Our next number 9 - thread

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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by Valkyrja on Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:44 pm

Freakin Perez he had one job to do. keep morata, sell BB and buy Mbappe. :facepalm:

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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by futbol_bill on Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:25 pm

Hey Nick, looks like your wish is coming true!

Being reported today that Madrid has made the decision, based on Mariano’s performances this season to exercise the buy back option to bring him back next summer. Also reported today that Kepa is refusing renewal offer (again, this time they uped the amount), with the intent to come to R. Madrid next summer.

So with Vinicius likely to come next summer plus Mariano, the backups positions are being filled. Just need a starting CF and a secondary striker, likely the season after if Ronaldo hangs on one more year.
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by sportsczy on Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:10 pm

Mariano is not really Madrid quality... and I like what he does at Lyon. For those who follow Ligue 1, he's basically a younger version of Bafe Gomis.

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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by futbol_bill on Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:01 pm

What exactly is Madrid quality?

You repeatedly make these statements yet these ‘not Madrid quality’ Morata and Mariano have as good or better numbers than your favourite phenom and well above the incumbent has been that supposedly has an overall game that makes up for him not able to hit the broad side of a barn door.

Pure and simple we need players who can put the ball in the net. At this stage with Benz and Bale being absolutely useless and Ronaldo aging right before our eyes, we need 4 players that can score, whether you feel they are Madrid quality or not.

Besides I’m sure Mariano coming back is not to replace your countryman, but rather replace Majoral. Similiarly, Vinicius coming will not be as an instant starter. So bottom line we still need our next “9” and likely another SS when Ronaldo does depart.

All of this however depends on when your man Z recognizes the problem and gets rid of Benz and Bale.
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by sportsczy on Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:28 pm

He'll only be a glorified poacher. He can't create for others or move wide if necessary... he's only effective when he's straight down the middle. That's fine if you have a 10 or AM behind the CF. But when you have CMs with the profiles we do and the current version of Ronaldo... the CF has to be able to do more than just be a CF. Just how it is.

Technically, Mariano is very limited... much moreso than even Morata.

As far as not being "Madrid quality"... a player has to be able to function at a talent level that's compatible with the others. Adebayor, Morata and Chicha are recent examples of players that just couldn't do that. Doesn't mean they're bad football players... but they don't have the minimum level of class to work on our team.

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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by Valkyrja on Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:18 pm

How the heck Morata isn't good enough for us when we've had mister modern striker creating space and linking up for the past 3 years

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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by Doc on Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:03 pm

Yeah, I don't buy the whole "Morata ain't Madrid quality" nonsense. It is that same shitty thinking that have us in this quandary in the first place. The young man very much is Madrid quality and had to prove it (off the bench numerous times) and yet, we sold him without any equal or greater replacement. Instead, we have a shitty French "striker" whose best days are long gone and a Welshman who can't even play 5 games in a row without getting injured.

I would say though that from the 4 Lyon matches I watched in Ligue 1, Mariano is a bit limited but I'm glad he is scoring and improving. Hopefully he gets better as the seasons go by.

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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by futbol_bill on Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:49 pm

@sportsczy wrote:He'll only be a glorified poacher.  He can't create for others or move wide if necessary...  he's only effective when he's straight down the middle.  That's fine if you have a 10 or AM behind the CF.  But when you have CMs with the profiles we do and the current version of Ronaldo...  the CF has to be able to do more than just be a CF.  Just how it is.  

Technically, Mariano is very limited...  much moreso than even Morata.

As far as not being "Madrid quality"...  a player has to be able to function at a talent level that's compatible with the others.  Adebayor, Morata and Chicha are recent examples of players that just couldn't do that.  Doesn't mean they're bad football players...  but they don't have the minimum level of class to work on our team.


Sigh, so much wrong with this.

First off we are talking about a potential backup. We want someone who can come off the bench when the starter CF is struggling. Call him a poacher if you will, but that’s exactly what we are missing right now. But you must know he’s more than that. Take a look at his numbers, they are as good as the phenom you keep raving about and are you disagreeing with Nick about his off the ball movement.

Second - what do you call Isco and Asensio on this team? They are exactly the AMs you say we need behind the CF.
You keep referring to being able to play with Ronaldo. Don’t you recognize the obvious? Ronaldo is rapidly declining. If we had someone who could score, the over reliance on him would change overnight. IMO, Ronaldo has maybe one last season with us. This entire thread was who is the next ‘9’ for us, post Benz, post Bale and post Ronaldo.

Third, you say Adebayor, Morata and Chicha are examples of players not Madrid quality. They all had to play behind your pathetic countryman because he couldn’t accept the competition. And all of them were effective when they got called upon, those very rare occasions. You including Morata in this list when he was already miles better than Benz is a joke. I won’t even bother debating with you on this as that ship has already sailed.
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by sportsczy on Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:31 pm

AM/10 play right behind the CF.  AMs playing wide... are AM's playing wide.  It's a space management issue.  If you have a poacher with 3 CMs, the middle poses no attacking threat from a buildup perspective.

In a way, that's our problem right now.  CR has gone poacher and Benzema's creativity in tight space has gone missing (like the rest of his game really).  There is literally little to no danger coming down the center.  Everything has to be generated from the wings.

And no, Morata was given chances to start at Madrid and couldn't take it.  He was fantastic as a sub... but he didn't want to be a sub (and rightly so).  Conte has 3 CBs and Kante to handle all the defensive duties almost...  the other 7 guys all attack.  So Morata doesn't really have to worry about having to be involved in things he's not good at.  Good situation for him.  When Kante is out and Chelsea have to play a more traditional way, it becomes more complicated for him as he doesn't have that extra midfield support.

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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by halamadrid2 on Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:21 am

I don't know whether Mariano has improved on the ball at Lyon because he was abit clumsy when he played here. But he's always been hungry in the box and you can easily tell from the amount of goals he has scored so far at Lyon. No point mentioning Morata now, because he's left and when somebody leaves like that they dont come back. But he is definitively Madrid quality without a shadow of doubt

Kane is another one of those guys with little skills on the balls, I'd rather we go for someone who has some quality on the ball. We don't play in EPL, these LaLiga defenders will read you like a book if you have such little skills on the ball. One of the reasons Bale struggles so much.

We need goals, so Andre Silva can stay were he is lol. How many goals does he have right now? Must be less than Asensio.

The best candidates from today's markets are Icardi, Belotti and Kane and they all come with weaknesses, we've just got to choose whose weaknesses we are willing to look past
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:44 pm

@futbol_bill wrote:Hey Nick, looks like your wish is coming true!

Being reported today that Madrid has made the decision, based on Mariano’s performances this season to exercise the buy back option to bring him back next summer. Also reported today that Kepa is refusing renewal offer (again, this time they uped the amount), with the intent to come to R. Madrid next summer.

So with Vinicius likely to come next summer plus Mariano, the backups positions are being filled. Just need a starting CF and a secondary striker, likely the season after if Ronaldo hangs on one more year.
forgive me if i dont really believe that news because it's not reported anywhere on the big sites and besides, we dont have a buy back option for Mariano, Lyon made that clear few weeks ago

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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by titosantill on Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:36 pm

everyone including mariano needs to be very careful on this one. he should ask himself, if he's going to get chances or if he's returning just to get benched, because that's very realistic. now on the other end, as nick mentioned lyon have said there's no buy back clause, as those don't exist in france....so this is most likely all talk.

best bet would be to sign someone in jan, make a big move in the summer and choose from the 2 (benzema and the january forward) which one will stay with the summer signing. if a mariano return were possible, i can bet the club won't sign any summer cf and just let mariano play the "morata" role on the bench

if we don't sign a striker in january, then a big cf summer move and benzema coming off the bench isn't too bad. he'll be more motivated, and this might surprise people, but i don't think he'd be too unhappy, he definitely doesn't want to leave madrid, and he can still get minutes. he'll be an excellent bench player to have, he'd done well in the past when coming off the bench.....now if we get some ridiculous 50 million type offer, that's another story
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by futbol_bill on Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:19 pm

I totally disagree with you Tito.

First off there won't be much available in January. I do hope we sign someone, essentially an upgrade on Mayoral. But to expect the new signing to force Benz out of lineup is just wishful hoping with Zidane still involved.

Secondly, as you have said many times we want bench players who challenge the starters. And if we succeed in these backup signings, you have to play the backup not just park him on the bench. For that reason we do need 2 new signings. Likewise we will need 2 for the other forward spot once Ronadlo (as well as Bale goes) (I only mention 2 forwards as I think it's pretty obvious Zidane is going to continue with an AM (either Isco or Asensio) plus the three CMs.

I didn't know about the no buy back option when I read the article yesterday. Actually initially I thought it  was a straight sale to Lyon, but after Nick started talking about it, I thought somewhere in this forum it was mentioned a buyback. I assume then that the article was simply saying club was impressed with his performances thus far (and I would assume equally for Morata, but as Hala said that ship has sailed) and would go after him next summer. I sure it would be for the backup spot. But I accept Nick's skepticism as it wasn't a much publicized story.

I guess bottom line is I'm not buying into this "not Madrid quality".

The facts are we have a totally useless set of forwards;
(Benz - a striker who can't come anywhere close to scoring and supposedly his effective? overall play (which all I see is him standing in the middle of the field with a 360 panoramic view of game),
Bale - ineffective for the 10 games a year he does play,
Ronaldo - our only hope, but he is rapidly reaching the point of being very average,
Mayoral - who never should have been on this club and
Lucas who is a versatile squad player at best)
and we need to replace all of them if not this January / next summer and possibly the summer after.

But there are few options available, so even thought they may not be the best long term options, they will need to be an improvement over what we already have.
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by vanDEEZ on Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:38 pm

It would be really convenient if this whole Chinese investment into AC Milan didn't work out. Andre Silva would be a great compromise buy this winter, if we could pry him away after recently joining.

Wouldn't be cup-tied, Ronaldo loves playing with him, definitely has the technical ability, and can't be worse than Benzema.

If we have to wait until summer we might as well delay this conversation. So much can happen in 6 months- just look at Mbappe, he wasn't on our radar (as a top target anyways) at this point last season, but 6 months completely changed that.
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:50 pm

the thing is, even if you sign someone this winter, he wont bench benzema, that's not happening.

The big games, in la liga and in CL, benzema will start. Zidane has protected him way too much, and he will continue to do so.

It's gotten to a point where we have to outright sign someone for a lot of money, and who has a very high reputation, so that he is forced into the line up.

If not, then you are betting on us signing someone in january, that guy scoring left and right with the small minutes he has, and playing so overwhelmingly good while benzema keep sucking (which is likely) that we have no choice but to play him.

how likely is that? i doubt it

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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by Turok_TTZ on Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:17 am

m'bappe is not even 20 years old top kek you lowly lot never cease to amuse me. expecting an 18 year to play like a 25-27 prime forward...
He may be a fine wine but that wine needs to age first.

Werner and Dolberg interest me slightly. only slightly. I don't think they're ready for us.

icardi and strong character did i read that corrrectly? icardi and strong character do not belong in the same sentence. dude's a proper *bleep*. pass. I thought we were above such players?

the wanking over harry kane never stops to surprise me. we made him look good, not the other way around. and his price is at a point where only psg could match such a figure. forget about him.

Forget morata his ship has sailed, I'm more interested in Mariano and Vinicius Jr. especially the latter. better he be brought sooner rather than later. I've liked what I saw from Mariano during his time here and in Lyon. I don't see the harm in giving him the reigns. I have an idea for another striker who has more goals than both but i dont think he is quite ready for this level yet. andre silva is a good mention but will milan sell? top kek at bellotti... meh im open to that idea.

having said that. a bit soon to give up on what we have. just grit your teeth, its gonna get worse before better and we're not gonna change shit until next july. I've seen darker days.
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by titosantill on Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:46 pm

@futbol_bill, thats what i said, you can't sign someone to bench him in jan, its not possible. the jan signing is because the squad is thin, bale keeps getting injured just by getting up for breakfast, and benzema's form is in a rot. a jan move is just to cover up the cracks that we left open in the summer due to over confidence....in the summer we can go for a solid buy (hopefully) mariano is out of the question, even if it where possible, he'd come here and he'll just get benched and end up leaving again.
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by titosantill on Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:55 pm

@turok, have you seen vinicius play? cos if he comes here only to warm the bench so benzema doesn't yet again have any competition as has been the case, that's not going to serve any purpose at all whatsoever. mariano is practically out of the question if we go by what lyon has said.....and even for him, if we don't own any of his rights i doubt he'll want a return, if he's starting for lyon, and then comes over here to be a bench warmer for benzema regardless of form......footballers aren't stupid

i don't mind vinicius coming if we already have two center forwards, then the risk isn't that big. but if we have only one, and all of a sudden zidane feels he can't trust vinicius, that means us having to put all our eggs in benzema's "link ups" all over again, and hope cristiano can carry us to the finish line...way too risky.
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by titosantill on Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:00 pm

i'm not even too sold on bringing someone in jan, cos my fear is then the club will decide not to sign a permanent cf in the summer, and have the jan back up be benzema's back up for life, only to spend 500 million on yet another attacking midfielder or central midfielder, like we don't have enough of those already.

yes i want to paper the cracks, no matter how we look at it the squad is thin, especially up front and in terms of goals. but i fear it will just end up being a case of putting a bandage on someone who requires surgery
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by futbol_bill on Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:11 pm

Tito, you obviously are assuming Bale and Benz will be with us next season!

You may be right given Zidane clearly in charge and his devotion to Benz.

But if so, god help us. We can forget about being a top club. I think I just as well with have to turn in my socio badge!
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by titosantill on Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:35 pm

i assumed they would not have been here after carlo left. but they're here now, i've always said we have never done things the orthodox way at madrid. as nick mentioned, not spending big money outright on some dude who you have no excuse but to include in the line up (a forward) means those two will be here next summer. so if mariano was possible, (which he isn't according to lyon) then that simply means it will be the bbc next summer again, and a big money move for a midfielder

to be honest, depending on how the season ends, i have a gut feeling they will still be here next summer.....i hope we have a successful season, but i also hope zidane can do away with what i call his 'player conscience' and be ruthless to know we either have to move on, or have at least one of them as a bench player (which will most likely be benzema, cos i can't see a player like bale stooping down for such a role)
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by futbol_bill on Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:55 pm

You have now moved into the category of hopelessly wishful thinking re a recovery this season, along with Turok!

If you guys are right, ie Zidane manages to have some success this season, then perhaps Benz and Bale could stay,

but if not the uproar against Flo and Zidane to get rid of those two will be tremendous. I'm not the only one in Bernabeu booing every time Benz comes onto the field.
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by titosantill on Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:07 pm

ofcourse i'm wishing for a recovery. i'm a fan aren't i? why would i want my team to lose and then watch scums like barcelona achieve more glory? we don't know what would happen, you never can predict with madrid. when we ended up trophyless under carlo i expected moves to be made then, they weren't. but now's a different time, everyone is older. i expect moves to be made in summer, my thing is we just can't predict anything......and we can't expect the most normal thing to happen cos we'll just end up kicking our teeths when the club signs a cmf or amf for 800 million, and then promotes dani gomez from castilla to be benzema's back up yet again next year

i hope zidane and flo can do the most sensible thing in the summer, and not wait till last minute to start tying things together. but we have a season to conclude first
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by futbol_bill on Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:20 pm

well, I will leave it at that. I too hope for a recovery but I have severe doubts. It does however explain our different points of view as to our next 9 (or in my case, our next set of forwards).

This thread was created with the intent of who is the next number 9, post Benz, Bale and even Ronaldo.

Note: the day after I commented on Madrid's interest in reacquiring Mariano, there were new stories about Vinicius coming to Madrid next summer. These of course are only someone's opinion and certainly not substantiated, but if true, they would have to be for the backup positions.

I know I'm a little persistent on this, but as I see it, the club has been moving in the right direction to replace aging players in all areas except the forwards. If they do, get rid of all of them (Benz, Bale, Mayoral, Lucas, and perhaps Ronaldo a year later), then I feel our future is bright. Without it, It looks very dark to me!
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:27 pm

VINicius lol the kid has not even won a starting role for flamengo but he is going to come here next summer? He needs to stay there for another year at least

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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

Post by titosantill on Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:30 pm

i'm not exactly sure what the debate is here. i've been up for a new 9 since after la decima, i wanted suarez at that point. i'm up for a new cf now, my point is that its not going to be as straight froward as it should be....my fear is about the club signing players whose role is just to ensure benzema remains an undisputed starter. that was my fear when we signed chicharito, morata (who actually earned his buy out), and mariano. i don't think the club will get rid of bale mayoral lucas benzema if they don't have replacements lined up

and the BIGGEST question is whether zidane is open to being ruthless and making such a leap
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Re: Our next number 9 - thread

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