Goalkeeper search continues

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:48 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:It’s actually a strategy Madrid have been using lately to sign Spanish players. Instead of paying for the release clause they negotiate with the club and offer a bit more. Nothing new since we did it for Asensio, Theo, Ceballos. Paying a release clause n Spain is seen as hostile so we sit down with the clubs, offer more and of course they take it


Please, can you look up and tell me who the last player was Athletic actually sold?

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by vanDEEZ on Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:53 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:It’s actually a strategy Madrid have been using lately to sign Spanish players. Instead of paying for the release clause they negotiate with the club and offer a bit more. Nothing new since we did it for Asensio, Theo, Ceballos. Paying a release clause n Spain is seen as hostile so we sit down with the clubs, offer more and of course they take it


Please, can you look up and tell me who the last player was Athletic actually sold?


Lmao, Ander Herrera. That's my point, they aren't opposed to letting players go for free- we see that almost every season almost with Bilbao, what is the problem with agreeing with the player to come to Madrid in the summer, wait 6 months and he is free?

Paying 20 million now, is surely more expensive than a perceived increase in wages on his contract in order beat other clubs to his contract.
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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by vanDEEZ on Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:54 pm

Basically, I really just don't understand the rush and I don't buy into the narrative that we need to rush this or other clubs will come in.
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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by rincon on Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:15 pm

They didn't sell Ander Herrera. United paid his release clause iirc. They really never agree to sell, its either release clause or free. That was Hans' point. The didn't sell us Llorente or Bayern Javi Martinez either. Its a very particular club.
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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:25 pm

@vanDEEZ wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:It’s actually a strategy Madrid have been using lately to sign Spanish players. Instead of paying for the release clause they negotiate with the club and offer a bit more. Nothing new since we did it for Asensio, Theo, Ceballos. Paying a release clause n Spain is seen as hostile so we sit down with the clubs, offer more and of course they take it


Please, can you look up and tell me who the last player was Athletic actually sold?


Lmao, Ander Herrera.


No. They didn't sell Herrera, and they didn't sell Javi Martinez in 2012. Both bought themselves out.
The last player they sold was Aduriz to Mallorca in 2008.
That's right. Not one player sold in a whole decade.
They don't sell players. They don't actually partake in the transfer market.

That's why the story is 100% BS. Unless you believe they'll change their policy this winter for Real Madrid, because they like you so much.

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by halamadrid2 on Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:34 pm

Perez is respected around LaLiga, when he calls they get a private jet ready.

Na seriously, If those guys had to buy themselves out then that's on your transfer department for not negotiating properly. We've never under current Perez required a player to buy himself out, we've always made it work. If Kepa wants to come, Perez will reach an agreement amicably with their President
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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by sportsczy on Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:35 pm

I don't think you understand... it's a matter of POLICY with the current Athletico management that they don't sell players. Period. So we either trigger the release clause (which becomes very expensive since I believe we need to add the taxes Athletico would owe on top of the clause) or no dealio.

They're not going to change how they do business for us. We can buy Kepa no problem. But it's going to have to be via triggering the release clause.

That's why Hans is saying the article is BS... they're saying we're going to transact in a way that Athletico would never accept.

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by futbol_bill on Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:44 pm

Who is Athletico? We are to assume you are referring to Bilbao Athletic?
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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:01 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
@vanDEEZ wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:


Please, can you look up and tell me who the last player was Athletic actually sold?


Lmao, Ander Herrera.


No. They didn't sell Herrera, and they didn't sell Javi Martinez in 2012. Both bought themselves out.
The last player they sold was Aduriz to Mallorca in 2008.
That's right. Not one player sold in a whole decade.
They don't sell players. They don't actually partake in the transfer market.

That's why the story is 100% BS. Unless you believe they'll change their policy this winter for Real Madrid, because they like you so much.
it’s a good observation. They are not a club sell so but the report is only about what Madrid plan to do not what Athletic is willing to accept.

They are super hostile anyway so there is a chance they refuse to negotiate. So if they do we can either activate the clause and force the transfer or wait till the summer which is seemingly what we do not want to do.

This cas is interesting because if athletic do not take our money and fail to extend his contract, they end up with nothing.

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:16 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:the report is only about what Madrid plan to do not what Athletic is willing to accept.

They are super hostile anyway so there is a chance they refuse to negotiate.  So if they do we can either activate the clause and force the transfer or wait till the summer which is seemingly what we do not want to do.

This cas is interesting because if athletic do not take our money and fail to extend his contract, they end up with nothing.


I don't claim that it's BS that Real want Kepa or whatever. I have no idea.
But everyone in Spain should know Bilbao don't sell, Marca should know, and certainly Real's transfer department knows.

The options are as you say, trigger the clause or wait until the contract is up, and I think history suggests that Bilbao know very well their policy means financial losses for them, which they are prepared to take.
They'll lose Kepa on a free, just like Llorente or any other player who left Bilbao in the last 9 years, besides Herrera and Martinez.

Personally, I don't actually believe players who start regularly ever move in winter, I think such rumours are BS by default.

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:32 pm

@sportsczy wrote:So we either trigger the release clause (which becomes very expensive since I believe we need to add the taxes Athletico would owe on top of the clause) or no dealio.


Wasn't that tax problem sorted out somehow? I remember it was a big question mark over our Javi deal back ten, took weeks to complete with out lawyers trying to find a way, because it was some legal grey area whether the player would owe income tax on the money we'd give him to buy himself out.
I think we just went ahead and did it anyway hoping it wouldn't go before a court or something. I think we strongarmed the city of Bilbao somehow lmao.

I think I read that since, there has been some ruling that this money would be considered capital gains instead of income or something? And then the taxes don't apply like that?

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:02 pm

Remember there are two processes, the player going up to the league to pay his own clause flat or a club triggering a clause which generates additional tax, that you can get back anyway.

When we signed Illarra, La Real had us trigger the release clause, we would likely do the same here.

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by futbol_bill on Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:02 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:

This cas is interesting because if athletic do not take our money and fail to extend his contract, they end up with nothing.


That’s exactly what happened with Llorente plus they benched him in final months

@Hapless_Hans wrote:

I think I read that since, there has been some ruling that this money would be considered capital gains instead of income or something? And then the taxes don't apply like that?


No tax is applicable if bid is declared hostile. In the cases of Javi and Herrera, it was the player paying the fée not a club.

But I agree with you that this story is either BS or debatable as it doesn’t make sense for anyone involved. Next summer yes but not now. I suspect this is Madrid making an offer, not hostile to let Bilbao know they can get something for him now rather than nothing in summer. resolution will likely be IMO is Madrid agreeing to pay something in summer.
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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by Hapless_Hans on Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:22 pm

Is he not free in summer anyway?

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by futbol_bill on Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:39 pm

Yes but Flo ends up being amicable with Bilbao by giving them something. This story is also about letting Kepa know Madrid wants him
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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by vanDEEZ on Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:54 pm



Thought I would post this. To be honest, I think I have given Kepa more credit than he deserves because he's young, plays for the Spanish national team, and people on this forum have rated him. I think a lot of those factors make me want to believe he is a great keeper, but from what I have physically watched (a few Bilbao matches and Spain U-21) plus this highlight scouting video- he looks so average. His handling looks like crap- so many spilled saves that he was lucky didn't turn into goals. Reflexes are decent, but I don't feel he is anywhere near the class of De Gea, Courtois, Keylor, or even Donnarumma to name a few, and the only reason we are going for him is because he is Spanish and will be cheap/free hopefully.

No amount of techno/drum and bass music can make him look outstanding to me.

This feels very reminiscent of Illarramendi.

I hope I am wrong, but I'm officially off the Kepa bandwagon, he can be backup, but nothing more.
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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by sportsczy on Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:11 pm

So according to Marca, we're still trying to sign Courtois too regardless of Kepa coming Laughing

Starting XI v PSG: Kepa, Keylor, Casilla, De Gea, Donnaruma, Buffon, Van Der Saar, Kahn, Oblak, Ter Stegen and Casillas

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by Hapless_Hans on Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:20 pm

@vanDEEZ wrote:

Thought I would post this. To be honest, I think I have given Kepa more credit than he deserves because he's young, plays for the Spanish national team, and people on this forum have rated him. I think a lot of those factors make me want to believe he is a great keeper, but from what I have physically watched (a few Bilbao matches and Spain U-21) plus this highlight scouting video- he looks so average. His handling looks like crap- so many spilled saves that he was lucky didn't turn into goals. Reflexes are decent, but I don't feel he is anywhere near the class of De Gea, Courtois, Keylor, or even Donnarumma to name a few, and the only reason we are going for him is because he is Spanish and will be cheap/free hopefully.

No amount of techno/drum and bass music can make him look outstanding to me.

This feels very reminiscent of Illarramendi.

I hope I am wrong, but I'm officially off the Kepa bandwagon, he can be backup, but nothing more.


It makes as little sense to be disappointed with a player based on a YT clip as it does to hype him based on a YT clip

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by vanDEEZ on Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:38 pm

Did I say my opinion was based purely on 1 clip? This is just further info that a channel known for making pretty decent scouting videos had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to string together a collection of saves that aren't impressive.

The video was for people that maybe haven't watched him with Bilbao or Spain.
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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:32 am

im no a GK expert, but having watched young De Gea, young Tee Stegen, young Courtois, i have an idea of what to expect. I do not see the same level of quality with Kepa. Even more so, i see a lack of personality in him... im not a fan.

From Madrid point of view, i'm 100% sure there is someone with pull in Madrid that is lobbying everyday to sign Kepa.

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by sportsczy on Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:49 am

Maybe it's the media pushing for a Kepa signing... happened plenty of times before.

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by Mr Nick09 on Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:58 am

think it's the goalkeeping coach, Lopis.

signing Kepa is not glamorous enough for the Barca & AS of this world to throw a party around his name

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:23 pm

left out of Athletic team for the Bsque derby

when it smells like a transfer and walks like a transfer...

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by Doc on Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:39 pm

Well, Navas has shown that we really really REALLY do not need a new keeper right now.

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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by guest7 on Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:40 pm

It's shocking Doc, we still can't figure out we need a new striker
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Re: Goalkeeper search continues

Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:43 pm

we need to get rid of benzema more than Navas, that's pretty clear

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