Zidane is a poor coach

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Nivash on Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:34 am

So ZZ has no control over transfers because Flo regime does as Flo regime does, but at the same time Flo regime couldn't be convinced to add another attacker? The same Flo regime that had an ideal lineup consisting of attackers in basically all positions (Beckham at RB even)?

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by sportsczy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:01 pm

Flo didn't want to pay Mbappe's wages because we now have some sort of wage table...  the older players would apparently feel slighted if Mbappe was making more than them.  The transfer fee itself wasn't the big issue.  That's the story.

I think it's just an excuse by Flo because we definitely broke any seniority wage structure when we signed Bale. In the end, Flo didn't want to splash the cash. Personally, I think the cost of the new stadium has had an impact on our quiet recent mercatos.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Valkyrja on Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:22 pm

@Nivash wrote:So ZZ has no control over transfers because Flo regime does as Flo regime does, but at the same time Flo regime couldn't be convinced to add another attacker? The same Flo regime that had an ideal lineup consisting of attackers in basically all positions (Beckham at RB even)?


That happened when we were the richest of the bunch. we are not close to that now from what I've seen.

Sadly I think that we won't be able to compete with the likes of Yanited, Citeh, QSG in the next years. We simply don't have the money, that is my opinion

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:23 pm

@Turok_TTZ wrote:
@Doc wrote:
And what is Hans doing here? I see you, you rat bastard. You trolling us again?!
Please don't go down this path. We don't need this sort of nonsense here.


Thanks Turok for standing up for me. @Doc has been getting away with bullying me far too long.
That's the thanks I get for confiding in him and telling him privately that my last name is Radbustard. Hans Radbustard. Not 'Rat Bastard' ffs.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by futbol_bill on Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:44 pm

Here he goes again with his poor Zidane crap.

Zidane has more say in transfers than any other coach at Madrid. ... why because Flo respects him. Even during Mourinho's time, he asked Zidane what he thought of different potential purchases.. i.e. Varane. Mourinho broke the mold as to coaches having a significant say in signings and it if anything got greatly extended with Z.

Flo has changed greatly during this second rein and his major consideration in purchases is budget. There most definitely has been a salary ladder at Madrid, always has been and always will be. When Bale came in, he was paid according to his projected value. Behind Ronaldo, but right up there with the other top players. That isn't breaking the structure as both Mbappe and Pogba would have done. Keep in mind that Pogba was also demanding beside the exorbitantly transfer price and salary, a major change to image rights that even Ronaldo does not have.

So to get back to the issue at hand, sure Zidane asked for both of these guys, but it was the costs that they were demanding that was the problem. Also you have to recognize that it was Zidane saying the lineup was great and he only wanted to make minimal changes to backup spots and only change the starters if a better option could be found, at a reasonable costs.

It was Zidane who expressed no confidence in Morata and let him go. Whose idea was it not to go after Mbappe until Morata (and Mariano) were sold? Remember Zidane saying very clearly that Mbappe would only fit in, if Bale were to be sold. You can blame the entire lack of a plan B on Zidane.

Sports has been playing this poor Zidane story for a couple of years now, but there is no evidence to suggest that Flo is ignoring his requests.

and now he resorts to blaming the new stadium costs. The stadium is obviously going a lot slower than initially projected and no doubt costs may have gone up. But the slowdown is far more due to the state of our economy than anything else. When the Pogba deal fell through, that Capital money went towards the stadium, something that Sports was trying to say would end up in Flo's pocket. And as he says himself above, it wasn't transfer prices that affected these potential deals, it was salary demands. They are two completely different budgets! The salary is out of operating budget while transfer prices and stadium renovations are out of capital budgets. For a guy that has a financial background, it's surprising how little he knows about financial costs.
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by sportsczy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:08 pm

that was your biggest bunch of incoherent drivel yet... congrats.

I was trying to make the forum entertaining by talking about Flo, the self made billionaire, pocketing chump change from Real Madrid.  I was obviously trolling lol.

My point is that the wage structure excuse is being used so that Madrid doesn't have to say that they have capital commitments elsewhere and cannot spend outside a certain financial envelope.  Madrid has an image of being able to buy whatever player it wants whenever it wants.  From a perception standpoint, you can't come right out and say that such and such player were just too expensive for you.  You find other reasons (salary structure in this and other recent cases).

Also, any half arse manager will always say that he loves his team and his players... and will only want changes if it makes the current team better....  which is what ZZ said.  So he praised his current team while leaving the door open for improvements.  The improvements didn't happen so OF COURSE he said that his current team is exactly how he likes it.  What else is he supposed to say???  looool.

Mourinho is the only manager that could control transfers at Madrid because it was in his contract.  He had the power to veto deals.  Nobody else has had that kind of power before or since.  If Zidane really had Flo's undivided attention for all these years, Hazard, Pogba, Martial and Mbappe would all be here.  None of them are.  The only one that we got was Varane.  That has been the tangible extent of his influence... and that was because he talked Mourinho into it and Mourinho forced Flo because he could.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by futbol_bill on Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:24 pm

So good of you to acknowledge that your posts are trolling to make the forum entertaining.
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Doc on Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:20 am

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Turok_TTZ wrote:
@Doc wrote:
And what is Hans doing here? I see you, you rat bastard. You trolling us again?!
Please don't go down this path. We don't need this sort of nonsense here.


Thanks Turok for standing up for me. @Doc has been getting away with bullying me far too long.
That's the thanks I get for confiding in him and telling him privately that my last name is Radbustard. Hans Radbustard. Not 'Rat Bastard' ffs.

Hahahahahaha, hahahahaha, thank you Hans. Had a genuine hearty laugh...now stop trolling us -_-. I see you.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:18 am

@Doc wrote:now stop trolling us -_-. I see you.


Never.
Who's going to stop me? MODS?
BUahahahahahaAHAHAHA!

Now I have had a hearty laugh.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Nivash on Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:14 pm

@Valkyrja wrote:
@Nivash wrote:So ZZ has no control over transfers because Flo regime does as Flo regime does, but at the same time Flo regime couldn't be convinced to add another attacker? The same Flo regime that had an ideal lineup consisting of attackers in basically all positions (Beckham at RB even)?


That happened when we were the richest of the bunch. we are not close to that now from what I've seen.

Sadly I think that we won't be able to compete with the likes of Yanited, Citeh, QSG in the next years. We simply don't have the money, that is my opinion


You mean the same Real Madrid that placed in the Top 3 of the Deloitte Money League?
https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/pages/consumer-business/articles/deloitte-football-money-league.html

The same Real Madrid who had a stronghold on the #1 spot for 11 years??

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Doc on Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:05 pm

Zidane, duh wrote:"The team suffered, but football is like that," Zidane said. "There is very little I can explain, I can just say we deserved our win, and to pass to the final. The first half was very strange, with so many chances, but not scoring.

"But this is football, and the good thing was we had 45 minutes to change the game, staying patient, knowing we would have more chances. That is what I told the players at half-time, and that is what we did with Cristiano's first goal. We know that in football you do not win things easily. I said that before the game too."

"No -- not at all," he said. "Karim did not score, but he is playing well, moved well today, created many chances, he and Cristiano. But the ball just did not want to go in. I am disappointed for him, as he wanted to score, but we must not get down."
I bet I can help him explain why we are struggling.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by guest7 on Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:43 pm

TBH we hit the crossbar like 10 times or something we missed alot of chances
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by sportsczy on Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:21 am

Today was the 712th day of Zidane's tenure...

2 CLs
2 CWCs
2 UEFA supercups
1 La Liga
1 Spanish Supercup

That averages to 1 trophy every 89 days so far.

84 wins, 21 draws, 10 losses... 306 GF (roughly 3 a game) and 114 GA (roughly 1 per game).

10 losses... 8 trophies lol.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Thimmy on Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:11 am

I won $200 from a scratch card last week. My girlfriend told me I was lucky to get that particular scratch card. "Scratch card?", I said. "Who exactly was it that bought the scratch card?". I'll tell you, it was me. The scratch card won because of me! pirat

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:27 am

@Sports,

Benzema

3 CLs
2 CWCs
2 UEFA supercups
2 La Liga
1 Spanish Supercup
top 4 CL strikers all time

Is it fair to say that Benzema, in view of his recent achievements, is the best strikers since Ronaldo Luís Nazário de Lima, and de facto the greatest french striker of all time?

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by sportsczy on Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:15 pm

Again, straw man fallacy.  I know the combined IQ here isn't all that high... but that doesn't even work for them Laughing

Amazing how Zidane is the luckiest manager in Real Madrid history... and really world football history since nobody has won back to back CLs...  All luck.  He should just stay home and let the wins and trophies happen all by themselves.

Heck. it's the biggest tally since Miguel Munoz who left in 1974.  We've had the longest string of unlucky managers known to man over the past 25 years!!!

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by futbol_bill on Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:34 pm

Nicely done, when losing an argument resort to questioning everyone else’s intelligence. That’s a Chad strategy.
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:39 pm

Amazing how Benzema is the luckiest player in Real Madrid history... and really world football history since nobody has won back to back CLs...  All luck.  He should just stay home and let the wins and trophies happen all by themselves.

Heck. it's the biggest tally since the inception of the champions league.

please answer the question, Is it fair to say that Benzema, in view of his recent achievements, is the best strikers since Ronaldo Luís Nazário de Lima, and de facto the greatest french striker of all time?

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Doc on Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:12 pm

Whether or not you believe Zidane is a good coach or not, that is a hell of record. Well done. Get wingers for your Zidiamond though.

Then again, my IQ ain't that high (Sport), I don't have the right education to understand Benzema's role in the team (Turok) and I am a sheep (Chad).

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:22 pm

You forgot the rofl
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:27 pm

Not to mention the: this forum rofl

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Doc on Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:32 pm

I gots no issues with Sports hitting me that talk, we've been agreeing and disagreeing for years now. Chad saying I'm a sheep is probably true but I definitely couldn't stomach Turok telling me I didn't understand Benz's role in the team. That triggered me so much.

Also, I know a few of you guys think Zidane's coaching ability is as good as your own but let's appreciate the fact he has won us so much in such a short space of time.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:48 pm

Wait, Turok isn't another account created by Chad? For the very few discussions I had with him, he almost immediately fell back to verbal violence and insults and couldn't handle even the slightest Benzema criticism. He was so reminiscent of Chad that I stopped taking him seriously three posts in.

Anyway, to circle back to the main topic. Doc, I think everybody does appreciate all the trophies he has won for us, but I'm sure you'll agree with me when I say that doesn't and shouldn't give him a free ride to do as he pleases.

The rough patch we've been going through could've been easily avoided had he strengthened the squad and started picking his starting eleven based on merit and not on bias and nepotism.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by sportsczy on Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:10 pm

@Doc wrote:I gots no issues with Sports hitting me that talk, we've been agreeing and disagreeing for years now. Chad saying I'm a sheep is probably true but I definitely couldn't stomach Turok telling me I didn't understand Benz's role in the team. That triggered me so much.

Also, I know a few of you guys think Zidane's coaching ability is as good as your own but let's appreciate the fact he has won us so much in such a short space of time.

Wasn't referring to you Doc...  Quite the opposite.  I was hinting that Nick is insulting people's intelligence with that post of his.  Was sarcastically saying that people's IQ on this board isn't that high so that logic of his will likely convince most (being sarcastic is hard to pull off on a message board and I obviously failed here lol).

I can understand people preferring different tactics or lineup choices... but saying that luck is the main reason for winning 8 trophies in 712 days including back2back CLs and a La Liga is just unbelievable.


Last edited by sportsczy on Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:15 pm

@sportsczy wrote:
@Doc wrote:I gots no issues with Sports hitting me that talk, we've been agreeing and disagreeing for years now. Chad saying I'm a sheep is probably true but I definitely couldn't stomach Turok telling me I didn't understand Benz's role in the team. That triggered me so much.

Also, I know a few of you guys think Zidane's coaching ability is as good as your own but let's appreciate the fact he has won us so much in such a short space of time.

Wasn't referring to you Doc...  Quite the opposite.  I was hinting that Nick is insulting people's intelligence with that post of his.
it's you that is insulting people's intelligence because you are incapable of arguing about his quality without listing the trophies that he won.

So if anything, i was using your logic. if everything comes down to trophies, then Benzema is the best modern CF since Ronaldo isn't he?

If he is not, then there might be something else, maybe not statistically, or related to a trophy count that differentiate players?

If you understand that, then go post zidane trophy list in his appreciation thread, because when you do it here, you are essentially telling us, "stop complaining about Zidane, so long as he is winning trophies"

Well, let's stop complaining about Benzema so long as we are winning trophies

edit: and i have never once argued Zidane is winning only because of Luck, that's Hans lol

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:28 pm

Logical fallacy

Zidane's job is literally to win trophies, Benzema's job is to score. The former does his job but the latter doesn't do his. Nobody would havd a problem with Benz if he scored

Sport has every right to mention Zidane's trophies. Why wouldn't he? That's basically why he is our coach. Like DoC said you can hold him accountable for bad choices including blind faith in certain players and not strengthening a certain position but to disregard all his trophies because you have nothing to counter it with is just absurd

You go to great length to try and ram down your opinions down our throats. Just like in that other thread. First your opinion has always been that Casemiro is not good enough to this team now that ZZ is being credited suddenly he was always Xavi and ZZ was just lucky to come across him. I get it you don't like any of our players; Carvajal is shit, Casemiro isn't good enough, Kroos should be benched, Ronaldo should be sold, Navas is shit etc etc. That's just from the top of my head
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