Is Cristiano the best European player ever?

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:57 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:in terms of achievements, trophies, goals scored, titles etc... CR is the best in european football imo. That being said, trophies and number are sometimes a factor of the team, position and the era you played in. How is he greatness of Zidane quantified vs the greatness of Ronaldo?

CR is not just in the conversation, he has some serious arguments for being the top euro player ever, even ahead of Cruyff.


Cruyff has every bit of of the achievements that Ronaldo has and he's much more talented footballer.

If Cruyff had a shit career in terms of honors you might have a case but that's not the reality here.

Ronaldo is fantastic, probably the best goalscorer i have ever seen but discussions like these severely underrate players of years gone by unless they are called Maradona or Pele.

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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:04 am

well the very point of having these discussions is actually to put those players on the table and to talk about them. I adjust as open to hear arguments for and against.

What luca said about trophies is very true, they are team achievements and playing for teams like Madrid or Barca certainly help in that regards.

What's left is the eye test, appreciation of their performances in big games, the perceived talent, a lot of things that can't be measured.
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Post by BORUSSIA!! Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:10 am

the guy isn't even better than henry. he's nowhere near the best european ever.

Ronaldo is fantastic, probably the best goalscorer i have ever seen but discussions like these severely underrate players of years gone by unless they are called Maradona or Pele.

how is he the the best goal scorer ever. there have been far better goal scorers.

i know it's the only thing he's ever been "good" at. but usually only tap ins and penalties stat padding against bad teams when the game is 3 goals up to madrid with the most expensive team ever feeding him 200 chances.

messi has a better goal scoring record, better conversion rate and doesn't play as a serial goal poacher (goes deep often cause he's a playmaker too) and isn't selfish and hog every chance.

if messi had ronaldo's attitude and commitment to goal scoring at all costs, he would get over 100 goals per season.


Last edited by BORUSSIA!! on Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:55 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:34 am

Not even better than Henry. This forum rofl
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Post by Mr Nick09 Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:41 am

BORUSSIA!! wrote:the guy isn't even better than henry. he's nowhere near the best european ever.

Ronaldo is fantastic, probably the best goalscorer i have ever seen but discussions like these severely underrate players of years gone by unless they are called Maradona or Pele.

how is he the the best goal scorer ever. there have been far better goal scorers.

i know it's the only thing he's ever been "good" at. but usually only tap ins and penalties stat padding against bad teams when the game is 3 goals up to madrid with the best team ever feeding him 200 chances.

messi has a better goal scoring record, better conversion rate and doesn't play as a serial goal poacher (goes deep often cause he's a playmaker too) and isn't selfish and hog every chance.

if messi had ronaldo's attitude and commitment to goal scoring at all costs, he would get over 100 goals per season.
your post does not make sense.

you claim that henry is better, then Messi has a better goal scoring record... doesn't CR also has a better scoring record than Henry? lol, you contradict yourself in your own post, with your own arguments.

I love henry, but in the conversation of Europe greatest ever, he does not belong, he was close, he is not even top 10.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:41 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Not even better than Henry. This forum rofl


In fairness nobody else here thinks that. Although i will say one thing about that, people have forgotten how good Henry was tbh.

At his best only really Messi combines that level of speed, skill, technique and finishing from todays players. But he wasn't as consistent as Ronaldo's career has been.
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Post by BORUSSIA!! Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:47 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:
BORUSSIA!! wrote:the guy isn't even better than henry. he's nowhere near the best european ever.

Ronaldo is fantastic, probably the best goalscorer i have ever seen but discussions like these severely underrate players of years gone by unless they are called Maradona or Pele.

how is he the the best goal scorer ever. there have been far better goal scorers.

i know it's the only thing he's ever been "good" at. but usually only tap ins and penalties stat padding against bad teams when the game is 3 goals up to madrid with the most expensive team ever feeding him 200 chances.

messi has a better goal scoring record, better conversion rate and doesn't play as a serial goal poacher (goes deep often cause he's a playmaker too) and isn't selfish and hog every chance.

if messi had ronaldo's attitude and commitment to goal scoring at all costs, he would get over 100 goals per season.
your post does not make sense.

you claim that henry is better, then Messi has a better goal scoring record... doesn't CR also has a better scoring record than Henry? lol, you contradict yourself in your own post, with your own arguments.

I love henry, but in the conversation of Europe greatest ever, he does not belong, he was close, he is not even top 10.


no your understanding is just bad.

i'm stating two different things here. i'm saying henry is a better player than cr7 all round, nothing to do with goal scoring.

and on pure goal scoring terms, messi is a better goal scorer, not just a better player.


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Post by Luca Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:51 am

For the record, I think there are much more arguments in favour of Ronaldo rather than against, because of how great his career has been.

But how do you compare him with a player who plays further from goal? Can it even be done?

This is my problem with best player ever arguments. They really ought to be best forward, or best attacker but best player is tough

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Post by Socur Toxanarosa Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:28 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:but talent without achievements does not matter, so how do you find/define the balance?


It does, this is not an individual sport, not even close. Most of his titles came when he had the best team in the world (07/08 United and current Madrid). These super teams belongs to modern football, it was much harder back then to win things consistently because the competition was much more balanced.

Ronaldo biggest strenght is his consistency and dedication, basically injury free in all of his career, so while other players reached higher peaks and were close to be a 10/10 player during 1, 2 or 3 seasons, Ronaldo has been a 8~9/10 for more than a decade.
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Post by Unique Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:34 am

Ronaldo is not even the best player to play in England so the thread is pointles :coffee:
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Post by Interman Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:22 am

He is the best goalscorer for sure.

But talentwise, Id put Cruyf, Zidane and Laudrup over this guy anyday.


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Post by Valkyrja Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:46 am

He's not even the best European player of his generation lol. Xavi, Iniesta and Modric are far superior footballers who won just as much if not more in the case of the 2 Spaniards.

Does anyone really believe he's the best player in this Madrid team ? Modric has easily been our best and most consistent performer since 2013.
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Post by Harmonica Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:35 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:one would argue that CR played great for portugal in the euros and was key in them getting to the finals. And you can hardly compare the quality of both teams, muller was playing with monster in his team. This portuguese squad is pretty weak all things considered
One can argue that Earth is flat, but it's still bollocks. Portugal won Euro's with midfield and defense, Cronaldo showed very low quality, which just shows how strong Portugal was. Not to mention how bad Cronaldo was last season when Uefa Refdrid won the double, he won the titles with just as monster teams, but with better refs and officials than Müller did.

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/247/Tournaments/124/Seasons/4246/Stages/8996/PlayerStatistics/International-European-Championship-2016
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Post by Valkyrja Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:38 pm

Regardless of what CR has done in his career so far, what players won big time trophies playing in average teams ? It is impossible even for an extraterestrial talent like Messi to do that.
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Post by Harmonica Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:40 pm

And as for Cruyff. Müller was to Cruyff what Cronaldo is to Messi, a goal scorer to a complete player who did everything. Which puts also Cruyff ahead of Cronaldo. And Cruyff also showed great quality in World Cup.

Zidane I can't say as he's one of the most overrated players also. His WC06 Golden Ball was a bad joke. Zidane was a complete player however which might put him ahead of Cronaldo.
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Post by BarcaLearning Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:38 pm

Interesting to see different views. Hes probably still underrated though by some. But most ppl know and say that talent wise hes not among the best, but his hardwork and some of his physical abilities, scoring abilities are incredible, and probably the best ever. I dont think those greats in the past could do some of the physical things he does. Focusing on football talent though, hes still amazing, but not among the best.

Another way of looking at it though is imagine if Messi didnt exist, Ronaldo would probably win 10 straight Ballon D'ors and Real to even more titles Razz

Overall speaking, and goals weight a lot in that, for European he definitely is right up there.

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Post by Valkyrja Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:42 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:Interesting to see different views. Hes probably still underrated though by some. But most ppl know and say that talent wise hes not among the best, but his hardwork and some of his physical abilities, scoring abilities are incredible, and probably the best ever. I dont think those greats in the past could do some of the physical things he does. Focusing on football talent though, hes still amazing, but not among the best.

Another way of looking at it though is imagine if Messi didnt exist, Ronaldo would probably win 10 straight Ballon D'ors and Real to even more titles Razz

Overall speaking, and goals weight a lot in that, for European he definitely is right up there.



he definitely wouldn't imo. he wouldn't be anywhere near as motivated or as overhyped by the press if not for his imaginary competition with Messi.
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Post by terrance511 Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:08 pm

different time, different team, different advantage bla bla,

then why not just looks at the only metric for best player exist then and now, ballon dor.

4 +1 coming, with messi as rival in the same period. nuff said.
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Post by futbol Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:06 pm

Platini, Xavi and Cruyff are the top 3 obviously.

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Post by Doc Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:12 am

Seriously, best player ever is such a broad term since we are absolutely disregarding goal keepers (Rwo would have appreciated this) and defenders are barely getting mention. He'll definitely be part of the best ever list but to call him THE best, nah, way too many legendary players to just over look.
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Post by Socur Toxanarosa Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:11 am

terrance511 wrote:different time, different team, different advantage bla bla,

then why not just looks at the only metric for best player exist then and now, ballon dor.

4 +1 coming, with messi as rival in the same period. nuff said.


Just like the Oscars are the only "metric" for best movies, laughable.
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Post by terrance511 Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:32 pm

Socur Toxanarosa wrote:
terrance511 wrote:different time, different team, different advantage bla bla,

then why not just looks at the only metric for best player exist then and now, ballon dor.

4 +1 coming, with messi as rival in the same period. nuff said.


Just like the Oscars are the only "metric" for best movies, laughable.


ya, a movie that won 5 times oscar? that gotta be the best movie ever.
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