Apoel vs Real Madrid

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Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:37 pm

Second game in a row midfield and defence has been excellent, are we back???
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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:39 pm

I'm sure you already agree with me on this one, but we can't exactly be "back" without our attack, and I'm afraid that one is not coming back.

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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:43 pm

Even if they dont score, I am more happy with the fact Modric, Kroos, Carvajal have improved from what they played like before. They are arguably the most important players in the team
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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by The Demon of Carthage on Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:51 pm

Totally agree. Carvajal looked a bit off at the beginning of the season, but ever since he came back from the heart infection, he has been looking quite good and more like his former self.

As for Modric and Kroos, they sometimes go through some rough patches, but they always come back to show you why they're widely perceived to be two of the best midfielders in the world.

I'm glad our defense and midfield are finally gaining back their form, but as long as our attack is underwhelming, it won't matter. We need to solve the problem with the trident up front. They're killing us.

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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by Doc on Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:53 pm

For starters, having Dani back has been huge for us. Him around and we got ourselves a right wing again and whatever early season off form he had seem to have gone away. Secondly, APOEL was playing dog poo football, really really hard to take anything concrete from this.

However, we got goals again which in theory should help those 2 with their confidence especially Ronaldo. Benzema probably is cursing wind he scored. Um, Asensio was bad. Not sure what happened over the 2 months but he really isn't the same sort of player that actually gave us confidence in him. Not casting him aside obviously but he had a bad match.

All in all, decent high scoring win and it's official, if we score 6 goals, we get to see Ceballos and Hernandez have playing time.

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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:07 pm

Definitely feels good to see the team winning. I mentioned in the last thread that the 4312 was not working anymore and I am not surprised to see that a changed helped the form and provided something new. I’ll watch the game to analyze things a bit more but at the same time APOEL is not very good so I won’t get excited.

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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:15 pm

We played a 442 today. The 4312 is a better line up. With the midfield and defence getting into form again, we are going to start winning, too bad the league is out of reach. Everyone celebrated Ronaldo's like his drought was weighing down on the team Laughing
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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:15 am

so real easy game, good victory, the things i like were the spacing and pressing up the pitch. APOEL are really poor they had no answer for that. having vasquez and asensio playing Ams helped because it felt like the team was constipated playing with 4 central players vs Atletico.

Carvajal makes a massive difference, he is so aggressive, it's awesome. Hope he can stay fit and away from those heart problems.

great goals from Benzema and CR, they played like they had something to prove and it came out well.

Knowing this team, they will probably win the CL again lol

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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:45 am

2 seasons ago we lost el clasico and destroyed some garbage team in ucl, i wasn't impressed, and adit and i had a mini argument over it. i felt the team just wasn't giving their all.

this time, i was extremely happy with the win despite it being apoel, cos obviously we need to go through, and cos i don't think our problem this season is a lack of motivation (unlike rafa's stint). very pleased with the win, and the players really needed the break.

the squad is very thin though, going into the winter break its a cause for concern, especially when bench players come on in these kind of games and can't run the score up even further. good result
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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by titosantill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:46 am

i was just going to talk about carvajal. i'm no doctor, but i wonder if his situation had anything to do with his form at the beginning of the season. guy is an energizer bunny, sometimes it gets the best of him, but its a huge positive, glad to have him back
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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:24 am

We need some scoring momentum and I hope this starts it.

One note: Isco is a bit of a ball stoppper. What I mean by that is that he likes to stop the flow of the action, which slows the game down, to dribble. His first instinct is not to move the ball quickly. I think this hurts the rhythm of our play at times. For all his tame play, Asensio actually moves the ball quickly.

My point is that when the ball moves quickly, it's hard for defenders to pick up runs and the strikers are thus more effective with their movement. If the ball stops and the defense has time to figure out the threats and the angles, it's easier to defend.

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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:37 am

yeah but even with his style we rekt atletico last year, juve in final, man you, barca... i see what you mean, and i think we are reaping the benefits of just playing open, free flowing.

one can say that no Casemiro helps as well, the guy despite how great he is defensively, he is useless on the ball when we try to build attacks.

again, change helps from time to time in order to break a down cycle

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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by Doc on Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:25 am

Don't think it has to do with Isco's style of play (he does tend to slow down a bit) since he has been objectively our best performing outfield player so far this season. We just buried our chances that we had a high chance of scoring from. I'm really hoping this is a catalyst for both CR and Benzema to get back form. More CR than Big Ben...

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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by Turok_TTZ on Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:31 am

I observe technique and action. It's nice to see Benz hasn't forgotten how to shoot the ball. Textbook stuff. The Kommander took longer but he ultimately returned to being our Kommander. I appreciate his assist to Benz.

It was only a matter of time before these two answer the skeptics. I trust this will reignite our campaign.
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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by Thimmy on Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:30 am

@Turok_TTZ wrote:I observe technique and action. It's nice to see Benz hasn't forgotten how to shoot the ball. Textbook stuff. The Kommander took longer but he ultimately returned to being our Kommander. I appreciate his assist to Benz.

It was only a matter of time before these two answer the skeptics. I trust this will reignite our campaign.


With all due respect, I don't think any of Benz' critics are that easily convinced that they were wrong Laughing

Ronaldo was scoring in the CL prior to APOEL. It's in the league that he's been misfiring.

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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:07 pm

Nothing frustrates me more than watching Asensio pass the ball back everytime he gets it. Lucas might not be everybody's cup of tea but at least he always takes players on even if it doesnt always go off.
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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by Cyborg on Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:52 pm

@halamadrid2 wrote:Nothing frustrates me more than watching Asensio pass the ball back everytime he gets it. Lucas might not be everybody's cup of tea but at least he always takes players on even if it doesnt always go off.


scratch

Comparing Asensio to Vasquez

Asensio great. Keeping the ball is ok with me.

Headless chicken and losing the ball isn't.

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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:52 pm

Isco is a wonderful player... best on the squad so far. I'm just thinking out loud.

Given how Isco likes to function and his tendencies... we should play him right near the box where those short dribbles and superb technique really shine as opposed to putting him in space where his technique and play are still special... but don't really lead to much because, at the end of it, he's not operating in a danger area. Too many times I see him get past 2 defenders in the midfield and then he still has 40 meters to go or he's near the corner flag.

It's a tough dilemna because you already have 2 strikers in the box so there's no room for a 3rd player. But Isco is a bit wasted in the areas he's asked to play right now and his style actually slows down our movement. What's the solution? I have no idea. If Ronaldo and Benzema actually moved like they did last year and covered more ground, we'd be great. But this year, they're like traffic cones (especially Benzema).

I really really really think it's time to move Benzema for a faster, more active striker.

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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by halamadrid2 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:01 pm

I am the opposite I feel like we'd play much better if we moved Isco further down. His dribbling and ability to not lose the ball can be utilised better where we normally struggle to break the first line of defence. Kroos/Modric rarely take players on with the ball, only Isco, Ceballos and Kovacic do and I think it could be beneficjal if we had at least one of them playing as the midfield 3. That too lets Asensio play the Isco role just behind the strikers where he is at best hmm
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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by Doc on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:07 pm

I'm with Sports, think it would be better for Isco to be further up the field than behind. We actually have 2 midfielders who can break the 1st line easily but sadly Kova is still recovering and Ceballos can only appear when we are up 6-0.


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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:07 pm

Fyi, isco plays the exact same role with NT and he has been the one that ignites the team. Basically the team goes extremely well when he’s playing and seems to struggle a bit when he’s not. His position is a little more forward as he has Iniesta, Busquets and Thiago or Koke behind him. And his backup is Asensio! The only real difference IMO is both Iniesta and Thiago are capable of the runs you are saying Kroos and Modric aren’t doing. And before you talk about possession game, sure that’s still there, but with Lopetegui the direct attack is used more often primarily thru Isco and fullbacks. The other difference is rather than two forwards, Spain has Silva on other side along with single CF.

My point of this comparison, IMO, the problem still lies with our forwards and their very limited movement.

But I also accept as Nick has stated that shaking up the lineup is good especially with how the team has been going. I just would like to see some shakeup with the forwards. Given that the three backups, are always injured Bale, the kid with lost confidence Majoral and the always working hard but generally ineffective Lucas, perhaps the best shakeup is play only one forward and try 2 AMs in addition to the three CMs.
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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:13 pm

There is also a lot more fluidity to the transition out of the défense to the more advanced midfielders when it’s Kroos because he is a far more intelligent player on the ball than Casemiro and just a much superior passer and chain mover.

If you compare to Casemiro, players prefer to pass back to Ramos than to trust him to make a decision with the ball. Just saying, since Casemiro can’t be criticized...

But Casemiro is far better off the ball too, we all know that. So you want the physical presence of Casemiro with his magic no yellow ability + kroos brain and passing. Dreams

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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by futbol_bill on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:40 pm

On the subject of dreams, Nick, You know who is better, now, than Casemiro? Illarra!!! I know that ship has sailed, but he is playing now the way both of us thought at one time when he came to Madrid. At first, I thought it was just because of smaller club, less pressure, home team etc. but he is being consistently good. Almost a shoe in for backup to Busquets on NT.
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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by sportsczy on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:45 pm

Ideally, when Isco drops out, Kroos should be making forward runs... he has been recently so that adjustment has been made.  The problem is that Kroos is quasi useless as a finisher.  So it's not really that threatening.  

I feel that for all his individual brilliance, Isco's impact is really minimal as a result of his teammates not being in form or not having the capacity to project themselves forward.  

There are three solutions...  
1-  Get a better striker with pace and polivalence
2-  Get a CM that is a legit attacking threat
3-  Move Isco to the right so that he's interacting with Carvajal and Modric (better imo) as opposed to Marcelo and Kroos.  Marcelo is best with the ball at his feet, not cutting...  while Kroos isn't a threat despite trying to act like one.

Of course, the problem with moving Isco to the right is that you're taking away his ability to be a scorer since he's right footed.


Last edited by sportsczy on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Apoel vs Real Madrid

Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:45 pm

i would not trust Illarra in front of my defense lol... and as far as him playing better than casemiro, i would not agree either

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