deschamps does the same... his guy is Guy Stephan.

Who could that person be?  There are a lot of options.  Since he's french and studied in France, i can see Zidane bringing in a bench of Makelele (to be the liaison with the players) and Hans-Dieter Flick (Germany assistant manager since 2006).  


sports, i dont understand why you disagree with anything i say about Zidane, that's your own post in 2015, calling him a clueless tactician who only focus on man management. Stating he will hire someone to take care of the tactical side of the game.

that post, is everything i have been saying about him since he was with Castilla. and his castilla team was pretty shit.

http://www.goallegacy.net/t35983-zidane-to-manage-castilla-in-the-2014-2015-season?highlight=zidane

for fck sake you went as far as saying that it was Benitez deciding what tactics his castilla team would play as a way to shield him from criticism, lmao.

so please dont go around insulting a fanbase you are part of because some of us are not drinking the Zidane cool aid. I am not against Zidane, i am against all managers like him who need to hire someone to do the tactics for them. that's damn near buffoonery , shameful stuff.

most of his tactical experiments have ended in failures, 352 one time lol, double fullback, what else has he tried? this is not acceptable.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:58 pm

You need to cast aside your emotions and understand that, while we're extremely grateful to Z for all the trophies he has won for us, we're honest enough to admit that his success have little to do with his tactics and everything to do with his man-management skills and the talent of his devoted players.

The guy won us two CLs back-to-back, how could you even think we're not grateful to him? What we're absolutely against though is to sit silently and watch him run this club to the ground through an endless stream of bad decisions. A stream of bad decisions that resulted in us being 10 points behind the table toppers in mid-November.

You can't expect to hoard any sympathy from the Madrid fan base when you insist on playing a lethargic, utterly useless Benzema every single time. You can't expect us to be sympathetic after you sell Morata and Mariano, replace them with Mayoral and trust Benzema as your sole CF for the season.

He had all the time in the world to strengthen the squad in the summer or at least keep it as strong as it used to be. Instead, he stuck with injury-prone Bale and Benzema hoping that they would magically turn into prime Messi and R9 respectively. That's textbook arrogance, carelessness and/or plain naivety.

So please don't confuse our criticism for ungratefulness. But when you make those grave mistakes, don't be surprised to see the criticism come raining down on you, especially at a club as demanding as Madrid.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Doc on Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:14 pm

@titosantill wrote:here we go again, lopetegui is now the fancy new kid on the block that can manage this side lol

Lopetgui isn't a new kid on the block. He actually is a highly regarded manager in Spain. Not that I would choose him for Zidane but him being mentioned makes sense.

I wouldn't call it arrogance questioning Zidane and Nick's position on Zidane has been pretty clear since 2016, hell, since Castilla. Anyway, Zidane is doing shitty things that having folks other than just Nick questioning his ability which, once again, if this continues, it's gonna get him fired. I personally would give him a year leeway because of what he won but I don't run Madrid affairs. Obviously.

And what is Hans doing here? I see you, you rat bastard. You trolling us again?!

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Turok_TTZ on Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:56 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:It's pretty clear why Tuchel hasn't taken over a new club yet.
nothing clear about that at all.

the reason why i mentioned Lopetegui are the following:
- he is a madrid man, someone from the club
- has experienced, coaching from castilla, Spain, youth and senior, and porto
- already coaches most of our spanish players at NT
- spanish if that wasn't obvious
- student of positional football
- has clear ideas, and implements them in the teams where he coaches: high pressing, and possession games.
- JUEGO DE PUTA POSICION POR FAVOR

Some of this could be said the same for Rafael Benitez. the same guy who you also thought was good for Real Madrid. except Benitez had a bigger CV.

Tell me Nick... Remind me how successful Benitez was as Real Madrid coach?  smoking

@Doc wrote:
@titosantill wrote:here we go again, lopetegui is now the fancy new kid on the block that can manage this side lol

And what is Hans doing here? I see you, you rat bastard. You trolling us again?!
Please don't go down this path. We don't need this sort of nonsense here.


Last edited by Turok_TTZ on Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:59 pm

Benitez has no clue what juego de posición is, so no the same can't be said about him lol

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by titosantill on Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:02 pm

what i meant by fancy new kid is we (Real Madrid fans) are always throwing out one fancy too cool for school type coach's name out there to be hired to implement some next level "tactical" break through (which never happens, cos they come to madrid, and the politics and pressure makes them look ordinary).....some have now become 'un-cool' that nobody is shouting their names anymore.

once upon a time people on here were talking about how the likes of klopp tuchel (some even campaigned for rafa lol), will bring some tactical breakthrough. but i guess those two are no longer the cool kids on the block cos of their teams' recent
"adventures"
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Turok_TTZ on Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:05 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:Benitez has no clue what juego de posición is, so no the same can't be said about him lol
Correct on that point. Didn't argue the rest though. That's what I thought. bounce
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:06 pm

How is that any different from any fan base talking about any player/coach ever?

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:07 pm

@Turok_TTZ wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:Benitez has no clue what juego de posición is, so no the same can't be said about him lol
Correct on that point. Didn't argue the rest though. That's what I thought. bounce
because i proved you wrong already, you called them the same, they are not. end of

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:09 pm

Hands off Lopetegui, we need him on our NT.
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Turok_TTZ on Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:12 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:
@Turok_TTZ wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:Benitez has no clue what juego de posición is, so no the same can't be said about him lol
Correct on that point. Didn't argue the rest though. That's what I thought.  bounce
because i proved you wrong already, you called them the same, they are not. end of

Except you haven't. But keep being obtuse. smoking I can't spell everything out for you.

@futbol_bill wrote:Hands off Lopetegui, we need him on our NT.


Spain actually has a chance this time around. hopefully they don't get injuries.
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Doc on Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:22 pm

@Turok_TTZ wrote:
@Doc wrote:
@titosantill wrote:here we go again, lopetegui is now the fancy new kid on the block that can manage this side lol

And what is Hans doing here? I see you, you rat bastard. You trolling us again?!
Please don't go down this path. We don't need this sort of nonsense here.

The path of giving a poster some banter who I clearly have a great forum accord with? Also, from my understanding, you ain't a mod here so no idea where that came from.

@Tito
Well, I get that but Julien ain't no hipster Pep wannabe talking about the positioning and formation and the stars. He is a good coach, knows what he can or cannot do. I wouldn't replace him with Zidane, I actually don't want to replace Zidane. I just want him to stop doing maddening things...


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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by titosantill on Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:51 am

we need players, and that's my biggest criticism of zidane, he should have seen that we needed talent, there's no excuse for thinking that all of a sudden bale who is getting older would become the fittest guy around or our modern cf will all of a sudden at the snap of a finger would give 30 goals and 40 assists lol. he needs to smell the coffee;

i don't think we need any of these "revolutionary" managers at madrid, unless they're bringing in their own players that they've groomed from scratch, their like has always tended to rub the leaders of the squad the wrong way and have ended up being run out of town.

we won back to back UCL's (which isn't easy to do. so called great tacticians never did it) without any tactical chess match type play. the solution is simple, keep the players hungry with proper competition. and that's the biggest mistake zidane has made, not tactics or a lack of tactics. it was downright naive, and at this level, its a mistake that cannot be swept under the rug
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by sportsczy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:19 am

It stuns me...  but do you guys really think Zidane decides on transfers?  With Flo here??  Yeah, he gives his opinion.  But at the end of the day, his job is to support whatever decision Flo makes.  Bale and Benzema are both Flo's lovechilds.  

Publicly, Zidane (and any manager) MUST say that they love the squad and everyone on it UNLESS Flo tells them to help grease the way for a sale or a purchase (like with Mbappe).  

After these many years, I just don't understand how Madrid fans don't understand how Madrid functions under Flo and how meaningless words uttered to the media truly are. They don't say things to be truthful. Every word is engineered to fit the agenda of the club at the time, truth be damned.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Doc on Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:30 am

Yeah I'm not gonna pretend he has control over transfers. I'm also not gonna pretend he does not have a real say in it either. The club fked up by thinking a has been forward, an absolutely injury prone player and a legend who every year is getting less effective were gonna suffice for an entire footballing season.

And yes, "the club" includes Zidane.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by sportsczy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:42 am

At the end of the day Doc... there is literally no question he wanted Mbappe no matter what.  Similarly, there's no question he wanted Pogba the year before.  Now, we have not felt the impact of missing out on Pogba to date... but we will.  Mbappe's non-signing has been felt immediately unfortunately.  Players like this don't grow on trees.

I do feel that he stay too loyal to players to a fault...  but I also think that's why he's able to control the locker room.  I honestly don't think you can have it both ways with Real Madrid.  Too many divas.

A couple of people mentioned to me that a player he really really really wants is Dele Alli.  That's one of his big requests for the upcoming summer.  He wants a physical and offensive minded CM and he feels that Alli is the next best thing to Pogba right now.

I feel that Modric' days at Madrid may be numbered.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Doc on Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:50 am

Losing out on Mbappe was absolutely unfortunate and I could live with that. We fed up lose out on players for various (and sometimes stupid reasons). My only beef is the fact that after Mbappe, that was it. Nothing. Not even loan deals. Just kept the front 3 and hoped for the best. And for a club like Madrid, that's just wrong.

Re: Delli Ali, um, I have real mixed thoughts on him. Sometimes I think he is legit good, sometimes I think he is legit overrated.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by titosantill on Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:04 am

you know what i've never liked about a lot of our managers? do everything flo asks, rather than go by their instinct which though risky might yield results. then when things go bad and they're fired, they come out to say "well the president never listened to me" or "i said we should not have sold such and such, but the president refused". queiroz ancelotti (it was really unbelievable to me when he did that) pellegrini all did that. only mourinho held the president accountable whilst he was there

i don't want to believe zidane is going that route and had NO say in what was going on. i refuse to believe that. as a matter of fact, despite his being new to the field i think flo respects zidane more than most of the managers he hired.

my theory is that after winning back to back UCLs, he wanted to keep the squad happy, and whilst he may have wanted a forward, once flo couldn't on his end tie up a deal for a cf, zidane might have been like well, we can still ride out with this team. both are culpable imo. but let's see how it goes, zidane just needs to make a bold move with regards his selections for some of these guys to get it together.....
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by sportsczy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:25 am

I just feel Modric is on the wrong side of the age curve... and his performances are slowly starting to show. Would rather replace him a year too early than a year too late.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Luca on Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:34 am

I’ve been hovering this topic for some time now. I feel like there’s a lot of merit but also that Zidane is being scapegoated because it’s easier to blame and replace a manager than it is to replace a group of players.

I think it’s hard to blame Zidane for how poor the play has been from players never expected to be as bad as they’ve been playing. It’s one thing for Benzema to be off form, but can anyone honestly expect Cristiano Ronaldo, of all players, to deteriorate overnight?

Maybe a new manager will do something in the short term, I mean that’s how Zidane got the job initially and instantly became a revelation. Now he’s the problem, just a couple years and a bunch of trophies later? I think Zidane still has upside and it’s a name that carries so much weight among players.

It might just be time to replace some of the old guard.
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by titosantill on Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:31 am

@luca, i agree
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by vanDEEZ on Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:49 am

@Luca wrote:I’ve been hovering this topic for some time now. I feel like there’s a lot of merit but also that Zidane is being scapegoated because it’s easier to blame and replace a manager than it is to replace a group of players.

I think it’s hard to blame Zidane for how poor the play has been from players never expected to be as bad as they’ve been playing. It’s one thing for Benzema to be off form, but can anyone honestly expect Cristiano Ronaldo, of all players, to deteriorate overnight?

Maybe a new manager will do something in the short term, I mean that’s how Zidane got the job initially and instantly became a revelation. Now he’s the problem, just a couple years and a bunch of trophies later? I think Zidane still has upside and it’s a name that carries so much weight among players.

It might just be time to replace some of the old guard.


I think a lot of people agree with you. Overall there are a lot of problems and our poor form since preseason has really highlighted it. On one hand we have older degenerating players (Ronaldo, Modric to an extent), injuries (Bale, Carvajal), and obvious flaws (Benzema), on the other hand we see these flaws all the more clearly because of our massive motivation issue (this one is on ZZ), and an over reliance on "trusted" players in bad form, and a bad system (again on ZZ and his damned Zidiamond).

The lack of vision and tactical clarity has a lot of people looking at ZZ, which is fair, but there are a lot of issues that will not be solved by hiring a new manager. Guessing how much influence ZZ had to fix these issues, like transfers in and transfers out, is really impossible to say. As much as some want to pretend to know how the upper echelons work at RM, we don't see all the moving parts and we definitely don't know what is being said/done behind closed doors.

For me, I give ZZ the benefit of the doubt. I still believe he is a great man manager who has the ability to turn this around and get something out of this season, even if that something is just a solid foundation for next season.
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Nivash on Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:34 am

So ZZ has no control over transfers because Flo regime does as Flo regime does, but at the same time Flo regime couldn't be convinced to add another attacker? The same Flo regime that had an ideal lineup consisting of attackers in basically all positions (Beckham at RB even)?

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

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