Zidane is a poor coach

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by halamadrid2 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:28 pm

Logical fallacy

Zidane's job is literally to win trophies, Benzema's job is to score. The former does his job but the latter doesn't do his. Nobody would havd a problem with Benz if he scored

Sport has every right to mention Zidane's trophies. Why wouldn't he? That's basically why he is our coach. Like DoC said you can hold him accountable for bad choices including blind faith in certain players and not strengthening a certain position but to disregard all his trophies because you have nothing to counter it with is just absurd

You go to great length to try and ram down your opinions down our throats. Just like in that other thread. First your opinion has always been that Casemiro is not good enough to this team now that ZZ is being credited suddenly he was always Xavi and ZZ was just lucky to come across him. I get it you don't like any of our players; Carvajal is shit, Casemiro isn't good enough, Kroos should be benched, Ronaldo should be sold, Navas is shit etc etc. That's just from the top of my head

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:38 pm

You are wrong, Benzema's job is to be productive in helping the team to win trophies. he has no requirements on his contract to score goals. it's not written anywhere, that's just your expectation as a fan.

So by that logic Benzema is helping this team win trophies and we have been on a binge lately. But despite the team winning trophies, if you refuse to think of Benzema as one of the best attacking players in the world, then dont hold me to the same standards with regards to Zidane.

And no i will not apologize for having an opinion and for being ready to argue what i believe.

the rest of your post is straight horse ass so no need to dignify it with a response.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by sportsczy on Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:49 pm

Again, I love differing opinions... that's what we're here for.  BUT, to disregard fact by pawning it off on "luck"...  that's where i draw the line.

Do you need luck to win?  Sure you do.  But the tough part is to put yourself in a position to have luck come your way.

Every winning manager is lucky.  But when someone is consistently lucky... can you call it luck anymore?

Since he started, ZZ we win our games 3-1 on average. And we've won our share of big games. By no means do we pound on inferior competition... if anything, we tend to play too relaxed and make things interesting in games we should be winning by a big margin. Despite that... 3-1. That's too large a margin to pawn off on luck.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by sportsczy on Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:54 pm

This coming classico will show a lot in regards to the current level of the team.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:56 pm

where is it that i put his achievements down to "luck" only?

straw man fallacy u said? lol

you just can't help yourself can you? you just want to throw his stats at us. I never ever want to hear you complain about Benzema, i will throw you his winning stats in the face to.

Because somehow we can get into th nitty gritty of why Benzema is not good enough for Madrid anymore, but for Zidane we only need to see his winning stats to be convinced, lol

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by sportsczy on Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:09 pm

It's a team game lol.  Benzema could have sat on the bench for 8 years and not played and he'd still have all those trophies.

That's why your argument sucks.

A manager gets rated based on the the team's results.  So the team's win/loss and trophies supported by the team stats are the critiria.

An individual players gets rated by his individual contribution first...  and in the case of a 9, personal stats and individual impact on the team, regardless of wins or losses, are the criteria.  

You can have a great player on a shit team (great example is Zidane himself on some of those galactico teams)... and shit players on great teams (Benz and Bale currently... and many many others).

You logic isn't even logical ffs.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:34 pm

you are the same guy that argued that benzema's role in madrid is different from typical n9 because the prime scorer is Ronaldo, so he can be rated on other things, such as the way he facilitate the ball flowing through the offense, his positioning creating space for others, the accuracy of his passes etc...not just goals and assists.

So benzema has been a key cog of this flowing offense that has seen us rack up trophies in the past 3-4 years, why do you want him to stop being a part of that? I can also argue that this is a team sports, not tennis. why are we looking at individual performances if the unit works so well.

And no, a manager does not get rated just on wins or losses because Zidane would have never gotten this Madrid job if we were just looking at CV. he could not even get castilla promoted to segunda division, two years in a row flopping in playoffs. If we were making decisions only on wins/losses, he would have never gotten this job, but i guess the decision to hire him was made considering other factors...

you know what, you are the one that thinks people are simpletons on this board. I am actually surprised you have not thrown the fact that you played "youth football in cannes" as a reason why you are so knowledgeable and we are not. This arrogant on this place i have rarely seen. You conveniently move the cursor from one discussion to the next to justify your arguments.

I will ask the question plainly, since Zidane won back to back European Cups, which no one has done in years, is he the greatest coach the world has seen since Sacchi? please dont chicken out and give me a straight answer

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:23 am

Still no answer uh? i asked two questions, 0 answer. i thought the second one was pretty straight forward.

I will ask the question plainly, since Zidane won back to back European Cups, which no one has done in years, is he the greatest coach the world has seen since Sacchi? please dont chicken out and give me a straight answer

please Sports, answer this question

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Doc on Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:40 am

Obviously not the greatest manager since Sacchi and not even he was the greatest manager to ever since.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:14 am

not for you to answer Doc, go away.

there is a consensus around Sacchi though, he is an historical point very few can argue against.

the lesson here, because Sports will chicken out from giving a straight answer, is that everything is nuanced. Winning trophies do not make you the best, and vice versa. Yet at the same time you need trophies to validate greatness.

the point of any sports discussion, ever, is to discuss those nuances because we are all more or less sensible to them. That's why i can say Di Matteo is a shit coach despite winning a miracle CL. Pocchetino is a modern quality manager despite not coaching the best players or the biggest clubs, etc...

It's convenient to just look at how many trophies Zidane is winning and to refuse to look at everything that got him there, including the best squad we have had in 25 years, that had already won la decima before him ffs. But for Benzema? no no no, it doesn't matter that he is CR n1 wingman, he is shit, he stinks, we are winning record CLs and trophies in spite of him, he could go to the bench he doesn't matter.

please be consistent with your train of thought it's embarrassing.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by titosantill on Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:22 am

every coach wins because of the talent though, including sacchi, that's why he hardly succeeded after milan. coach rides the coattails of the talent not the other way around, and managing personalities is just as important as tactical set ups. our solution imo isn't complex, we've seen our mess ups this summer, we absolutely can't fall for that again....but with madrid, who knows.

anything but a win against the rivals leaves us in a mighty precarious position. as even with a win its very difficult to pin your hopes on the deportivos malagas and sociedads of this world to get points off barca and us not drop points.
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:31 pm

We have had the poverty 352

the poverty double left back shenanigans

now we have the Kovacic man marking messi like a dog

i dont know how many examples you guys need before you understand that tactically this guy is complete shit.

he is getting carried by our best team in like 20-25 years.

anyway, i will continue to say it, he is a noob
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:03 pm

14 points behind, 4th in la liga behind the likes of valencia.

3-0 classico lol at home

tactically schooled in second half by valverde.

the pep talks can only get you so far, all those managers that only pride themselves as motivational speakers, that shit dont last.

my question still here for you to answer

I will ask the question plainly, since Zidane won back to back European Cups, which no one has done in years, is he the greatest coach the world has seen since Sacchi? please dont chicken out and give me a straight answer

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:17 am

We are in january, we are 18 point behind Barcelona and out of the copa.

my argument was always this world class team had carried Zidane to 2 CLs in a row. he should be eternally thankful this amazing group of players fell into his lap, because frankly he is not showing more aptitudes as a coach than say Paco Jemez.

the way he has let this season slide into mediocrity is a sign of a young coach as mole said, who does not know what he is doing and is learning on the job. and the slide started during the 2016/2017 seasons, Ramos just single handily pushed it back months and kept us alive. His 2 CLs now look more like Luck than anything, and it's sad.

anyway, he will resign from Madrid because Zidane getting sacked is a poor PR look for Madrid.

I hope they are already working on hiring new management.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by titosantill on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:36 am

every coach who wins gets carried, you need talent hardwork and a deep squad. the squad should have also carried rafa and carlo before him. zidane got too confident and put his faith in this depleted squad and got kicked in the ass. our 2 ucl's was FATE not luck, same with la decima, fate. what i don't get is zidane's thought process; seeing how our depth facilitated us last season, he felt we could do well with a depleted squad  and back ups from mid table and lower sides, i can't understand that for the life of me. he needs to write a book to really explain how or why he trusts some people on the squad

anybody would mess up with this squad...however, zidane does have to take responsibility for us having this squad to begin with.


Last edited by titosantill on Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Doc on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:37 am

Tuchel would be most common sense hiring I feel. A good coach, unemployed and since he tried his hand with Sevilla, he is obviously looking for work.

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Re: Zidane is a poor coach

Post by Mr Nick09 on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:38 am

I like Sarri a lot too, just keep Pochettino where he is

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